Greystones Marina

Apip99 · 11-01-2006 11:26am #1

I have just been looking at the proposed plans for Greystones Mariana, and shocked to say the least. It looks like something that belongs on the Cast-Del-Crime!

I know that development is needed. I live in Delgany Wood, and I know that there were huge objections to our estate, and also to Charles land. But that was housing, that was badly needed. A now, good friend of mine was on the committee to stop the building of our estate. He now see's the benefits of it. (Street lighting etc) But I see no benefit in changing the Greystones village into a Mariana on the scale they are proposing.

Have a look for yourself and see what you think. There is a sample letter on the site, so please if you don't want to see the village chage for every print it of and send it in.

http://www.greystonesmarina.com/

Thanks in advance,

Phil

Oh and Thanks Eoin_S for getting the Greystones/Charlesland forum up and running. Shame you forgot us up in Delgany

Eoin · 11-01-2006 1:14pm

Apip99 wrote:

I have just been looking at the proposed plans for Greystones Mariana, and shocked to say the least. It looks like something that belongs on the Cast-Del-Crime!

I know that development is needed. I live in Delgany Wood, and I know that there were huge objections to our estate, and also to Charles land. But that was housing, that was badly needed. A now, good friend of mine was on the committee to stop the building of our estate. He now see's the benefits of it. (Street lighting etc) But I see no benefit in changing the Greystones village into a Mariana on the scale they are proposing.

Have a look for yourself and see what you think. There is a sample letter on the site, so please if you don't want to see the village chage for every print it of and send it in.

http://www.greystonesmarina.com/

Thanks in advance,

Phil

From the Irish times last week:

Marina's consultation period extended
Tim O'Brien

The developers of the proposed €300 million marina development for Greystones harbour in Co Wicklow have agreed to an extended period of public consultation on the project.

The closing date for objections to the controversial harbour refurbishment proposed by Wicklow County Council and its private sector partner, Sispar consortium, has now been set for February 15th.

In return for the refurbishment of the granite pier harbour, which dates from the late 1800s, and provision of new facilities for existing harbour users, the Sispar consortium is to be allowed to build 375 apartments.

Plans including an environmental impact statement are on view in Greystones library and county council offices.

A spokesman for the project said the decision to extend the public consultation by two weeks was because of the Christmas-New Year holiday. An advertising campaign is also being mounted locally.

The development includes provision for a new Coast Guard station, a new beach area, a public boardwalk and a 230-berth marina with a public slipway.

An Bord Pleanála is expected to hold an oral hearing on the scheme this March. Subject to approval from the board and confirmation of compulsory purchase orders for land adjacent to the foreshore, work could get under way as early as this summer.

Opposition to the project centres on the 375 apartments which the consortium is to be allowed to build in return for the public facilities and refurbishment of the harbour.

Although Sispar has described the apartments as "a maximum height of three storeys over ground floor wharf type retail facilities", a public meeting in Greystones late last year became heated when drawings indicated four storeys above water level with the fourth storey being double height.

Locals claimed the development was effectively five storeys over water level and would obscure existing views of the small Sugarloaf. More than 1,000 people visited the exhibition and almost 250 comment cards were submitted.

Opponents also claim that the three-year construction period would be massively disruptive, with construction vehicles having constricted access to the site under a railway bridge at the harbour, or over a bridge at Trafalgar Road.

However, the project has received support from the Harbour Users' Group and members of the town and county councils, who point out that the current harbour is deteriorating rapidly and attempts to enlist other developers over the past two decades were unsuccessful.

Sispar is a joint venture partnership of John Sisk & Sons, which would undertake the major engineering work, Park Developments, which would build the apartments, and Wicklow County Council, which would provide the land and harbour. As the council is a partner in the venture the planning process is to be adjudicated by An Bord Pleanála.

In addition to the public displays, the environmental impact statement can be viewed on the Wicklow County Council website at www.wicklow.ie/specialprojects/ .

A copy of the complete document can be bought for €50 (or €5 for the CD), or the non-technical summary for €15.

