Irish Deer Society "member" convicted of dumping deer carcasses.

Grizzly 45 · 14-06-2009 7:10pm

jwshooter wrote: »

do you use a ladder to get down of your cross ever monring ?

Pithy JW! Expected better from you!
No,rose three days later from the dead actually!

you would want to get a man with a young family sacked from his job for no reason .

No reason,well maybe he should have considerd this before he started throwing his weight about and "poaching" outside his civil service remit.If this is true and provable..
Cuts no ice witn me "young man and family" BS.Do the crime,do the time if convicted and found guilty.
He obviously didnt learn much in Germany about exceeding his authorithy.Were this in Germany he would be on suspension proably without pay,if such an allegation was made about a civil servant.Bet you he isnt in that situation now.

thedragon · 14-06-2009 7:15pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That came out wrong!I meant was if he is cleared and there is still lingering suspicion he should be asked to resign.As it says the system has to be impartial and above board as possible.We need trust in the system,no smoke without fire and all that.

He has just a much a right to reply as has any other person to the press in Ireland.Why shouldnt there be a public intrest in it??

Ummm intresting concept of freedom of the press and public right to know and comment ,and transperency of justice there.Would work pretty well in N Korea or Soviet Russia.

That my dear man has been always been the case here in Ireland!! If you dont belive this have a read of some of our law firearms law included.The onus is a Hell of a lot on the defence to prove their innocence in a court of law.:(

It would seem very obvious to me that this man is getting a bit of support from 1 or 2 individuals.Im wondering how many commercial hunters we have on Boards.Anyone care to comment on that.I bet my life if the guys who post supportive comments about Mark Byrne,were known,Id say theyr all commercial men,shooting for money.

jwshooter · 14-06-2009 7:55pm

thedragon wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It would seem very obvious to me that this man is getting a bit of support from 1 or 2 individuals.Im wondering how many commercial hunters we have on Boards.Anyone care to comment on that.I bet my life if the guys who post supportive comments about Mark Byrne,were known,Id say theyr all commercial men,shooting for money.

the reason this man is getting support is he is a wild life ranger that is been accused of doing some thing he did not do .

the only problem with him is he is to good at his job for the likes of some

thedragon · 14-06-2009 8:06pm

jwshooter wrote: »

thedragon wrote: »

the reason this man is getting support is he is a wild life ranger that is been accused of doing some thing he did not do .

the only problem with him is he is to good at his job for the likes of some

Yo seem very sure about that.I wont argue with you.Just watch the newspapers in the coming weeks and youll see how inocent he is.

Grizzly 45 · 14-06-2009 8:24pm

jwshooter wrote: »

thedragon wrote: »

the reason this man is getting support is he is a wild life ranger that is been accused of doing some thing he did not do .

the only problem with him is he is to good at his job for the likes of some

Could you re edit that last post JW,as you have attributed The Dragons post to me.Thanks!

Deerhunter2 · 14-06-2009 8:25pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That came out wrong!I meant was if he is cleared and there is still lingering suspicion he should be asked to resign.As it says the system has to be impartial and above board as possible.We need trust in the system,no smoke without fire and all that.

true, but who is poking the fire and why are they throwing petrol on it.
a person makes a plan for a business, then decides not to go ahead onece he discovers it is a conflict of interest, what is he guitly of, thinking. the plan falls into the wrong hands years later and it is tagged onto another story of a clearly corrupt ranger. why are people concentrating on mark byrne when the sligo lad has done much worse and has be found to be wrong?

if you thought about doing something an then figured out it was illegal before doing it and stopped, would you have committed an offence.

He has just a much a right to reply as has any other person to the press in Ireland.Why shouldnt there be a public intrest in it??

no he has not!! look up the civil service code of practice and you will see that they are forbidden to speak to the press unless they get approval from their press office, they can't defend themselves and their empolyers won't be bothered

Ummm intresting concept of freedom of the press and public right to know and comment ,and transperency of justice there.Would work pretty well in N Korea or Soviet Russia.

it's not fair play, and look how people twist things, you accuse him of being a poacher now, people just keep adding their own little bits:rolleyes: its a juicy story designed to ruin a man.:mad:

