AMA Forum Charter and "Plan" discussion

rainbow kirby · 18-02-2015 3:37pm

allybhoy wrote: »

Id love to personally hear from a professional athlete or and get some insight into the dedication and training required for their chosen sport. Boxing \ Soccer \ Rugby \ Athletics \ Tennis etc. Even "non athletic" sports such as Darts \ Snooker \ Golf.

Would love to see this - even some of the sub-elite crowd from the athletics/triathlon/cycling forums.

Señor Fancy Pants · 18-02-2015 9:24pm

It's a pity the traveller AMA thread was closed but I understand why.

We are all aware that anyone who enters into an AMA environment is potentially open to tough, stereotypical, invasive, or nonsensical questions depending on the subject matter.

Mostly the questions at the forefront of these threads stem from people's genuine curiously, stereotypical misconceptions, 3rd hand knowledge, and personal experiences.

It's a chance for people to ask whatever they have always wondered and a chance for the subject to help people understand their life and their World, whatever that may be.

There are of course restrictions, some sensitive questions cannot be answered for various reasons depending on the AMA and we should respect that.

I think it was and could have been a very informative and rumour dispelling thread. TG herself came across very well and kicked down a barrier or two of my own prejudices which I formed from previous bad encounters from the travelling community.

I will be honest though, the traveller community and settled community are a mixed bag. Some good and some bad. That's something undeniable.

I am disheartened, rightly or wrongly, by the thread closure and Mod "firefighting". I believe it was unnecessary and is only a sign that certain emotive AMA's like this may not be introduced in the future. If they are, people won't contribute because they know their valid questions may be dodged or the Mod axe will be used. However, I don't agree with a subject being harassed.

If a poster from any AMA is uncomfortable with a question, I would prefer they acknowledge it, respond accordingly and move on. Or a note in the OP to state that the subject will not be fielding questions about x, y, z. I don't think that is unreasonable. But thats just the humble view of a once happy AMA lurker.

In some ways we could view the thread failure as a disservice of the boards community. The fact that we didn't get the answer we wanted so kept gong until we tipped the cart and apples went everywhere.

However, I also see it as a disservice to the traveller community. A very valid, reasonable and very general question was asked. This is obviously a very popular question and not localised to this Internet forum but in general society.

I'm sure there are some very legitimate, skilled and genuine jobs that members of the travelling community carry out which earn them a wage. As it stands, I'm left with stereotypical thoughts, and no better off.

Any answer would have been better than the blanket blackout. It seems that any answer that TG may have had, may have illegal undertones. Purely speculation on my behalf and hopefully not an apt deduction from the lack of response.

Interesting while it lasted though but I don't think il bother coming back. Adieu AMA.

G_R · 18-02-2015 9:33pm

As far as I'm aware the thread was closed not due to Mod firefighting, but rather a request from TG herself.

To be honest, I think it's a pity that some people couldn't accept the fact that she wasn't going to answer q's on income, whether rightly or wrongly, and for whatever the reason, and move on.

Personally, Id have preferred a better answer to those q's, but at the same time, if she wasn't going to answer, she wasn't going to answer. Surely the the thread is better served by her answering those questions she was willing to answer, rather than putting her in a position where she felt uncomfortable and requested it be stopped.

Just my 2c anyway

Dozen Wicked Words · 18-02-2015 9:39pm

Reddit AMA are often held up as an example of how to do it by some. Shed loads of questions don't get answered on there. Fair enough to ask once or twice but borderline haranguing over same questions is out of order imo, especially when it looked to me it was just a run of the mill "normal" person like the rest of us, and not some rent a spokesperson with all the easy answers or non answers pros are so good at.

evolving_doors · 18-02-2015 11:39pm

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Reddit AMA are often held up as an example of how to do it by some. Shed loads of questions don't get answered on there. Fair enough to ask once or twice but borderline haranguing over same questions is out of order imo, especially when it looked to me it was just a run of the mill "normal" person like the rest of us, and not some rent a spokesperson with all the easy answers or non answers pros are so good at.