Apip99 wrote:

Oh and Thanks Eoin_S for getting the Greystones/Charlesland forum up and running. Shame you forgot us up in Delgany

No one from neighbouring areas supported the forum, so I just suggested "Greystones / Charlesland" as the name of the forum, but if you check the charter I said that anyone from surrounding areas should feel free to post.

If we get lots of people from the East Wicklah area posting, we may be able to rename the forum in the future.

Eoin

Johnc72 · 11-01-2006 1:16pm

Jesus, I hadn't seen these plans. It's absolutely ridiculous to build something like that in Greystones. What is a lovely part of the town, albeit a little rundown will be destroyed by that.

Apip99 · 11-01-2006 2:50pm

Thanks for the info Eoin. So untill the 15th to get letters in.

And I won't hold you missing of your neighbours, We'll cope.

Bettyboop · 11-01-2006 3:05pm

I think the marina will be great for Greystones its about time we moved with
the times.

The Lime · 11-01-2006 3:25pm

Most people don't want it in Greystones.I think a prefered location would be Kilcoole.The level of the sea is also very low here and theres plenty of room.If you extend the Dart line to kilcoole it would be used by commuters and boat owners. It would also develop the village.Kilcoole is not well known as Greystones and a Mariana could help the businesses

Bettyboop · 11-01-2006 3:53pm

pass the buck you mean!! why do some people in Greystones go up in arms as soon as a development MIGHT take place??they objected to Dunnes stores
to lidl even to the dart.Just because something might devalue their homes,sure look at Charlesland it is known as Little Tallaght already.Surely
having a marina will up the house prices bring in employment.The harbour is in
an awful state and has deterioated.

Apip99 · 11-01-2006 4:33pm

Personally that's the way I like Greystones. Why does the village 'have to keep up with the times'.

When we 1st looked at buying in Delgany, we took a walk around the harbour, and along the front. Its nice that it has a used feel to it. Okay it could do with tiding up. But it was nice to feel that you were in Ireland. Where as if goes ahead it will look like a scene from Miami Vice! (Minus the weather)

I just think its too much of a step forward.

And Val, I don't think its just about the house prices. Although as you mentioned I would have thought they would go up, rather than down.

There is no employment admittedly, its a commuter town. I can't see how building a marina would bring in more jobs.

Eoin · 13-01-2006 1:10pm

Apip99 wrote:

Personally that's the way I like Greystones. Why does the village 'have to keep up with the times'.

When we 1st looked at buying in Delgany, we took a walk around the harbour, and along the front. Its nice that it has a used feel to it. Okay it could do with tiding up. But it was nice to feel that you were in Ireland. Where as if goes ahead it will look like a scene from Miami Vice! (Minus the weather)

I just think its too much of a step forward.

And Val, I don't think its just about the house prices. Although as you mentioned I would have thought they would go up, rather than down.

There is no employment admittedly, its a commuter town. I can't see how building a marina would bring in more jobs.

I don't know if you can have it both ways though - i.e. buy a house in a massive estate, and then not want any other new developments in the area.

There has been a hugely snobbish reaction from existing Greystones residents to Charlesland (e.g. the "Little Tallaght" nickname mentioned earlier), so that automatically makes me disinclined to support any of the existing residents groups efforts to block further development in Greystones.

There has been a lot of noise about how you can't have a big development in a small town when the facilities aren't there. Greystones has: the dart, the commuter train, bus service to down, 5 minute access to a national road, Supervalu, Tescos, Superquinn, a new creche (whose customers insist on blocking my driveway every morning).

I think it is a given that Greystones and the neighbouring areas are going to expand a lot, given our proximity to Dublin, the Dart, regular(ish) bus services to Dublin etc. The only thing we can hope for, is that any expansions / developments will be a bonus to the area - because they will happen.

I think a marina alone would be a great addition to the area, although a block of apartments would not be as preferable. For instance, I think the marina in Dun Laoghaire is a fantastic addition to the area.

The Real B-man · 16-01-2006 7:08pm

it will have nothing for the people of Greystones just knobs parking there yachts & fancy social club fenced off from everybody else

casanova_kid · 16-01-2006 10:26pm

Will we be able to jump off the new harbour wall? These are the important issues.

