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Girlfriend's Visa is Expiring

  • 22-05-2020 10:17am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Likely there's been a thread or two like this in the past but I would appreciate your input on our situation.

    My girlfriend and I are both 31. She is Brazilian, I'm Irish. We have been together for just over a year. We don't live together. She's been here nearly 7 years so her Visa is expiring in October.

    I would describe our relationship as very good. There is a clear attraction/chemistry there. I think she ticks all the boxes for me in terms of what you would want from a partner. She is definitely a good kind person, she is very relaxed and chilled out (important for me as I've had bad experiences in the past with high-maintenance girls), she likes the simple things in life like me but likes the occasional party too which fits in with me. We have things in common, and we have a good respectful relationship, no heated arguments, both my friends and family love her (again v important for me). I can be myself around her, and we have the same values and want the same things from life.

    Her English is perfect and she loves Ireland too, she sees her future here.

    Now the problem really is Coronavirus... The plan was that after finishing college this year she would get sponsored in a job (many people who did her course managed to land a sponsored job in tech so this was a realistic aim). Honestly with the way things are with Corona and the economy I have to be realistic and think that the chances of her landing a job are probably very low. If she can't land a job in a specialised field she will have to leave the country in September (she would be okay working in retail or whatever but you can't get sponsored in these jobs).

    This has put a lot of strain on our relationship the last couple of months. It's been hard to plan for a future with this looming departure date. We've talked about calling it a day as it seems like that might happen inevitably so maybe it's just easier to call it now and not drag things out. Ultimately though we do want to be together, we have no good reason to break up and we felt that we don't know what is going to happen but we can face it together.

    There is one obvious solution to this - we could get married. I would definitely not be considering marraige at this point if the Visa were not an issue. I'm cautious and rational with relationships, I've been through two failed long term relationships in the past. I'm aware these things take work and there's no such thing as destiny. I'm 31 so I'm not going to get carried/swept away. Additionally, we've never lived together and you learn a lot about your relationship through this.

    At the same time, I'm not religious and the whole institution of marraige is not something that's particularly important to me. I pretty much understand those long term couples who decide to be together but commit in a different way than marraige. My girlfriend would share this view. So it doesn't feel like a huge deal to me, it would be a practical choice.

    A couple of questions, one is more personal and one is more so practical:

    1) Would I be mad to consider marraige for this mainly practical reason? It wouldn't really be a "marraige of convenience" as I do want to be/stay with her, but as I said this wouldn't at all have been on our minds if she could stay here. If I could see myself being with her long-term really this is just bringing forward the date in some ways, and also it's not like we're kids, we're both in our 30s.

    2) If you have never lived with your spouse, would the marraige come under scrutiny as potentially being a "marraige of convenience"? Is there a possibility that she wouldn't be able to stay even if we did get married and it's therefore pointless? We could prove the length of relationship in other ways (photos, messages etc...), but we wouldn't have any shared utility bills, bank statements etc...

    I should make it clear that she's not suggesting marraige. Possibly some will wonder if I'm being "conned" by someone looking to stay in the country, so I can reassure you this is definitely not the case. I'm not naive in this respect, she is definitely a good person - hate to even have to state this (even anonymously!) as it feels weird even contemplating it, but I know some will jump to this conclusion so need to be clear on that.

    I'd appreciate your thoughts, especially if anyone had been through something similar. Another option is to see what happens - maybe she does get a job, maybe they extend expiring Visas given the situation with the pandemic, maybe she has to go home for a few months but things rebound in 2021... who knows.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭bitofabind


    Maybe look at it from another angle. Would you move to Brazil and make a bunch of personal and professional sacrifices for her? Or are you more attracted to the idea of not having to change your life as it is, deal with the dating scene again, etc.

    This really is a personal decision that no-one can make for you. Marriage is always a risk, but an even greater one when the relationship is still at an early stage and hasn't been tested by the trials and tribulations of life yet. Living together, travelling long distance, meeting her family/friends, how you handle stress and pressure as a couple, etc. I say that as someone that broke up with a partner of seven years after 8 months of living together.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Batgurl


    FYI practically speaking, this is already a non-starter.

    In Ireland, you have to give At least 3 months notice of intent to marry.

    The offices that do this are currently closed with no view on when they will reopen and a backlog of interviews to conduct which were postponed since lockdown began.

