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28-05-2020, 09:25   #91
yubabill
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The best way we can keep our sports is to take the thousand mile perspective;

most people who don't shoot see US mass shootings and drug feuds on TV etc. most days - they never met a licensed shooter and there is an understandable conflation going on.

When we get on the MSM we usually get a hatchet job done on us - the solution is to be consistently reasonable and personable as much as possible in all communications and stick together like glue.

Believe it or not, we have largely been doing this the last 5/6 years or so.

This is how we win - public perception.
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28-05-2020, 17:34   #92
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The best way we can keep our sports is to take the thousand mile perspective;

most people who don't shoot see US mass shootings and drug feuds on TV etc. most days - they never met a licensed shooter and there is an understandable conflation going on.

When we get on the MSM we usually get a hatchet job done on us - the solution is to be consistently reasonable and personable as much as possible in all communications and stick together like glue.

Believe it or not, we have largely been doing this the last 5/6 years or so.

This is how we win - public perception.

Front of the papers today, Brazilian hitmen in Offaly tooled up with mac-10's. All over a 100 euro debt. Whats happened to the oul place ?
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28-05-2020, 18:51   #93
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Front of the papers today, Brazilian hitmen in Offaly tooled up with mac-10's. All over a 100 euro debt. Whats happened to the oul place ?
Given the intended targets, I'm surprised the hit team weren't armed with slash hooks.
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28-05-2020, 20:25   #94
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MAC 10s?45ACP...Oh!!!!Old school,Where did they get those antiques from?They went out with pastel coloured shirts sockles deck shoes and Miami Vice somtime in the late 80s.
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28-05-2020, 21:09   #95
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MAC 10s?45ACP...Oh!!!!Old school,Where did they get those antiques from?They went out with pastel coloured shirts sockles deck shoes and Miami Vice somtime in the late 80s.
Who the fcuk gave them the thumbs up to come into Ireland ? Hardly people of good character previously. Or is it now come one come all ? Who ever stamped the visa's should be sacked.
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29-05-2020, 08:57   #96
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Front of the papers today, Brazilian hitmen in Offaly tooled up with mac-10's. All over a 100 euro debt. Whats happened to the oul place ?
I just wanted to say that being reasonable while not giving an inch are not mutually exclusive.

We need a media liaison who is attractive, intelligent and personable.

This person should be adept at framing our argument in emotive language, I have watched the likes of Trudeau etc. - they begin with what is called "framing the argument" in an emotive way and tone, but this allows them to then hammer home their main point, which is usually something uncompromising.
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29-05-2020, 09:08   #97
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We need a media liaison who is attractive, intelligent and personable.
That's me ruled out so.
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29-05-2020, 10:47   #98
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This person should be adept at framing our argument in emotive language, I have watched the likes of Trudeau etc. - they begin with what is called "framing the argument" in an emotive way and tone, but this allows them to then hammer home their main point, which is usually something uncompromising.
Trudeau and his likes are target big media stories (shootings, crime) for points and shooters are bycatch caught up crossfire. The public support the main message, who doesn’t oppose public shootings and criminals. But they are so so ignorant of genuine shooters it’s not even funny.

But that presents a massive problem. As soon as you defend your position as a genuine shooter it invariably makes it seem like you opposed the anti-crime message. It aligns you with the criminals. Sheets nonsense obviously, it’s not a binary situation. But it will come across that way.

The best form of opposing imo is distance yourself as much as possible from “gun-problems”. Highlight that it’s non binary and highlight that the control measures are flawed, rather than suggesting they are wrong.
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29-05-2020, 11:42   #99
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Also you want your spokesperson in PR to be prefably physically disabled,female or trans gender or gay,and non white.(Bonous points for a follower of Islam)...As well as having cast iron resolve ,as the abuse that will be thrown at them will be unbeliveably nasty on social media.

Seriously it should make it very hard for anyone in the PC crowd to be able to attack or portray shooting as being the preserve of old white guys with that sort of combination.

The days of a bit of gammon in tweed or a a shirt&tie harramumphing on about "shooting is good,so long as you are just using a sxs "on Sky is as out of fashion as gentlemans spats for their shoes.

We have to change the perspective and "deprogramme"people as well to make it out that everyone goes shooting.
Remember how quick Sen Bavick was in her box in the Dail hearing when she heard shooting was totally gender inclusive?Imagine if she had been told that by a Panti Bliss type!
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29-05-2020, 13:16   #100
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Small tip from a politican,who is on our side..
Dont go into a debate/interview to win an arguement. Go into there to get your ,single,two at uttermost point across,and make you look like the good guy or victim. You only have so many minutes of air debate time,so you can't argue finesse and details.