Thats the nub of it, it's essentially the interviewees thread, if she doesn't want to answer then get over it and stop repeating it or picking a fight with the ref. There were loads of questions Donovan never got to for whatever reason (mine included), but yet its 'all cool' Donovan cos he's a cool dude yaknow he might be busy and stuff.
Expecting someone to be a spokesperson and attone for all travellers is petty. Asking someone .... sorry, 'demanding' from someone where their bread and butter comes from is disgusting. Not to mention justifying how many children they were going to be able to support.

Gits_bone · 19-02-2015 9:22am

Armelodie wrote: »

Thats the nub of it, it's essentially the interviewees thread, if she doesn't want to answer then get over it and stop repeating it or picking a fight with the ref. There were loads of questions Donovan never got to for whatever reason (mine included), but yet its 'all cool' Donovan cos he's a cool dude yaknow he might be busy and stuff.
Expecting someone to be a spokesperson and attone for all travellers is petty. Asking someone .... sorry, 'demanding' from someone where their bread and butter comes from is disgusting. Not to mention justifying how many children they were going to be able to support.

Reddit has 1000's of comments. People are asking questions long after the celeb has gone off reddit.

And Donovan got stick. He clearly just wanted publicity for his gig and when it was over he couldn't give a shít. Don't care anyways as never heard of Donovan and he had a bad haircut.

On the traveller one the one question a person wants to know is about income. A great chance to dispel some stereotypes but alas no answer. Then there's bans threatened for asking it? "Ask me Anything" Yeah right.

Also it's funny how stereotypes were allowed in the thread yet post them in a normal thread and you'll get infracted. Some mods made the comments...maybe that's why. For example.

why don''t travellers park properly and not out in the middle of the road?!!!

mikom · 19-02-2015 2:25pm

The one thing that the traveller thread had a chance to dispel was the "duckin' and divin'" stereotype.
I lost count of the ducks and the dives.

endacl · 19-02-2015 5:07pm

mikom wrote: »

The one thing that the traveller thread had a chance to dispel was the "duckin' and divin'" stereotype.
I lost count of the ducks and the dives.

I saw it very much the other way round, tbh. TG was only there to speak of her own experience, and only in as much detail as she was comfortable with.

I lost count of the cheap shots. And fair play to her for dodging them. A pity that a few boringly predictable posters lost the rest of us a genuinely interesting discussion.

Gits_bone · 19-02-2015 5:21pm

endacl wrote: »

I saw it very much the other way round, tbh. TG was only there to speak of her own experience, and only in as much detail as she was comfortable with.

I lost count of the cheap shots. And fair play to her for dodging them. A pity that a few boringly predictable posters lost the rest of us a genuinely interesting discussion.

The question we all wanted answered was the one that wasn't answered.

MrWalsh · 19-02-2015 5:22pm

I was disappointed that TGs AMA ended so abruptly. But I dont blame her asking for it to be closed. Some of the hostility and harassing questions were appalling.

The point of the AMA was for her to talk about HER experiences as a traveller and answer questions about herself. At no point did she ever step up and say she was going to speak for all travellers. The Pavee Point thread that the AMA spun off from had had some great chat going on and some of us had been talking to TG about her views on contraception, relationships, etc... It was extremely interesting. We asked her to do the AMA because she was so interesting.

Some posters only wanted to be rude and hostile. Its a pity it was allowed to happen.

MrWalsh · 19-02-2015 5:23pm

Gits_bone wrote: »

The question we all wanted answered was the one that wasn't answered.

Speak for yourself, I had a lot of other questions that Id like her to have answered but because she was shouted down with "WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR MONEY" it was impossible to get a dialogue going.

Mars Bar · 19-02-2015 7:37pm

Gits_bone wrote: »

For example.