That my dear man has been always been the case here in Ireland!! If you dont belive this have a read of some of our law firearms law included.The onus is a Hell of a lot on the defence to prove their innocence in a court of law.:(

so that makes it alright then for you to shout off with his head and name him a poacher before he has a fair hearing:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No reason,well maybe he should have considerd this before he started throwing his weight about and "poaching" outside his civil service remit.If this is true and provable..
Cuts no ice witn me "young man and family" BS.Do the crime,do the time if convicted and found guilty.
He obviously didnt learn much in Germany about exceeding his authorithy.Were this in Germany he would be on suspension proably without pay,if such an allegation was made about a civil servant.Bet you he isnt in that situation now.

sorry have you read something the rest of us missed? i believe it was part of his job in germany to take out paying guests.

thedragon wrote: »

It would seem very obvious to me that this man is getting a bit of support from 1 or 2 individuals.Im wondering how many commercial hunters we have on Boards.Anyone care to comment on that.I bet my life if the guys who post supportive comments about Mark Byrne,were known,Id say theyr all commercial men,shooting for money.

you would lose that bet if you are referring to me, i met the man a few times and spoke to him, he checked my licence and permissions and i was fine with dat. delighted to see him doing his job, i didn't come here to defend him i am here because of those defending paul woods and the attempt to water down his disgraceful actions. i am here to put the story straight about a man that has been proven to be guilty by a court of law.

i hate to see somebody don wrong and i know mark byrne is being scapegoated and tormented by poachers who hate him for doing his job and his passion for deer hunting, they killed his dogs they terrorised his family and they are ruining his good name with the media and vicious rumors, the corruption lies soley with the poachers. mark byrnes problem is he was too dedicated to his job. no body new rangers existed in that part of the country till he showed up and rocked the poaching world, previous npws staff were in cohoots wit the poachers, drive by shooting is poaching, done by the vast majority of deer shooters in the west. why are you so intent on putting him down? you seem like one of his enemies? what will ye do next to him? this thread was about a convicted man paul woods and his disgraceful actions but some have used it as an excuse to have another go at their sworn enemy, the ranger.

jwshooter · 14-06-2009 8:28pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

jwshooter wrote: »

Could you re edit that last post JW,as you have attributed The Dragons post to me.Thanks!

there is some problem with the posting system i thing

jwshooter · 14-06-2009 8:34pm

we have a short saying in our parts . "know alls know <not much> "

bunny shooter · 14-06-2009 8:56pm

we have a saying in our parts "smoke and mirrors"

Grizzly 45 · 14-06-2009 9:05pm

Deerhunter2 wrote: »

true, but who is poking the fire and why are they throwing petrol on it.
a person makes a plan for a business, then decides not to go ahead onece he discovers it is a conflict of interest, what is he guitly of, thinking. the plan falls into the wrong hands years later and it is tagged onto another story of a clearly corrupt ranger. why are people concentrating on mark byrne when the sligo lad has done much worse and has be found to be wrong?

if you thought about doing something an then figured out it was illegal before doing it and stopped, would you have committed an offence.

Well ask yourself this.WHAT would the other fellow risk by bringing this up?Being discredited,or had for perjury would be two risks as well.
WHY would he bring this up?And WHY especially in a UK newspaper? Are the Irish papers not intrested or too cowed to carry this story?
If I go and accuse somone of somthing in a national paper,I would want to have some substantial evidence or proof.I seriously doubt it is a conspircy of a group of poachers to go to the UK Times with some tall tale.

no he has not!! look up the civil service code of practice and you will see that they are forbidden to speak to the press unless they get approval from their press office, they can't defend themselves and their empolyers won't be bothered

And you dont think that will be forthcoming in this case???Oh PLEESEE!!
You EVER seen a state offical being denied that right here???I havent!

it's not fair play, and look how people twist things, you accuse him of being a poacher now, people just keep adding their own little bits:rolleyes: its a juicy story designed to ruin a man.:mad:

No just responding to your idea of how a democratic processof freedom of the press and opinion should be subverted to a fascist dictatorial system.:mad: What next?Star Chambers??

so that makes it alright then for you to shout off with his head and name him a poacher before he has a fair hearing:rolleyes:

To use an old Irish adage Thats the way it is! You said it is not true that you are guilty until proven innocent.I showed you that Irish law is like that,you cant accept that judical fact it seems.So unfortunatly this fellow can be judged by the public perception this way.

sorry have you read something the rest of us missed? i believe it was part of his job in germany to take out paying guests.

