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FAS Work Placement Program

  • 12-03-2010 1:24pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ThomasCreeby


    In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
    Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
    I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
    What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
    This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
    How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
    The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
    Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

    Cheers Boards,

    Thomas


«13456711

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    I am pretty sure there was another thread in the last month or two on this where the issues were debated in detail.

    Obviously it depends on what duties workers are being asked to perform while on placement but the idea seems to be that (a) its some form of experience for people to put on a cv when lookiong for work and (b) better than having people with nothing to do on the dole.

    it can obviously be open to explotaition by employers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 602 ✭✭✭eman66


    Until they can train the monkeys to the required level, FAS work placements will have to continue. It's just business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting.

    im sorry to say it, but it needs to be said

    with your outlook on employment you will remain unemployed for much longer

    welcome to boards.ie :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    You may find it interesting that Labour are currently seeking to hire two people under this scheme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭munstergirl


    There is a big thread on work & jobs forum.
    I think no harm getting work experience for 6 weeks,did it myself many years ago on fas course,
    9 months is just giving employers workers for free.
    Why pay someone to do a job when you can hire someone for free.
    Why is it legal?
    I don't see it helping unemployment at all.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ThomasCreeby


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    im sorry to say it, but it needs to be said

    with your outlook on employment you will remain unemployed for much longer

    welcome to boards.ie :cool:

    Yeah, cheers for your unfunny and unhelpful comment "ei.sdraob" . Ive actually finished college and had to spend a year abroad working before I came back here in hope of finding a suitable position. What a mug I was to think there was any chance of that happening!
    I'd be interested to meet anyone in the developed world who doesnt find cheap labour "disgusting", most of the programs offered on the FAS website are a minimum of 9 months long, thats not an unpaid internship with the prospect of future employment, its making people work a 40 hour week for their dole with no promise of future employment.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    I agree - it is not a good idea.
    It is wrong for a private business to make use of free labour to enrich themselves.

    I have thought previously about hiring someone through this channel just because we can't afford to hire anyone but I find it morally wrong to expect someone to work for 6 months for free.

    Instead the companies should just hire the people for a much lower wage (say 100 quid a week).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Yeah, cheers for your unfunny and unhelpful comment "ei.sdraob" . Ive actually finished college and had to spend a year abroad working before I came back here in hope of finding a suitable position. What a mug I was to think there was any chance of that happening!
    I'd be interested to meet anyone in the developed world who doesnt find cheap labour "disgusting", most of the programs offered on the FAS website are a minimum of 9 months long, thats not an unpaid internship with the prospect of future employment, its making people work a 40 hour week for their dole with no promise of future employment.


    if you don't like it, don't take it, what's the problem?

    and yes you were/are naive thinking that a job will and should be handed to your on a platter

    time will change your mind


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ThomasCreeby


    MaceFace wrote: »
    I agree - it is not a good idea.
    It is wrong for a private business to make use of free labour to enrich themselves.

    I have thought previously about hiring someone through this channel just because we can't afford to hire anyone but I find it morally wrong to expect someone to work for 6 months for free.

    Instead the companies should just hire the people for a much lower wage (say 100 quid a week).

    Exactly Maceface, they dont need to pay people even a full wage but their needs to be reasonable consideration given to someone who comes to work every morning and puts in their hours, where's the incentive if someone isnt doing the same is ending up with the exact same amount of money at the end of the week, not only that but there are also things like travel and food expenses that I have yet to find a company willing to compensate for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    MaceFace wrote: »

    Instead the companies should just hire the people for a much lower wage (say 100 quid a week).

    That would be a bitch to live on until the cost of living balanced.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ThomasCreeby


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    if you don't like it, don't take it, what's the problem?

    and yes you were/are naive thinking that a job will and should be handed to your on a platter

    time will change your mind

    dude, are you actually being serious? or are you just some shut-in on here to make some lame attempts at trolling?
    because im guessing you dont know anything about the WPP scheme judging from that comment. but thanks for "schooling" me on how naive i was being - suggestion noted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Yeah, cheers for your unfunny and unhelpful comment "ei.sdraob" . Ive actually finished college and had to spend a year abroad working before I came back here in hope of finding a suitable position. What a mug I was to think there was any chance of that happening!
    I'd be interested to meet anyone in the developed world who doesnt find cheap labour "disgusting", most of the programs offered on the FAS website are a minimum of 9 months long, thats not an unpaid internship with the prospect of future employment, its making people work a 40 hour week for their dole with no promise of future employment.
    To be fair anything less than nine months is worthless in terms of your CV, this is not transition year in school. This program is well intentioned but employers really should be making a contribution, even 100 euro a week would be an incentive for people to take it up. It will give you experience to carry into your next job which will leave you in a stronger position if we have a recovery and companies start to hire again, that is certainly better than spending nine months on the dole IMO. Can you claim rent supplement while on this programn I wonder? that would soften the blow a bit.