I could stand outside my house right now and take a picture of the road and you'll see that a wide road has been narrowed down to almost one lane with cars just abandoned at will. It's like an obstacle course out there. It isn't a stereotype, it's a true observation. I was wondering why there is a lack of respect for property and awareness for where they live.

mikom · 19-02-2015 7:39pm

Mars Bar wrote: »

I could stand outside my house right now and take a picture of the road and you'll see that a wide road has been narrowed down to almost one lane with cars just abandoned at will. It's like an obstacle course out there. It isn't a stereotype, it's a true observation. I was wondering why there is a lack of respect for property and awareness for where they live.

Shush.
You are being rude, hostile and boringly predictable.

Gits_bone · 19-02-2015 8:02pm

MrWalsh wrote: »

Speak for yourself, I had a lot of other questions that Id like her to have answered but because she was shouted down with "WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR MONEY" it was impossible to get a dialogue going.

Would you treat Enda Kenny the same way if he refused to answer an income question?

Omackeral · 19-02-2015 8:14pm

Gits_bone wrote: »

Would you treat Enda Kenny the same way if he refused to answer an income question?

Here, the young one said she didn't know the answer. Get over it. Also, she's not the bloody Taoiseach, stupid comparison. You've done nothing but criticise or moan on this AMA forum. You've been on before saying other threads and suggestions were boring or too mundane for you. Give it a rest.... or maybe put yourself forward.

Tokyo · 19-02-2015 8:21pm

Gits_bone wrote: »

Would you treat Enda Kenny the same way if he refused to answer an income question?

Like pretty much everything in life, there are ways and means of asking these things, and learning to accept the fact that the person may not feel like answering that particular question. And ignoring the public servant angle in your example (we have a right to know what our Taoiseach earns), participating in an AMA doesn't automatically mean that it's open season on the OP.

As for the ways and means, well...

Poster #1: In GENERAL, how do travellers get their income?

Poster #2: Same question.

Poster #3: Hi op,How come travellers tend to have large cashflows and drive big new cars,designer clothes etc without being employed? Is there that much of a return in scrap metal collection?

Poster #4: can I ask again how, generally, do most travellers earn an income?

OP: I don't know because I don't ask. Thats private business

Poster #5: How can some travellers afford €100,000 cars without actually having employment?

...and so on

That's not a reasonable line of questioning IMO, unless you're interrogating someone in a prison cell.

Coupled with the fact that many of the 'questions' being asked were more accusations (So OP, why do travellers do <insert stereotype here>), it's hardly surprising she walked away as she did.

face1990 · 19-02-2015 8:37pm

Gits_bone wrote: »

The question we all wanted answered was the one that wasn't answered.

Being honest, I think a lot of posters wouldnt have relented with that line of questions until she said 'yeah we all live off robbing and theft'. That was the only answer they wanted to hear, and the only answer they would have accepted/believed.

Pushing an agenda rather than trying to engage in any discussion.

Buona Fortuna · 19-02-2015 9:05pm

Sadly the Traveller AMA was an opportunity missed. TG was a young girl from the Traveller Community. She can provide some perspective but she can't answer for the whole community.

challengemaster · 19-02-2015 9:42pm

mike_ie wrote: »

That's not a reasonable line of questioning IMO, unless you're interrogating someone in a prison cell.

Coupled with the fact that many of the 'questions' being asked were more accusations (So OP, why do travellers do <insert stereotype here>), it's hardly surprising she walked away as she did.

Just because you disagree that it's reasonable, doesn't make it so. Going on the quotes you've used, people were asking about the travelling community in general - not TG. They didn't want a break down of her specific income. They just wanted a general idea of how members of the travelling community earn money.

It's clearly a question that a number of people wanted to ask, yet nobody is going to walk up to a traveller and ask to their face. "It's private business" may be true, but it sounds dodgy as hell and seems like avoidance. A generalised answer such as "Some claim the dole, others work manual labour jobs, but I can't speak for everyone" would have gone a long way towards changing peoples perceptions towards travellers.