In the case of Tradeau,you would hit back by saying
[1] He is utterly incompetant and should resign,along with the head of that police force involved as he is now covering for a police force that is being coverd for its sheer incompetence in letting a prohibited person from accessing firearms
[2] Canada has some of the worlds strictest firearms laws in relation to those kind of firearms used in the shooting.The mass shooter aquired them illegally, with police knowledge apprently,how will banning privately held property and collectively punishing an innocent group of people further public saftey?A clear failure of Tradeau and his police force!

To win at this we have to become media street brawlers,and not Queensbury rule boxers. Sometimes you just have to put on the overalls and waders and climb into the warm&brown stuff to clear the blockage.
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29-05-2020, 14:35   #101
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[2] Canada has some of the worlds strictest firearms laws in relation to those kind of firearms used in the shooting.The mass shooter aquired them illegally, with police knowledge apprently,how will banning privately held property and collectively punishing an innocent group of people further public saftey?A clear failure of Tradeau and his police force!
Pointing out he held them illegally is a good start.
But the full picture needs the where or how did he sourced them illegally. I haven't seen that info, but it's hugely relevant.
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29-05-2020, 23:23   #102
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Small tip from a politican,who is on our side..
Dont go into a debate/interview to win an arguement. Go into there to get your ,single,two at uttermost point across,and make you look like the good guy or victim. You only have so many minutes of air debate time,so you can't argue finesse and details.

In the case of Tradeau,you would hit back by saying
[1] He is utterly incompetant and should resign,along with the head of that police force involved as he is now covering for a police force that is being coverd for its sheer incompetence in letting a prohibited person from accessing firearms
[2] Canada has some of the worlds strictest firearms laws in relation to those kind of firearms used in the shooting.The mass shooter aquired them illegally, with police knowledge apprently,how will banning privately held property and collectively punishing an innocent group of people further public saftey?A clear failure of Tradeau and his police force!

To win at this we have to become media street brawlers,and not Queensbury rule boxers. Sometimes you just have to put on the overalls and waders and climb into the warm&brown stuff to clear the blockage.
Was thinking after, when you look closely at Trudeau while he's emoting at you, there is nothing going on behind those eyes. He's a clothes horse backed by a team telling him what to say, when he's not reading autocue.

Brings to mind Black Sabbath, they only really got going when Ozzy Osbourne came aboard and there was never anything going on between Ozzy's ears, but he could mouth.

The modern way seems to be a team effort - someone with planning talent, plans; someone else good at writing, writes; another good at communicating, speaks.

As regards streetfighting in debates, that really should be a last resort IMHO and better to follow the "win one or two points and look like the good guy" advice.

We tend to go for knockout punches because we hardly ever get in front of mics or cameras and that's an amateur mistake. It's a points game now IMHO and that's how the game is won in today's media ecosystem. And if the speaker is good enough, they get asked to do more interviews.

Last edited by yubabill; 29-05-2020 at 23:25. Reason: f***n autocorrect
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29-05-2020, 23:56   #103
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I had this in a different thread, so you may not have heard it before. Turdeau speaking about the dangerous sloppery slope of gun control. Fast forward 10 years and he is the one that did the back stabbing, banning firearms, after a nutter took a murdered policewomans issued pistols etc.


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30-05-2020, 12:44   #104
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Was thinking after, when you look closely at Trudeau while he's emoting at you, there is nothing going on behind those eyes. He's a clothes horse backed by a team telling him what to say, when he's not reading autocue.

Brings to mind Black Sabbath, they only really got going when Ozzy Osbourne came aboard and there was never anything going on between Ozzy's ears, but he could mouth.

The modern way seems to be a team effort - someone with planning talent, plans; someone else good at writing, writes; another good at communicating, speaks.

As regards streetfighting in debates, that really should be a last resort IMHO and better to follow the "win one or two points and look like the good guy" advice.

We tend to go for knockout punches because we hardly ever get in front of mics or cameras and that's an amateur mistake. It's a points game now IMHO and that's how the game is won in today's media ecosystem. And if the speaker is good enough, they get asked to do more interviews.

You Sir!!Win the cigar!!! This is exactly what you are dealing with. Someone else is writing the script and the sock puppet is speaking the script that will put them in the best light with their voters.

