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The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Hammar wrote: »
    Lemlin,Celt262
    id agree with many of your points,and maybe im a bit too optimistic about the current situation in Cavan football.
    I was reading the Cavan GAABoard thread,and there was a comment from a Limerick view that
    "The Cavan defence was, by far, the most porous Limerick have come up against this year".
    What do ye reckon the solution is??



    Martin Cahill Dermot Sheridan ??????

    John McCutcheon Alan Clarke Mark McKeever/Ronan Flanagan



    When you take Gunner and Michael H out of the equation,we are short of options big time.

    I can only think that there is a dearth of talent in the county. For example, its been years since we've had a decent full back despite trying a whole host of players out in the position.

    I think it does speak volumes though when Val and Terry are asking a player who's never played in the backline for his club in his life (Stephen Jordan) to try and do a job back there.

    Has anyone any suggestion of people they'd like to see tried? I can never understand why Darren Smith from Lavey has not been given at least a chance at IC level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Another poor result again yesterday. I actually think we're kidding ourselves and believing the hype if we think this panel are fit for Division 3 football. I only caught the news last night and realised that teams like Fermanagh and Roscommon are in Division 4. We'd struggle to beat those.

    What's the deal with home and away games as well? AFAIK Cavan have only played one home game so far, against Waterford. How can this be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Torlac


    Lemlin wrote: »
    I'm not sure it has. St Pat's has dropped off but Virginia has become a force at schools level. The U14 team won the Ulster schools championship at their grade last week and they won a couple of all-irelands there a few years back.

    To be fair its only recently St.Pats have looked anything like the teams of old. When i was there we didn't have any particularly strong teams and never got too far in any grades. And a few years later the Senior county team was going through its best phase in recent times. Senior players came from the vocational schools who had success at national level.

    The main difference was the club championship back then was way more competitive. The Geals, Bailieboro, Mullahoran and Gowna had some great battles and took most of the county positions between them.

    Like i said before i've been away from the scene for a while now so i can't comment on club status currently but any time i come back it seems the interest is not as intense as it used to be.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    Tbh there is still great interest and support, but I think it's untapped or hidden away until June these days.

    I still think Cavan would be in the top 5 counties for support and passion about gaelic football in Ireland. The only problem is the would be the worst footballers in those 5.

    Lets be honest it's been years since they've done anything of note, last time we looked like getting to an Ulster final we lost to flipping Antrim. Now they are probably reckoned to be better than us. Sad state of affairs.

    If we are ever rise again, we have some amount of support anyway. Mind you I havent been to a league game in years, I have no interest in it really, if it's not taken seriously by the teams and county boards why should we go out of pocket to see it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    DB10 wrote: »
    Tbh there is still great interest and support, but I think it's untapped or hidden away until June these days.

    I still think Cavan would be in the top 5 counties for support and passion about gaelic football in Ireland. The only problem is the would be the worst footballers in those 5.

    Lets be honest it's been years since they've done anything of note, last time we looked like getting to an Ulster final we lost to flipping Antrim. Now they are probably reckoned to be better than us. Sad state of affairs.

    If we are ever rise again, we have some amount of support anyway. Mind you I havent been to a league game in years, I have no interest in it really, if it's not taken seriously by the teams and county boards why should we go out of pocket to see it.

    Being in Ulster is a big problem for Cavan at both underage and senior level. We're the worst team in Ulster at senior level and have been for the past couple of seasons. The win against Fermanagh in 2009 seems to have been nothing more than a fluke result.

    If we were in Leinster, where football is far weaker and there are a good few weak counties, then our chances would be much stronger at all levels.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭blackbelt


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Being in Ulster is a big problem for Cavan at both underage and senior level. We're the worst team in Ulster at senior level and have been for the past couple of seasons. The win against Fermanagh in 2009 seems to have been nothing more than a fluke result.

    If we were in Leinster, where football is far weaker and there are a good few weak counties, then our chances would be much stronger at all levels.

    But in Leinster,how far do you think you could go?Cavan would be expected to beat the likes of Wicklow,Carlow and possibly Longford and be on par with Offaly,Westmeath.I think you are behind the likes of Wexford,Louth,Laois.While Leinsters top three ie Kildare,Meath and Dublin would comfortably win.