    EDIT: Think you are being a little harsh on ei.sdraob, he was only saying that nobody should expect a job to be waiting for them because they have a third level degree, you are unlucky in that you graduated into a jobs market with no jobs, getting experience is now your no 1 aim, i wouldn't rule out the WPP unless you have a reasonable prospect of securing employment within the short term


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    If I was 24 and lost my job, I'd be out of this country quicker than you can say FAS.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dude, are you actually being serious? or are you just some shut-in on here to make some lame attempts at trolling?
    because im guessing you dont know anything about the WPP scheme judging from that comment. but thanks for "schooling" me on how naive i was being - suggestion noted.

    yes im deadly serious, the reality is that this country is ****ed
    whether you, i, everyone likes it or not

    live with it and get used to it, you grew up knowing nothing but a booming economy so some things might come as a shock to you :(

    that work placement programme is better than no work placement programme
    and getting the dole is better than not getting the dole


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ThomasCreeby


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    yes im deadly serious, the reality is that this country is ****ed
    whether you, i, everyone likes it or not

    live with it and get used to it, you grew up knowing nothing but a booming economy so some things might come as a shock to you :(

    that work placement programme is better than no work placement programme
    and getting the dole is better than not getting the dole

    Thank you for yet another inspiring and insightful gem of wisdom.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Thank you for yet another inspiring and insightful gem of wisdom.

    What you want me to say? What did you want to hear by starting this thread?? Here goes so:


    The government will create thousands of jobs and everything will be booming again and we can all get back to selling houses to one another

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ThomasCreeby


    I'll refer you to my previous post...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    hobochris wrote: »
    That would be a bitch to live on until the cost of living balanced.

    True, but it will either result in people applying and getting the job, or it will result in the employer having to raise the salary for the position.

    Either way, unless an employer is going to pony up for something that will help him get richer, they should be avoided.

    Reminds me of the Seinfield episode when Kramer gets an intern :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    MaceFace wrote: »
    I find it morally wrong to expect someone to work for 6 months for free.

    How are they working "for free" ?

    I think it's more morally wrong to expect hard-pushed people barely breaking even to pay higher taxes so that people can be paid "for doing nothing".

    Yes, it needs to be handled better, but if I was doing nothing and had to get dole, I'd have no problem working for it.

    Aside from the cash and the social aspect of it, it would be experience and less soul-destroying, and (again if it were done right) would could also help a community.

    Whether it's a good idea to work for commercial companies trying to make a massive profit is another story, but even when it's proposed for non-commercial community schemes someone always says "oh, that's stopping companies from a business opportunity".

    The bottom line is that no-one is entitled to something for absolutely nothing; and if the powers-that-be can balance that properly, people should be glad of what they can get, and should be prepared to do something in return.




  • ei.sdraob wrote: »
    im sorry to say it, but it needs to be said

    with your outlook on employment you will remain unemployed for much longer

    welcome to boards.ie :cool:

    Its simply more state interference in the correction, propping up businesses by paying for employees only prolongs the necessary correction that recessions bring.

    It is disgusting by the way. Its less than minimum wage - why didnt they get rid of the minimum wage? Why didnt they reduce the dole across the board and those who take up the WPP1 scheme get paid more as an incentive to work.

    Anyone working under this scheme will feel undervalued when they work alongside people who are paid in full.

    Quite simply its damn hard to make ends meet when your on the dole and paying for transport to and from work. Its merely a govt incentive for the young to emigrate


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  • Liam Byrne wrote: »
    How are they working "for free" ?

    I think it's more morally wrong to expect hard-pushed people barely breaking even to pay higher taxes so that people can be paid "for doing nothing".

    Yes, it needs to be handled better, but if I was doing nothing and had to get dole, I'd have no problem working for it.

    Aside from the cash and the social aspect of it, it would be experience and less soul-destroying, and (again if it were done right) would could also help a community.

    Whether it's a good idea to work for commercial companies trying to make a massive profit is another story, but even when it's proposed for non-commercial community schemes someone always says "oh, that's stopping companies from a business opportunity".