The Real B-man · 17-01-2006 12:17am

casanova_kid wrote:

Will we be able to jump off the new harbour wall? These are the important issues.

yes yes they are...:v:

ccfcexile · 17-01-2006 5:10pm

the simple soultion here is, for people to get on to their local politicians and tell them you will vote them out of office when the next elections come around , you will see how fast they will change your mind if you tell them ye are giong to run your own anti marina canidates

lastsaturday · 17-01-2006 5:41pm

ccfcexile wrote:

the simple soultion here is, for people to get on to their local politicians and tell them you will vote them out of office when the next elections come around , you will see how fast they will change your mind if you tell them ye are giong to run your own anti marina canidates

heh-heh "You can take the rebel out of Cork..."
i'd put pressure on the local politicians too.

i feel the same way tho. when i first came across greystones, it was driving down the long road from Bray. it looked just like a biscuit tin painting. the harbour, the little houses with smoke coming from the chimnies, etc. that's when i decided i'd live there one day.

stick a great bit Marina complex in there, and what do you have? another Dun Laoghaire. lovely.

ccfcexile · 18-01-2006 9:47am

http://www.greystonesmarina.com/staticpages/index.php?page=representatives

http://www.greystonesmarina.com/staticpages/index.php?page=localreps

above is a list of local pblic representives

contact them if your not happy let them know your feelings
oh and a fiver says sinn fein will get involved and side with ye

wakejiver · 19-01-2006 11:06pm

Once again the politicians and county councillors are in cohorts with the developers to enrich them further. This development is disgusting, oversized, unwanted and the fact that the wicklow coco are trying to bulldoze this through under the guise of Public private partnership is ridiculous. How can a council put a compulsory purchase order on public land.. i.e. the beach and then give it to a developer to clearly enrich themselves at the expense of the local populus. (Every other harbour in Ireland beware if this is the precedent that councils are setting) True enough club houses will be a benefit to the local community but at what cost. The lose of such a beautiful view and tranquil area. I am a boat owner who spent most nights last summer on the waters off greystones however this development is clearly too big for this area and how our concillors are getting away with this one is nothing short of disgusting. I do want to see an improvement to the harbour area however if this is the cost they can go and stick their proverbials in the sand. Is there anything that can be done to stop this tragedy!

Fiachra2 · 20-01-2006 9:19am

wakejiver wrote:

Once again the politicians and county councillors are in cohorts with the developers to enrich them further. This development is disgusting, oversized, unwanted and the fact that the wicklow coco are trying to bulldoze this through under the guise of Public private partnership is ridiculous. How can a council put a compulsory purchase order on public land.. i.e. the beach and then give it to a developer to clearly enrich themselves at the expense of the local populus. (Every other harbour in Ireland beware if this is the precedent that councils are setting) True enough club houses will be a benefit to the local community but at what cost. The lose of such a beautiful view and tranquil area. I am a boat owner who spent most nights last summer on the waters off greystones however this development is clearly too big for this area and how our concillors are getting away with this one is nothing short of disgusting. I do want to see an improvement to the harbour area however if this is the cost they can go and stick their proverbials in the sand. Is there anything that can be done to stop this tragedy!

You can do two things.
1. Write an appeal to An Bord Pleanala before 15 February. A sample letter is on the website greystonesmarina.com I suggest you use it as a template only and write your own letter objecting on the basis of your reasons for disliking the project.

The objection is free
You do not have to be resident in Greystones to object
[/LIST

2. Write to local TD's, particularly Dick Roche, minister of the environment making it very clear that any TD who does not actively oppose this development will not get your support in the elections next year.

Dont underestimate your influence. If enough people take action we can make a difference.

trippin · 20-01-2006 10:54am

What does the Minister for the environment have to say about all of this. Isn't Dick Roche from Greystones himself? Some bloody minister he is, if he lets this go on in his own back yard! Two questions..

How are the Wicklow county council not accountable for what they are doing here. Is it even legal?
How come Dick Roche cannot do anything about this as it clearly has environmental implications, given the size of the development.