    No guarantee that you'd progress too much further but certainly you'd get more competitive games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    blackbelt wrote: »
    But in Leinster,how far do you think you could go?Cavan would be expected to beat the likes of Wicklow,Carlow and possibly Longford and be on par with Offaly,Westmeath.I think you are behind the likes of Wexford,Louth,Laois.While Leinsters top three ie Kildare,Meath and Dublin would comfortably win.

    No guarantee that you'd progress too much further but certainly you'd get more competitive games.

    Well, while I admit I don't rate the National Football league a hell of a lot in terms of results, I do think that a team's position in it generally reflects their ability e.g. Division 1 and 2 are definitely the top tier of footballing teams in the country while 3 and 4 are the lower tier.

    Therefore, if you compare Ulster and Leinster in terms of the Football League:

    Ulster is a province of 9 counties - 3 of these are in Division 1 of the National League (Armagh, Monaghan & Down). 4 are in Division 2 (Donegal, Tyrone, Derry & Antrim). 1 is in Division 3 (Cavan) and 1 is in Division 4 (Fermanagh).
    Leinster is a province of 12 footballing counties - only 1 of these is in Division 1 (Dublin). 3 are in Division 2 (Kildare, Laois & Meath). 4 are in Division 3 (Wexford, Offaly, Louth & Westmeath). 4 are in Division 4 (Wicklow, Longford, Carlow & Kilkenny).

    Nearly 80% of Ulster teams would be seen as being in the counrty's top tier of footballing sides.
    Only 33% of Leinster teams would be seen as being in the country's top tier of footballing sides.

    I'd agree with your point that Kildare, Meath or Dublin would beat Cavan comfortably. I'd also expect Laois (the other team in the top tier as per the National football league rankings) to beat Cavan. However, that still leaves 8 other counties that I think Cavan could beat on their day if they were in Leinster. As opposed to there being 7 of Ulster's 9 counties in the top 2 leagues of the NFL.

    Of course there is no guarantee as you say but there would be a far higher chance of Cavan progressing with 8 other weak teams in their draw as opposed to one.

    Being in Ulster is also a huge factor at underage level. Just look at the last decade of minor All-Irelands:

    2010: Tyrone
    2009: Armagh
    2008: Tyrone
    2005: Down
    2004: Tyrone
    2002: Derry
    2001: Tyrone

    7 of the last ten minor All-Irelands have been won by Ulster teams. If that doesn't show the level of competition in the province at underage level, then I don't know what does.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    We're better than Fermanagh though. They're gone to ****e, only 3 players from the starting team that beat us last year still on their panel....:eek:

    Most have quit due to poor management and treatment, the last I heard they lost a league game in the last minute when some guy missed a 14 yard free...:eek:

    They are probably the worst team about in Ulster now and in IC bar London and Kilkenny.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    Beat Donegal in U21 semi final 12 - 1-04

    Revenge for last years final....:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    DB10 wrote: »
    Beat Donegal in U21 semi final 12 - 1-04

    Revenge for last years final....:D

    Fantastic result last night all right. It'd be unbelievable if Cavan could win an U21 Ulster championship. Success is needed at underage level.

    Match report:
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/ulster-u21-championship-cavan-012-donegal-14-15124172.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭celt262


    Was a good team performance.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Well, while I admit I don't rate the National Football league a hell of a lot in terms of results, I do think that a team's position in it generally reflects their ability e.g. Division 1 and 2 are definitely the top tier of footballing teams in the country while 3 and 4 are the lower tier.

    Therefore, if you compare Ulster and Leinster in terms of the Football League:

    Ulster is a province of 9 counties - 3 of these are in Division 1 of the National League (Armagh, Monaghan & Down). 4 are in Division 2 (Donegal, Tyrone, Derry & Antrim). 1 is in Division 3 (Cavan) and 1 is in Division 4 (Fermanagh).
    Leinster is a province of 12 footballing counties - only 1 of these is in Division 1 (Dublin). 3 are in Division 2 (Kildare, Laois & Meath). 4 are in Division 3 (Wexford, Offaly, Louth & Westmeath). 4 are in Division 4 (Wicklow, Longford, Carlow & Kilkenny).

    Nearly 80% of Ulster teams would be seen as being in the counrty's top tier of footballing sides.
    Only 33% of Leinster teams would be seen as being in the country's top tier of footballing sides.