    You would find it physically and logistically impossible to get married in Ireland before her visa expires.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    An application to get married, even if it were possible to make one but Batgurl is right about the backlog, would come under serious scrutiny given the brevity of your relationship, you not living together and her visa situation.

    Also being married doesn't give an automatic right to residence. It's likely your OH would have to leave the Country and apply for spousal reunification.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I really appreciate your replies, thank you kind strangers, it's truly a great community service the people who take the time to respond to these threads.

    I did notice the 3 month thing yeah. This is a really sad situation for us but I appreciate the clarity and info provided here


  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭Dog day


    Hi OP, it looks like you’ve already received some good advice.

    Just to add I think the lesser of two evils is to see how things progress in terms of her visa being extended due to the pandemic.

    If however she does have to return to Brazil in September you may consider having a period of maintaining a long distance relationship for some time, that would be difficult, I’m not minimising it particularly as you clearly want to stay in this relationship.

    And though you may not be religious, marriage obviously has far too many legal implications to embark upon without being as sure as you can possibly be. Added to that is the fact you’ve never lived together, presumably you don’t know her family well etc. These are crucial factors.

    It’s a tough situation but I’d always advise against making that commitment for logistical or practical reasons. Wishing you both all the best.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Honestly? I wouldn’t do this even if it was possible. I’m trying to think of myself in my most ever besotted states and imagine I had to deal with it...and still it comes back to nope. For a start, I just couldn’t be 110% certain I wasn’t getting played and getting forced into a legal minefield that had been pre-planned. Even on here, go back and look at threads that start like “I know it seems this way but it’s not” and end with “Okay it was exactly that way.” Why get in and pursue a serious relationship to begin with when you know your residency isn’t secure long-term? I don’t have anything against Brazilians, it’s just factual that a lot come here because they get study opportunities they don’t get at home or elsewhere, then the circumstances of that see them build a life and an illegitimate marriage becomes the default option. I could never, ever feel fully secure, especially if I conveniently found myself in a situation where a visa marriage was implied as the *only* way the relationship could stay together (even if they didn’t outright say it). It’s too big of an ask.

    If you two love each other enough, you’ll be able to work through whatever comes, even if it’s a long distance relationship for a while. If you can’t survive that? Well for god’s sake definitely don’t marry the person that a relationship isn’t tenable with without it. Whether it’s marrying, having a baby, buying a house, whatever...if your relationship’s survival hinges on needing to do something major before you feel ready, that knot in your stomach is your gut screaming at you. In a relationship that’s built to last, those are all consequences of things going well, not solutions to problems that arise.

    Marry this girl now and I feel there’s every chance you’ll regret it down the line. Don’t marry her and there’s no chance for regret. If she splits up with you because of that? You’ll be sad but you’ll also know you were getting played, or at the very least it wasn’t going to last, and it was the right call. If she moves home for a bit, you guys go long distance, it works and you marry her THEN? You won’t regret that either. Go with the option that’s best for you and leaves no room for regrets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Flimsy_Boat


    leggo wrote: »
    <Snip> Please don't quote the entire preceeding post. It clogs threads with duplicate text and makes it difficult to read for users on the touch site.

    I think this is really cynical. A lot of people don't want to be in long distance relationships and wonder about the longevity of their relationship if their partner suddenly gets a job in Canada or Dubai.

    If you were going to marry her anyway, OP, then do so. It doesnt sound like it though. Otherwise dont cave to the pressure. If she goes back in September and you can't stand being without her, propose then and navigate the Irish immigration system.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Bluntly, you aren't going to be able to get married until I imagine, well into Autumn.

    Firstly, you've to give three months notice (which they can accept via email at the moment) and attend an appointment in person -both of you.

    Next, they cancelled all these appointments since March. Their offices will, at the earliest guess, not reopen until July 20th. So there's all the appointments that have been backing up in the system from their email notifications since mid March for them to get through before they even get to anyone who's now thinking about getting married. Honestly if you were thinking about an October wedding, you'd need to get in touch with them asap so you are in the queue for an appointment.

    And if you think urgency might prioritise you, I'm sad to say you will be mistaken. They literally do not care if people cannot get married right now, and they don't seem to have any clue when their offices are going to reopen nor do they have any plans to modify their offices for Covid safety.

