M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

tharlear wrote: »

So it appears you have a choice, build the bypass and allow more 80/90 knocknacarra type suburbs being built that people will buy, city expands "medium density sprawl" . Don't built it and you will get more one offs in the countryside "very low density sprawl". In my view its a case of the perfect being the enemy of the possible.

This seems like incredibly warped logic based on set choices which are not actually set if you ask me. First of all, the choice isn't, or at least shouldn't be, building this bypass or do nothing at all. Other choices were rejected and if (and most likely when) this proposal finally dies other things will again be considered, although a decade will have been lost in between. They pushed ahead with a horrendously expensive, over-engineered 17km long motorway with multiple tunnels and viaducts which is almost certain to never get built, due to planning, environmental or cost reasons. This proposal tries to be all things to all men and so is unnecessarily complex and expensive, the things which are ususally the death knell for infrastructure projects here. They put everything on a horse which was unlikely to start the race, nevermind win it.

I don't see the logic in not building this bypass means "you will get more one offs in the countryside "very low density sprawl"". Surely the opposite is true, building such a bypass will encourage more people to live further from the city in the knowledge miss-guided belief that they will be able to drive in and around the city in reasonable time.

About the only thing that you said which I can agree with is this being "a case of the perfect being the enemy of the possible", in that those welded to their cars think it is perfect to have an end to end bypass but that in itself almost certainly makes it impossible that it will happen.

serfboard wrote: »

If a bypass was to be built then the belief of someone from Clifden that they would be able to avoid the city when travelling to Dublin would be correct. Or someone from Oughterard going to Limerick, or Moycullen to Athlone ...

I don't think it follows that people would believe that building a bypass would mean that you would be able to drive into the city.

Park n' Rides at bypass junctions would take care of that function.

Those journeys don't require a 17km bypass, they could be facilitated with a simpler project.

Many people want the bypass to allow them drive to business parks, etc. on the outskirts of the city, where much of the employment in Galway is. P&Rs have their place but they are of limited use.

serfboard wrote: »

Such as?

Don't disagree with you there which is why I distinguish between the currently planned ring-road (with junctions everywhere) and what I believe is needed, which is a proper grade-separated freeflow bypass with three junctions only - Galway City East (M6), Galway City Centre & Clifden (N59) and Galway City West (R336). Anything else is sub-optimal.

It's academic in any case, as neither will be built for a decade (if ever) and the traffic problem needs solving ASAP with better public transport options and more car free roads - a bit like what Bus Connects is proposing, in fact.

And Bus Park n Rides are definitely needed.

You gave an answer to your own question in your second paragraph. I would suggest that a link between N6 and N59 would be sufficient, for now at least, given that would link all National roads. It could be extended west in future if required. That would knock a chunk off the cost and remove some objections but still requiring the tunnels and viaduct would see the bulk of the cost remain.

Another reduced scope option would be coming off the existing N6 a few hundred metres west of the Tuam Road and only going as far as the connection to N59, not further west. There isnt enough space for a proper junction at the N6/N83 junction so it could be built further west where space is available. A new section of road could link from that junction back to Tuam Road which could allow for reduced movements and more throughput at the existing junction. The space doesn't exist for GSJs at the existing junctions so creating another junction while reducing movement at existing junctions is the best option. The Coolagh roundabout could be eliminated to make N6 freeflow and new a link from Coolagh to Parkmore Road that would also tie into the N67.

The point is there were other options that would address most of the main issues but they went with a serve every suburb option with many difficulties and huge cost and therefore limited chance of actually happening.

The Western arm of this road is the one that's essential to put in place now. If it's left for too long, Galway will sprawl outward and close off the only possible corridor completely.

On everything else, I agree with Pete, above. This route should not be a commercial access road for Galway; it's an essential part of the national road infrastructure, and without it, points Northwest of Galway City have no time-reliable access to the rest of the country.

Three junctions would be sufficient, and they should be with other National roads only.

The current plan is like something from the 1970s: a collector/distributor for every neighbourhood! Didn't they see how expensive that idea became for Cork?

Galway's traffic problems are simple: too many people have no (realistic) option but to travel by car, but there's not enough space for all the cars, and there is literally no extra room to build more roads (this scheme is really the last chance - which is why I'd have preferred it to be a true bypass). The answer to the problem has to involve finding ways of getting people to where they want to go without forcing them to drive there. Much better bus services, maybe even an East-West light rail solution, and make the outer neighbourhoods more pedestrian and cycle friendly.

The N6 would still be needed, of course, but with these other things done, it wouldn't immediately turn into a car-park twice a day.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yep, we made our bed: you don't have to lie in it.

On the "closing of the corridor", I think there are ways that the corridor could possibly be protected. Others on here would be more knowledgeable than me.

Would council be able to rezone the lands needed and block any potential developments along that corridor?
Problem is proposed GCRR crosses Galway city & county boundaries, so it would need cooperation between the 2 LAs

Any news on the project? Been quite on here for a while

Dominik Flabby Pantry wrote: »

I think that its a given this will be appealed, and end up before the courts and go to higher courts etc, if its given the green light.

Honestly I don't see them breaking ground on this until the 2030's if its approved and passes all hurdles

I would hope that they would look at other options rather than continuing to flog this dead horse.

I sometimes think people have a blind-spot when it comes to the meaning of the word "bypass". It should be obvious that a road that bypasses a city is not intended to serve the needs of commuters who want to enter and leave the city. The clue is in the name.

There are two issues.

First: Without doubt, Galway needs a bypass: it's a major bottleneck for traffic that has no interest whatsoever in entering the city.

But, second: The bypass will not fix Galway's own traffic problems. In fact, as designed, it will most likely make them worse. Adding capacity around the city just exacerbates the fundamental problem that there's not enough road capacity within the city for the number cars that try to use it each morning and evening. We should have learned that already from M50 and the Cork South Ring Road.

Galway needs to get some cash together and fix its public transport, fix its cycling provision and start coming up with ways of encouraging people to leave their cars in the driveway (or at least to park them outside the city).

So assuming you oppose the current bypass plan, what is your alternative for people and goods trying to avoid the city on an East-West route?

The funds won't be there for a ring road imo. We'll be paying Covid taxes for decades.

I hope they have a good backup plan. However, I don't really trust they do tbh.