Ru · 20-01-2006 10:55am

I’ve put my objections in writing as should all opposed.
I’ve stated in righting that I will NOT vote for any politician in favour of the marina and that I WILL give my votes to a politician/party opposed to the new marina development to ensure that it does not go ahead

This IS the only way the politicians will re-consider the development, if their jobs are at stake they will listen. If only a minority complain they will assume that the majorities have no problem and it will go ahead.

Ru

Pine Martin · 20-01-2006 11:20am

This is an awful development, it is being built more for the vanity of Fine gael & Fianna Fail town councillors then for the people of Greystones. It is not in keeping with the town, just like the similarily terrible and empty new shopping area The Meridian Centre!
This marina will lead to increased traffic on roads leading to the area, on which there are schools. Traffic apparanetly will increase to 1 heavy truck every two minutes over the 2 to 5 year period while this is being built, not to mention all the extra traffic from sightseers, builders, and eventually residents. It is a traffic jam in a cul-d-sac!::mad:

DerekMitchell2 · 20-01-2006 11:27am

We think the new development is a great idea - While we admit that some people like the current view of the harbour and Bray head – and the tourism board use it a lot in their promotional material of Wicklow. In the future there is no doubt that all promotional material for the garden of Ireland will show pictures of this beautiful marina along with the high rise apartments which accompany it. If you doubt this check out the pictures on http://www.greystonesmarina.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Development

While obviously everyone is aware that the development will lead to additional traffic congestion but once we develop the remainder of Bray head hopefully it should only take about 45 mins to get out of Greystones at rush hour. Parking in the village may obviously be a problem but we plan to solve this with a new park and ride service in Kilcoole.

One day soon, hopefully we will not have to maintain any public land – we have a great high rise planned for Burnaby Park which I think everyone will support (or at least the people that we will survey!)

The Derek Mitchell Fan club

Sleipnir · 20-01-2006 11:29am

valerie wrote:

sure look at Charlesland it is known as Little Tallaght already.

Actually, it's known as Tallaghtfornia!

Johnc72 wrote:

Jesus, I hadn't seen these plans. It's absolutely ridiculous to build something like that in Greystones. What is a lovely part of the town, albeit a little rundown will be destroyed by that.

Well, the area where Charlesland now is used to be a lovely spot for walks but that's now destoyed. Of course, the people who live there now don't see it that way.

Ru · 20-01-2006 11:45am

DerekMitchell2 wrote:

We think the new development is a great idea -
One day soon, hopefully we will not have to maintain any public land – we have a great high rise planned for Burnaby Park which I think everyone will support (or at least the people that we will survey!)

The Derek Mitchell Fan club

Your kidding................aren’t you?

Marcais · 20-01-2006 11:55am

Ru wrote:

Your kidding................aren’t you?

Yes..He's kidding..the "high-rise" at Burnaby Park kinda gives it away!!

LET HIM KNOW HIS JOB IS ON THE LINE: dick.roche@oireachtas.ie

repalced by this:

Ru · 20-01-2006 12:00pm

Sleipnir wrote:

Well, the area where Charlesland now is used to be a lovely spot for walks but that's now destoyed. Of course, the people who live there now don't see it that way.

Your right....we don't see it that way at all.......... I've been coming to Greystones with my family for over 25 years visiting family and friends and i agree that a huge development like Charlesland can be seen as unsightly, but if the "local" people have a problem with "blowin's" ruining Greystones shouldn't they be taking their frustration out on the developers and the politicians for allowing the property market to loose complete control. Name-calling should be left to the under 12's in the playground, not adults who obviously have not considered how difficult it is to afford somewhere you would want to raise a family.

moxyfilms · 20-01-2006 12:13pm

It's not about blow-ins. I'm a blow-in. I live right at the harbour. Do you know why? Because it's beautiful. My neighbors are blow-ins here too. They love it here as well and are outspoken about this issue. Blow-ins aren't the problem. The occupany percentage of residences in a village is a seperate issue. The issue about this development is the how and why. And I think there's far more about the coastal erosion that nees to be explored. I am less concerned about losing my view than I am seeing development money wasted on something that will probably get kicked in by the sea and the coastal process (are there any geologists or oceanographers ot there who might want to have a look at the EIS?)