    Believe me, I've tried to get answers. They cancelled our appointment 2 days before it was due to take place and it means now that we have no legal way to get married on our intended date in July. Our celebrant was willing to do it, we were ok with going ahead with just us and two witnesses and literally going straight home again but we can't even do that much without the necessary paperwork.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Not one mention of love in the OP?

    If you love her marry her at all costs, if you don't, don't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    If her visa was a student visa, and colleges are off for covid19.
    Surely they'll extend the visa till she can finish her studies ?
    Marriage will maybe confer some legal status , I don't know, but probably too late for you to annul the marriage so don't contemplate marrying her. My opinion


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭IrishZeus


    Op, I’m heavily involved in the student industry as I run a student travel agency dealing with Brazilian and Mexican students in Ireland, from English courses to Masters.

    Based on her being here 7 years, I assume she has already completed the Graduate programme at level 8 and spent 1 year on a Stamp 1G visa? Did she then go back and do a level 9 Masters on a Stamp 2 again?

    If somehow this is her *first* Higher Ed course, she she can avail of a 1 or 2 year automatic Stamp 1G, depending on the level of her course. You can (as far as I’m aware) spend 8 years here on a combination of study Stamp 2 Visas and working Stamp 1G Visa. (A max of 7 years can be spent studying on a Stamp 2)


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi OP, I'm not sure but a friend did mention this to me in passing (who is going out with a Brazilian) that you can apply for a Stamp 4 if your Brazilian partner is deemed a spouse, the relationship is serious (you have been living together for 2 years) but you dont necessarily need to marry? Not sure if this is true but see the link below.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/returning_to_ireland/residency_and_citizenship/returning_to_ireland_with_your_de_facto_partner.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭ka2


    Batgurl wrote: »
    FYI practically speaking, this is already a non-starter.

    In Ireland, you have to give At least 3 months notice of intent to marry.

    The offices that do this are currently closed with no view on when they will reopen and a backlog of interviews to conduct which were postponed since lockdown began.

    You would find it physically and logistically impossible to get married in Ireland before her visa expires.
    In addition to this, once you're married and you apply for a marriage visa, that can take up to a year to process.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    Anon_user wrote: »
    Hi OP, I'm not sure but a friend did mention this to me in passing (who is going out with a Brazilian) that you can apply for a Stamp 4 if your Brazilian partner is deemed a spouse, the relationship is serious (you have been living together for 2 years) but you dont necessarily need to marry? Not sure if this is true but see the link below.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/returning_to_ireland/residency_and_citizenship/returning_to_ireland_with_your_de_facto_partner.html

    Irrelevant, if you read the OP, they neither live together nor have been together two years.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 2,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mystery Egg


    Covid complications aside.

    Close friends of mine got married for exactly this reason. He is Irish, she is not Brazilian but from another South American country.

    They did not live together before getting married.

    They are extremely happy 5 years on and have two small children. Their only difficulty is the costs associated with visiting her family. Her mam has cancer and it is really tough living a great distance from her family. If you get married, all those problems will come up for you both in time.

    I would suggest you find an online couple's therapist and do a pre-marital course. This will help you discuss all of the issues that come with getting married, particularly where you are from different countries. If you are happy with the outcome of doing the course, I say go ahead and make your plans to get married.

    Bear in mind she may yet find a job. I know several people in industries not affected by covid who have interviewed for and gotten jobs during lockdown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,394 ✭✭✭ManOfMystery


    Sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place OP.

    Now I'm no expert on Visas or the like and I don't know where in the South you live - so anyone reading this can feel free to correct me - but just an idea - are you anywhere near the NI border? Would it be an option to relocate to NI even for a year or two with her on a new UK visa? Depending on your circumstances and distances I don't know if this would mean changing jobs yourself or if you could travel/work remotely, but at least you'd still be on the same land mass. There would be no major legal issues with you going to NI and generally you can reach most major cities in Ireland from where I am (Belfast) within 3-4hrs max, usually less, so you can see family and friends when needed. It would just give you both the opportunity of time to see how things pan out and then return permanently to ROI if it's all good in a year or two once things have settled down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Only adding this to expand on things ..
    But you say you've both talked about ending things. Who mentioned this first?
    And also is this something you feel like it hasn't crossed your mind.


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