    I'd agree with your point that Kildare, Meath or Dublin would beat Cavan comfortably. I'd also expect Laois (the other team in the top tier as per the National football league rankings) to beat Cavan. However, that still leaves 8 other counties that I think Cavan could beat on their day if they were in Leinster. As opposed to there being 7 of Ulster's 9 counties in the top 2 leagues of the NFL.

    Of course there is no guarantee as you say but there would be a far higher chance of Cavan progressing with 8 other weak teams in their draw as opposed to one.

    Being in Ulster is also a huge factor at underage level. Just look at the last decade of minor All-Irelands:

    2010: Tyrone
    2009: Armagh
    2008: Tyrone
    2005: Down
    2004: Tyrone
    2002: Derry
    2001: Tyrone

    7 of the last ten minor All-Irelands have been won by Ulster teams. If that doesn't show the level of competition in the province at underage level, then I don't know what does.


    Ulster is definitley a stronger province, and the top teams tehre are far higher than the top teams in Leinster. But I think you under rate Cavans position within that, and even going by your stats on league positions, that will change this season with 2 Leinster counties going up from Div 3 and Antrim going the opposite way. It realistically is the 4 sides in Division 4 rather than the 8 you would think of, as I would rate Westmeath, Louth, Offaly and Wexford ahead of Cavan.

    Congrats on the U21 win though, it is great to see progress in some underage at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    bruschi wrote: »
    Ulster is definitley a stronger province, and the top teams tehre are far higher than the top teams in Leinster. But I think you under rate Cavans position within that, and even going by your stats on league positions, that will change this season with 2 Leinster counties going up from Div 3 and Antrim going the opposite way. It realistically is the 4 sides in Division 4 rather than the 8 you would think of, as I would rate Westmeath, Louth, Offaly and Wexford ahead of Cavan.

    Congrats on the U21 win though, it is great to see progress in some underage at least.

    Do you mean to say I overrate their position? You stated underrate but I think its overrate you mean.
    The league isn't over yet so I'd prefer to go on this year's standings. There are still 3 more games to go and all leagues are tight so anything could change.
    For example, you say Antrim are about to go out of Division 2 yet they are only 1 point below Sligo who could go down instead. You also fail to mention that Meath are bottom of Division 2, meaning there is just as much chance of a Leinster side leaving Division 2 as an Ulster side.

    As for the 4 teams rather than 8, I do think Cavan are capable of beating any of those four sides you've named on their day. Now, while I am admitting I don't put alot of thought into National league results in general, Cavan beat Offaly and Wexford last year. They also drew with Westmeath this year in Westmeath. The games in the League have all been very tight this year, with Cavan playing away from home in all games, showing IMO that, as I stated, Cavan are capable of matching any of those 8 sides on their day.

    In relation to the U21 progress, none has been made so far. Cavan reached the Ulster final last year so need to move forward now and win it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Do you mean to say I overrate their position? You stated underrate but I think its overrate you mean.
    The league isn't over yet so I'd prefer to go on this year's standings. There are still 3 more games to go and all leagues are tight so anything could change.
    For example, you say Antrim are about to go out of Division 2 yet they are only 1 point below Sligo who could go down instead. You also fail to mention that Meath are bottom of Division 2, meaning there is just as much chance of a Leinster side leaving Division 2 as an Ulster side.

    As for the 4 teams rather than 8, I do think Cavan are capable of beating any of those four sides you've named on their day. Now, while I am admitting I don't put alot of thought into National league results in general, Cavan beat Offaly and Wexford last year. They also drew with Westmeath this year in Westmeath. The games in the League have all been very tight this year, with Cavan playing away from home in all games, showing IMO that, as I stated, Cavan are capable of matching any of those 8 sides on their day.

    In relation to the U21 progress, none has been made so far. Cavan reached the Ulster final last year so need to move forward now and win it.

    yeah sorry, over rate. as you say though, regardless of who is up and down in the league, its not the best of barometers. Just ask Roscommon. I just think Cavan have been on the slide for a while now, whilst in a tough province, they havent made the progress of the likes of Antrim, and even Fermanagh were making great strides and they have gone to dirt now. As much as you feel Cavan could match sides in Leinster, the same can also be said for teams in Ulster. I wouldnt be fearful of Antrim fermanagh, Donegal, and even Derry are hit and miss and I'm sure you would relish a shot at Monaghan too, despite them having much better form. Its just Tyrone, Down, Armagh set the standards and have kept to a high level, and even Armagh have had blips too.

    as for the U21, getting back to a final is an achievement in itself. How many of last years finalists have made it back?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭celt262


    bruschi wrote: »

    as for the U21, getting back to a final is an achievement in itself. How many of last years finalists have made it back?