Travellers have stereotypes associated with them, and rightly or wrongly I'd say in most cases it's because of what people have observed happening with their own eyes. While some questions may seem like accusations, the stereotypes wouldn't exist if (some) travellers didn't do these things in the first place. Again, another case where if handled right TG could have tackled some public perceptions about travellers.

face1990 · 19-02-2015 9:59pm

challengemaster wrote: »

It's clearly a question that a number of people wanted to ask, yet nobody is going to walk up to a traveller and ask to their face. "It's private business" may be true, but it sounds dodgy as hell and seems like avoidance. .

But she's has no obligation to answer any questions. She didn't want to answer it, or didn't feel she was able to answer it.

AMA doesn't work if all questions are obligatory. People can't go demanding that a questions is answered, or demand a 'better' answer.

Tokyo · 19-02-2015 10:01pm

challengemaster wrote: »

Just because you disagree that it's reasonable, doesn't make it so. Going on the quotes you've used, people were asking about the travelling community in general - not TG. They didn't want a break down of her specific income. They just wanted a general idea of how members of the travelling community earn money.

As I mentioned, the issue was less with the question, and more with peoples attitudes:

Hi op,How come travellers tend to have large cashflows and drive big new cars,designer clothes etc without being employed? Is there that much of a return in scrap metal collection?

How can some travellers afford €100,000 cars without actually having employment?

The above wasn't asking a question, or looking for a general idea. At best they could be described as insinuation, at worst, accusation. The fact that people can't engage in reasonable discourse - that lies solely with the poster, not with the OP.

challengemaster · 19-02-2015 10:20pm

mike_ie wrote: »

As I mentioned, the issue was less with the question, and more with peoples attitudes:

The above wasn't asking a question, or looking for a general idea. At best they could be described as insinuation, at worst, accusation. The fact that people can't engage in reasonable discourse - that lies solely with the poster, not with the OP.

It's genuine curiosity IMO. I see two genuine questions, not accusations. Plenty of boardsies work full time jobs or claim social welfare, so would have an idea of what sort of lifestyle is feasible on particular incomes.

evolving_doors · 20-02-2015 12:29am

challengemaster wrote: »

People have these attitudes for a reason - and that lies solely with the travelling community.

It's genuine curiosity IMO. I see two genuine questions, not accusations. Plenty of boardsies work full time jobs or claim social welfare, so would have an idea of what sort of lifestyle is feasible on particular incomes.

There's genuine curiosity and pig ignorance. If you don't get an answer then get off the pot and let someone else ask a different question.. badgering a person (and a mod) about 'having a right to know' is just pathetic (dragging thread off topic 101). Traveller girl is not 'the travelling community', she is not a spokesperson either.

Also, did anyone notice the rate of responses to the announcement in comparison to other AMA's... 173 posts in 6 hours .....compared to 8 days for the same amount in the 'Man With 2 Mothers' (and that was in the mainstream media)? It was simple, a lot of idiots were expecting an individual to atone for the sins of a culture.

Tokyo · 20-02-2015 12:31am

challengemaster wrote: »

People have these attitudes for a reason - and that lies solely with the travelling community.

I rest my case.

KaaaaaaPOW · 20-02-2015 12:44am

Armelodie wrote: »

Also, did anyone notice the rate of responses to the announcement in comparison to other AMA's... 173 posts in 6 hours .....compared to 8 days for the same amount in the 'Man With 2 Mothers' (and that was in the mainstream media)?

Not relevant really^^^.

Luke92 · 20-02-2015 2:53am

Gits_bone wrote: »

Would you treat Enda Kenny the same way if he refused to answer an income question?

Shall I remove that massive chip? Now I don't want to get into this on a charter plan (which has turned into a talk about a traveller thread), but I'll say this once more.