    Its all well and good in theory but when you dont reduce the minimum wage or the dole in general when introducing a scheme like this it becomes worthless. It does nothing to combat the real issues regarding the problems doing business here in Ireland - companies who leave Ireland cite a few main reasons for doing so:
    Wage Costs
    Rent Costs
    Insurance and Electricity costs

    This scheme is a temporary 9 month scheme and does not combat wage costs unless you want the entire work force replaced by WPP1 workers.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    The bottom line is that no-one is entitled to something for absolutely nothing; and if the powers-that-be can balance that properly, people should be glad of what they can get, and should be prepared to do something in return.
    You write "no one is entitled to something for absolutely nothing" so why is it that employers are entitled to employees for free? Then you write "and should be prepared to do something in return" - why cant the employers do something in return for the free workers they get?

    Ive paid my Pay Related Social INSURANCE any dole I ever claim is my money. Thank God Ive never had to but scheme is a joke.




  • ei.sdraob wrote: »
    yes im deadly serious, the reality is that this country is ****ed
    whether you, i, everyone likes it or not

    live with it and get used to it, you grew up knowing nothing but a booming economy so some things might come as a shock to you :(

    that work placement programme is better than no work placement programme
    and getting the dole is better than not getting the dole


    It is ****ed and having our government pay private sector wages is insanity. Its a negative externality and employers using the WPP1 scheme become free riders - the goddamn very least the govt could do is make employers pay enough to match the minimum wage or pay something FFS


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    the goddamn very least the govt could do is make employers pay enough to match the minimum wage or pay something FFS

    Yes, I would agree with this part of it. At the very least the difference between the dole and the minimum wages would cover necessities like the cost of transport to and from work which wouldn't otherwise be incurred.

    Of course, ideally the "minimum wage" wouldn't be required, in terms of companies valuing employees and the cost of living (surviving?) in this country being reasonable and fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Thank you for yet another inspiring and insightful gem of wisdom.

    It's sad but true. The "boom" was all "fur coat and no knickers", unless outside companies come to irleand or home grown companies that can export grow ireland is f***ed.
    With regards to the scheme if it's companies that are getting employees for very cheap where they are filling a gap they would otherwise have to pay then fair enough but some companies might not be bale to afford permanent staff (it can happen) and having someone come in for cheap can be beneficial to both parties. Sometimes in life you have to do things you don't like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    there has been a discusion over on the work&jobs section i came accross employers advertising for wpp1/2 now this scheme is for people that have NO work experience in their field.
    one advert stated that an employee must be over 25 for insurance purpose,have at least 5 years experience and the list goes on these employers(which i know off)are looking for free labour absolute disgrace:mad:


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ Zander Moldy Umpire


    In order to be eligible, don't the companies need to have X amount of employees and not have had any redundancies in the last x amount of months? (Not sure of the numbers?)


    Doesn't sound like the kind of program intended to help small businesses in the first place.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    A lot of employers are actually giving people on this cash in hand at the end of the week - there is nothing in the rules that stop this. I know of a guy who worked for a certain company every holiday period from college for the past 4 years. He has now graduated and is being hired on this scheme. The scheme states it is a way for an employer to hire someone and get to know them - how does he meet that?

    It is basically a scheme that allows the government to say that the live register has fallen by whatever amount in an attempt to make themselves look better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    I don't know what your getting worked up about OP.

    I worked on a similar scheme at the start of the '90's.
    I worked for a company for 12 months.

    The experience I gains has stood me well for the past 20 years in full time employment.
    I was able to use the experience I gained to move on to a better position, and I've never regreted doing it.

    If you apply for a job, not having any relevant experience, do you expect an employer to be excited about the prospect of employing you?
    Should they be priviliged to have such a worthy candidate?

    Or maybe they will just be realistic and give the job to a candidate that got off their arse and made an effert to gain experience in the workplace.


    As a previous poster said, the Celtic Tiger breed a new type of undergraduate.
    They expect a job to fall into their laps.

    Time for a reality check OP.

    You get nothing in this life for nothing. It takes hard work, effort and sacrifice.

    Get yourself on one of these schemes and start being proactive instead of coming onto a forum and complaining about "Slave Labour"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    I'll give you an even better example shall I.

    A good friend finished his degree and post grad around the same time as me.
    He realised that he had no real time experience, so he organised a placement with a financial company in Belfast.

    He spent 12 months there with only his dole.

    He then went to New York, were he's worked on Wall Street ever since.
    He has always maintained that the real world experience he got in Belfast laid the foundation for the rest of his career.

    There is much less of a "Can Do" attitude nowadays, more of a "Give It To Me" attitdue.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 bmccaff


    This is prime example below as to how this is abused in my area.

    http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10575_18&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=23&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

    After 9 months how would this help any college graduate with their future career.
    This so called experience could be learned in one week.
    This is keeping one more unskilled worker or school leaver out of work and is a disgrace that the government supports this.

    Only person that gains here is shop owner


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