    I think there are 9 on the panel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Hammar


    Great win last night,after a disasterous weekend for the seniors,whereby every one of our relegation rivals won and we lost.
    The team that wanted to play football won in the end,we coped well after the first quarter of an hour with Donegals negative 13 man behind the ball tactics.
    It was a great team effort by all involved.
    Kevin Meehan was very good, as was,Michael Brady, Gearoid McKiernan,Barry Reily,Jack Brady and Niall McDermott,but in truth,they all deserve credit.
    Its good to have some positive posts on this thread for once :D


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,020 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Hammar wrote: »
    Great win last night,after a disasterous weekend for the seniors,whereby every one of our relegation rivals won and we lost.
    The team that wanted to play football won in the end,we coped well after the first quarter of an hour with Donegals negative 13 man behind the ball tactics.
    It was a great team effort by all involved.
    Kevin Meehan was very good, as was,Michael Brady, Gearoid McKiernan,Barry Reily,Jack Brady and Niall McDermott,but in truth,they all deserve credit.
    Its good to have some positive posts on this thread for once :D

    A win like that certainly makes it easier to post in here I would say. Hope they can continue it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Torlac


    who have the u-21's got next?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭Crash Bang Wall


    Tyrone play Down in a replay, the winner has Monaghan I think in the semis.

    Final provisionally set for this night 2 weeks, although no venue has been announced


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Tyrone play Down in a replay, the winner has Monaghan I think in the semis.

    Final provisionally set for this night 2 weeks, although no venue has been announced

    Tyrone won at the third attempt last night.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/12918407.stm

    Tyrone play Monaghan next Wednesday. I'm expecting a Tyrone/Cavan final and a very tough game for Cavan.

    This Tyrone team are well drilled and used to very big games. They were minor All-Ireland champions in 2008 and 2010. The Cavan panel has no experience like that.

    Tyrone went six points behind last night and still had the experience to come back.

    There seems to be a big push to get people to the Louth game at the weekend. First time ever I've seen a big flashing sign on the N3 advertising a League game.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭blackbelt


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Tyrone won at the third attempt last night.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/12918407.stm

    Tyrone play Monaghan next Wednesday. I'm expecting a Tyrone/Cavan final and a very tough game for Cavan.

    This Tyrone team are well drilled and used to very big games. They were minor All-Ireland champions in 2008 and 2010. The Cavan panel has no experience like that.

    Tyrone went six points behind last night and still had the experience to come back.

    There seems to be a big push to get people to the Louth game at the weekend. First time ever I've seen a big flashing sign on the N3 advertising a League game.

    Could it be that any of the u-21s could be used with the seniors for the league game on Sunday?Afterall,Cavan are in a relegation dogfight so with the under 21s doing well there must be a drive to get more fans behind the footballers which seems to have been lacking these last few years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭celt262


    blackbelt wrote: »
    Could it be that any of the u-21s could be used with the seniors for the league game on Sunday?Afterall,Cavan are in a relegation dogfight so with the under 21s doing well there must be a drive to get more fans behind the footballers which seems to have been lacking these last few years.


    Game is Saturday just in case you are thinking of going.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Good win last night. Heard the lads weren't great but a win is a win. Fate is in our own hands now. Beat Tipp and we stay in Division 3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭celt262


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Good win last night. Heard the lads weren't great but a win is a win. Fate is in our own hands now. Beat Tipp and we stay in Division 3.

    One of the worst games of football i have been at in ages and that includes the Waterford game this year. Tipp are on a bit of a roll now and are after winning a couple in a row and i presume Cavan wont have the U-21 lads who made a big difference the other night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    celt262 wrote: »
    One of the worst games of football i have been at in ages and that includes the Waterford game this year. Tipp are on a bit of a roll now and are after winning a couple in a row and i presume Cavan wont have the U-21 lads who made a big difference the other night.

    3 of the U21s were used and I heard it may be regretted as Gearoid McKiernan went off injured. He's an important player for the U21s.