Why why why does development in Ireland always go about things arse backwards? I would think that before any place is developed the first thing to do would be to build road access. There is one decent approach to Greystones and that's over Bray Head. But of course most drivers... and especially lorry drivers, find it easier to shoot down the N11 and come in through Delgany. I don't know if you noticed but that road can't take the volume of traffic going through it. Who knows when the kilcoole access to N11 will open (and new harbour dwellers are not going to go that far south to get in and out of the village, sorry) but maybe if the council continues to get the bill for all the flat tyres everyone seems to be getting in the massive holes on the road, perhaps they'll think about it.

Road access is only the tip of the iceberg. On a whole I think the people in this country in charge of developing lands and infrastructures are proving themselves incompetent and capable of spending disasterous amounts of money on faulty projects (think Port tunnel, think faulty Luas rails... etc. etc. etc).

Please, folks, write down your objection to this mad project and send it to your councillor with the affirmation that you will endeavour to vote for their opponents should they continue to support the harbour redevelopment. Other than our united voices it's the only real currency we have.

Marcais · 20-01-2006 1:17pm

REPLACED BY THIS:

STOP IT NOW, E-MAIL DICK ROCHE: dick.roche@oireachtas.ie

Long-term/lifetime Greystones residents have lodged objections to every development from traffic lights to Dart trains to Charlesland. However Greystones Marina is DIFFERENT. Charlesland for example is not a stye in the eye of the village as it sits in an area well outside "city limits".

The marina as plans stand however is an abomination. No doubt, the harbour is in need of renovation and there are erosion problems, but you don't perform a heart transplant for indigestion. The council are listening, they are listening to Sisk's money. Money talks, but we should not listen to their transparent pledges about how they are doing this to benefit Greystones residents.

My attraction, and many new resident's attraction to Greystones (albeit Charlesland;) ) was the village, the harbour and surrounding area, and indeed was the main focus of Durkan's advertising. Coming into Greystones on the Dart after coming throught the "modern" Dun Laoighaire and Bray, Greystones village with it's unspoiled coastline and old village charm is a beautiful sight. Don't let this Marina destroy the character of Greystones. Say NO to Costa Del Greystones (sorry!)

I'll be posting similar on as many forums as I can gain access to.

Eoin · 20-01-2006 1:25pm

Sleipnir wrote:

Actually, it's known as Tallaghtfornia!

Excellent stuff, the epitome of wit there.

Sleipnir wrote:

Well, the area where Charlesland now is used to be a lovely spot for walks but that's now destoyed. Of course, the people who live there now don't see it that way.

No, we don't see it that way strangely enough, we will leave that to the snobbish attitide of the locals.

One thing I have noticed is this pink and fluffy romanticised view that the locals have of Greystones. I love the town, and it did not take long to think of it as my home - but lets be honest about this, it has it's fair share of knackers already there. A load of professional 20-somethings moving into the area is the least of the locals worries.

Just to note, this forum is NOT here to discuss whether Charlesland is an eyesore / blot on the land / boil erupted from the underside of Satan's nut sack, or whatever the locals think. Go the the "East" forum for that, it is not welcome here.

ccfcexile · 20-01-2006 1:28pm

eoin_s wrote:

Excellent stuff, the epitome of wit there.

No, we don't see it that way strangely enough, we will leave that to the snobbish attitide of the locals.

One thing I have noticed is this pink and fluffy romanticised view that the locals have of Greystones. I love the town, and it did not take long to think of it as my home - but lets be honest about this, it has it's fair share of knackers already there. A load of professional 20-somethings moving into the area is the least of the locals worries.

Just to note, this forum is NOT here to discuss whether Charlesland is an eyesore / blot on the land / boil erupted from the underside of Satan's nut sack, or whatever the locals think. Go the the "East" forum for that, it is not welcome here.

well said eoin

Marcais · 20-01-2006 2:45pm

Can we keep this thread on the Marina? I only ask, because people are being asked to come to this thread and have their say on the Marina Plans.

Cheers

Eoin · 20-01-2006 2:52pm

Marcais wrote:

Can we keep this thread on the Marina? I only ask, because people are being asked to come to this thread and have their say on the Marina Plans.

Cheers

How do you mean people are being asked to come to this thread?

Greystones Marina

Comments