Happens here all the time.Suppose we have a minister who wants to change some law.He'll ask his dept for solutions.He'll get proably three reports of options,and one of those will be the "recommended" course by the civil servants in his dept.
Should he decide ,he wants to go another route in another report,he'll be "persuaded" that the original recommended report is the best. "persuading" around here means being told by civil serpents in no uncertain terms that if he doesnt follow that course of action,it will be made known that he went against his advisors advice and did a solo run on the issue,and he is to blame for the consequences,esp in an election year. Takes a stiff spine to stand up to that sort of pressure,esp if you are dealing with these people for everything on a daily basis,and esp on a topic you might be utterly clueless about.IE firearms.


BTW when I meant using street brawling tactics I meant with the media,and using their methodology against them to get attention,not in interviews.

Asking the speaker back...If the media is getting the right feedback that suits the agenda.Note how "experts" like Clonan,or whomever succeded him and Mike Yardley are always dragged in front of a camera regarding firearms issues. They fit a profile and they blather a message of "compromise" and "reasonable gun control measures" or in Clonans case "Guns are dangerous M'Kay?"

But if you get someone like Katja Treibel,a woman with cancer,who did all the research to smash the EU gun ban arguement to bits with facts,figures,and statistics,while on her back for five months of chemo,and then travelled to Brussels a day after her last treatment to take part in numerous interviews with FUN and the panels of enquiry,and actually owns and runs a gunshop and knows her stuff...You are avoided like COVID by German MSM,as you dont fit the narrative

We should be all old white guys,who are repersentative of the patriachary,who are rasicst Bambi killers,Trump voters and ignorant.

So lets dissapoint them then.

Our next PR should be a woman, or someone openly gay and as sharp as Milo Yannaopoulis,Bi or trans a Xdresser that would put Eddie Izzard to shame, multi ethnic,disabled,or a combo of any of those.IOW someone who fits the MSM narrative of a minority or oppressed.Refusing to interview them or painting them in a bad light,brings down ire from those groups on the media.They are forced to give us a fair interview then [Street brawler media tactic]

Last edited by Grizzly 45; 30-05-2020 at 13:05.
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01-06-2020, 08:43   #105
yubabill
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You Sir!!Win the cigar!!! This is exactly what you are dealing with. Someone else is writing the script and the sock puppet is speaking the script that will put them in the best light with their voters.

Happens here all the time.Suppose we have a minister who wants to change some law.He'll ask his dept for solutions.He'll get proably three reports of options,and one of those will be the "recommended" course by the civil servants in his dept.
Should he decide ,he wants to go another route in another report,he'll be "persuaded" that the original recommended report is the best. "persuading" around here means being told by civil serpents in no uncertain terms that if he doesnt follow that course of action,it will be made known that he went against his advisors advice and did a solo run on the issue,and he is to blame for the consequences,esp in an election year. Takes a stiff spine to stand up to that sort of pressure,esp if you are dealing with these people for everything on a daily basis,and esp on a topic you might be utterly clueless about.IE firearms.


BTW when I meant using street brawling tactics I meant with the media,and using their methodology against them to get attention,not in interviews.

Asking the speaker back...If the media is getting the right feedback that suits the agenda.Note how "experts" like Clonan,or whomever succeded him and Mike Yardley are always dragged in front of a camera regarding firearms issues. They fit a profile and they blather a message of "compromise" and "reasonable gun control measures" or in Clonans case "Guns are dangerous M'Kay?"

But if you get someone like Katja Treibel,a woman with cancer,who did all the research to smash the EU gun ban arguement to bits with facts,figures,and statistics,while on her back for five months of chemo,and then travelled to Brussels a day after her last treatment to take part in numerous interviews with FUN and the panels of enquiry,and actually owns and runs a gunshop and knows her stuff...You are avoided like COVID by German MSM,as you dont fit the narrative

We should be all old white guys,who are repersentative of the patriachary,who are rasicst Bambi killers,Trump voters and ignorant.

So lets dissapoint them then.

Our next PR should be a woman, or someone openly gay and as sharp as Milo Yannaopoulis,Bi or trans a Xdresser that would put Eddie Izzard to shame, multi ethnic,disabled,or a combo of any of those.IOW someone who fits the MSM narrative of a minority or oppressed.Refusing to interview them or painting them in a bad light,brings down ire from those groups on the media.They are forced to give us a fair interview then [Street brawler media tactic]
You know, Katja is an excellent representative, she has done great work and meticulous research. Her only fault -from a media perspective- is that she is too technical.

She needs someone to "interpret" her messages to make them media-friendly (i.e.; framed in a pre-digested press release that can be cut-and-pasted to form an almost complete article, because that is what most journo's today actually do. they get a pre-formed article from SOS Mediterannee or some NGO dressed-up as a press release and there's a day's work done; off to the bookies for the afternoon).
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