    I still think Cavan should have enough to beat Tipp at home and stay in Division 3. Here's hoping anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭KeepTheFaith


    G. McKiernan, thankfully, is none the worse of his knock on Saturday night and is fine now. The Tipp game will not be easy and given that the U-21s have a game on the Wednesday they won't be played. But a win is a must, in Breffni so there can be no excuses. It would be typical of Cavan to beat Louth and fall short against Tipp but now is the time to show their grit and win this game by any means necessary. A survival dogfight is never pretty, an ugly scrappy controversial 1 point victory would do just fine.

    What is particularly concerning for me is David Givney, one of the brightest prospects we have had in years and he is being dogged by injuries. This is his 3rd year at Senior football and he should be getting into his stride and making a name for himself in the midfield. Instead he is in and out of the team making the odd substitute appearance. Please God this won't be another Michael Lyng scenario. If we are to progress against Antrim or Donegal this summer, a mammoth ask for this team in their current position, then we need to have David Givney fully fit and playing well partnering McKiernan in midfield.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    G. McKiernan, thankfully, is none the worse of his knock on Saturday night and is fine now. The Tipp game will not be easy and given that the U-21s have a game on the Wednesday they won't be played. But a win is a must, in Breffni so there can be no excuses. It would be typical of Cavan to beat Louth and fall short against Tipp but now is the time to show their grit and win this game by any means necessary. A survival dogfight is never pretty, an ugly scrappy controversial 1 point victory would do just fine.

    What is particularly concerning for me is David Givney, one of the brightest prospects we have had in years and he is being dogged by injuries. This is his 3rd year at Senior football and he should be getting into his stride and making a name for himself in the midfield. Instead he is in and out of the team making the odd substitute appearance. Please God this won't be another Michael Lyng scenario. If we are to progress against Antrim or Donegal this summer, a mammoth ask for this team in their current position, then we need to have David Givney fully fit and playing well partnering McKiernan in midfield.

    That's good news about Givney. Is it true that Louth fielded a weakened team? If we've reached the level that we have to risk our U21s against a weakened Louth team, then we're at a pretty poor level. I'd imagine that Tyrone aren't risking there's.

    I've a feeling we'll be playing Donegal and that Murphy will beat us on his own. A good run in the qualifiers is the most we can hope for at senior level.

    I'd take the seniors getting hammered every game for an Ulster U21 title to be honest. Winning something at U21 or minor is the most important thing for Cavan at present IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭KeepTheFaith


    Lemlin wrote: »
    That's good news about Givney. Is it true that Louth fielded a weakened team? If we've reached the level that we have to risk our U21s against a weakened Louth team, then we're at a pretty poor level. I'd imagine that Tyrone aren't risking there's.

    I've a feeling we'll be playing Donegal and that Murphy will beat us on his own. A good run in the qualifiers is the most we can hope for at senior level.

    I'd take the seniors getting hammered every game for an Ulster U21 title to be honest. Winning something at U21 or minor is the most important thing for Cavan at present IMO.

    I don't think Louth had a weak team out? I know Judge was injured but I think Rooney was playing and Keenan was definitely playing. That was Louth's promotion game they needed it as much as we did. They did however play terribly and kicked 3 or 4 easy frees wide and the same again into the goalie's hands. Some credit must go to our much maligned full back line who did well.

    As regards taking an U-21 win over a Senior one I totally agree. The Ulster Final will be the difference between this group being Winners or being 'Nearly-Men'.. It's a massive ask though especially if they end up facing Tyrone, they have a fantastically talented team.
    The Celt alluded to the attitude after the Donegal game as opposed to the Monaghan game at the same stage last year. No backslapping or pitch invasion this time just the sense of a job well done for the evening, they have their eyes on the Cup and nothing else so their mentality seems spot on.

    I'd like to see how many of this team are survivors from the 2008 Minor team that lost narrowly to Tyrone..


  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭scoopmine


    Good win though louth were poor and i would stick with corr at full hopefully he will grow into it.i
    Louth seemed like us no gameplan at all.
    Givney is hopefully going to be the real deal he just needs a clear run at it..
    Least if we beat tipp we stay up...
    The u21s will hopefully go one better this year its by no means sure that we will have tyrone yet.
    Monaghan will be tough beat in the semi...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭celt262


    I don't think Louth had a weak team out? I know Judge was injured but I think Rooney was playing and Keenan was definitely playing. That was Louth's promotion game they needed it as much as we did. .

    Judge and keenan played and rooney came on near the end.

    I will put my neck on the line and say without our U-21's Tipp will win next Sunday.


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