Women in the travelling community are like Carmela Soprano. They have an idea of where the money comes from, but they're told that its from reputable jobs e.g paving, scrap metal, roofing etc...

So they're told by their husbands that the work is totally 100% legal and they're hard workers.

Its her husband/fiance. Who are they to question him? He's feeding her and the kids and they have a roof over their heads. It doesn't matter if she knows in her heart what he does. She is told he sells scrap metal then that's what she tells people.

That's it, its quite simple. Now please for the sake of my sanity, stop going on about it!

Gits_bone · 20-02-2015 9:15am

Luke92 wrote: »

Shall I remove that massive chip? Now I don't want to get into this on a charter plan (which has turned into a talk about a traveller thread), but I'll say this once more.

Women in the travelling community are like Carmela Soprano. They have an idea of where the money comes from, but they're told that its from reputable jobs e.g paving, scrap metal, roofing etc...

So they're told by their husbands that the work is totally 100% legal and they're hard workers.

Its her husband/fiance. Who are they to question him? He's feeding her and the kids and they have a roof over their heads. It doesn't matter if she knows in her heart what he does. She is told he sells scrap metal then that's what she tells people.

That's it, its quite simple. Now please for the sake of my sanity, stop going on about it!

Why have an AMA with a traveller if settled people are going to answer for them?

She refused to say where she got her income.

Threatening to ban users in an "Ask me Anything" is typical of boards really. It should be called "Ask me Some Things but Don't Ask Me Any Controversial Ones Because You Will Get Banned".

Vic_08 · 20-02-2015 9:37am

Gits_bone wrote: »

Why have an AMA with a traveller if settled people are going to answer for them?

She refused to say where she got her income.

Threatening to ban users in an "Ask me Anything" is typical of boards really. It should be called "Ask me Some Things but Don't Ask Me Any Controversial Ones Because You Will Get Banned".

It is "Ask Me Anything" not "I Will Answer Everything".

The girl was asked questions about income and she gave an answer, the only people that got banned were those that would not accept they were not going to get an answer that they liked on the topic.

Asking the question was fine, repeatedly asking it after it was clear she was not going to answer to your satisfaction and harassing her about the topic was not OK.

Gordon · 20-02-2015 9:38am

Gits_bone wrote: »

Would you treat Enda Kenny the same way if he refused to answer an income question?

Considering Enda Kenny is paid to answer the public's questions, and people on AMA are not, but instead doing so out of their own volition, revealing as much private details as they wish or are able to reveal.

Gits_bone wrote: »

Threatening to ban users in an "Ask me Anything" is typical of boards really. It should be called "Ask me Some Things but Don't Ask Me Any Controversial Ones Because You Will Get Banned".

No, just don't be a dick, that's all we ask. If you are a dick, you get banned.

mahamageehad · 20-02-2015 9:46am

I'm glad that AMA happened with TravellerGirl, not least because I suggested it! :cool: /smug

I don't want to continue down this path of complaining about that AMA and how it was dealt with but I think it has brought up some interesting charter issues. Earlier in this thread someone posted about Add a mod note to the OP if the user isn't comfortable asking certain kind of questions and I think it's fair. I thought the mods did a great job giving fair warning and keeping the thread a tad respectful. At one stage it was akin to bullying.

Imagine the same scenario with a different candidate- Miss X, works in an abortion clinic.
Question 1: Why do you kill babies for a living?
Question 2: I don't mean to pry but what caused you to choose a career in foetus murder.
OP: I can't speak for everyone in the profession but for me it's just a job to make ends meet.
Question 3: Do you personally condone baby murder or do you just assist with it.
Question 4: WHY DO YOU MURDER BABY HUMANS????

That line of questioning/harassment wouldn't stand in any other forum on Boards so why should it be allowed here? I think this kind of thing needs to be taken into account in the charter and TravellerGirls thread proved that.

AMA Forum Charter and "Plan" discussion

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