Well that would be CRAP for a start!:mad: You dont take paying guests out shooting in Germany!You have a hunting liscense and are invited by the lease owner who has a hunting liscense as well to shoot on a reserve!The Germans dont have a free for all system with rangers taking paying guests in State forests .They have a cull plan that is carried out by the state rangers themselves![Usually very badly..Shoot X numbers of deer ,hinds etc,and damn slectivity of good stock..Numbers count:mad:]
There would be Hell to pay if a private hunter was hunting on state lands!
Any sort of nonsense like this would have had suspensions pending independant investigations by the police or sackings prior to criminal prosecutions!

Personally I could care less wether Mr Bryne is guilty or innocent.
However I do belive there is more to this story on either side,and that as per usual in Ireland both sides belive in clouding the issues with half truths,heresay,etc.
However what puts me off is he is going to be investigated by his own??Not by an independant body??Isnt everyone getting tired of this here??We have had this long enough here in various institutions .So excuse me if I feel like many others here abit cynical to the possible outcome of this??

bunny shooter · 14-06-2009 9:57pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.......However I do belive there is more to this story on either side,.............

Definately

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.......and that as per usual in Ireland both sides belive in clouding the issues with half truths,heresay,etc.............

Ya, "smoke & mirrors" :rolleyes:

jwshooter · 14-06-2009 10:04pm

as per usual ireland ,think the wosrt, wish the worst and hope no one is getting on better than you are .

i wait till the report is out.

there is enough lads trying to make up storys as it is .

marlin vs · 14-06-2009 10:39pm

Too much time on you'r hand's lad's, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, ye need to get back out into the countryside, it's a famous sayin'g DIVIDE AND CONCOUR, and here it's happening.

kakashka · 15-06-2009 12:10am

jwshooter wrote: »

the reason this man is getting support is he is a wild life ranger that is been accused of doing some thing he did not do .

the only problem with him is he is to good at his job for the likes of some

And you would not be bias in any particular way for any particular reason JWya would you????

Sparks · 15-06-2009 12:21am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

WHY especially in a UK newspaper? Are the Irish papers not intrested or too cowed to carry this story?

I'd suggest that there might be far a simpler explanation - namely that there is less legal risk to a UK newspaper to run a sensationalist story than there is here because of differences in libel laws.

If I go and accuse somone of somthing in a national paper,I would want to have some substantial evidence or proof.

Which is fair enough since if all you have is a gut feeling, you're pretty much just gossiping.

You EVER seen a state offical being denied that right here???I havent!

Then you've not really being paying attention Grizzly, it's pretty commonplace. And it's not actually a "right", which is why they're denied it.

No just responding to your idea of how a democratic process of freedom of the press and opinion should be subverted to a fascist dictatorial system

Okay, hold on. Seriously. Freedom of the press is rather an important part of a functioning democracy, yes, but "opinion"?
Democracies don't rise and fall on the right to gossip

You said it is not true that you are guilty until proven innocent.I showed you that Irish law is like that

Actually, that's spot-on correct, in areas like libel law at least. It's up to the accused to prove their innocence in such cases.

thedragon · 15-06-2009 12:21am

kakashka wrote: »

And you would not be bias in any particular way for any particular reason JWya would you????

Kakashka,do you suspect that there may be just a little touch of "Honour among thieves" here. Thats the smell Ive been getting here too.

kakashka · 15-06-2009 12:27am

thedragon wrote: »

Kakashka,do you suspect that there may be just a little touch of "Honour among thieves" here. Thats the smell Ive been getting here too.

Oooooh yeahhhh, that smell been lingering on Boards for quite a while now dragon

bunny shooter · 15-06-2009 12:28am

"thieves" is not the word .............................. "Sporting Agents" is the PC term I think :P

kakashka · 15-06-2009 12:42am

Awh jeez,hard enough for me to type without having to hold my nose at same time,those sporting agents sure do pong!!:eek::eek:

Deerhunter2 · 15-06-2009 12:47am

mark byrne is under investigation for a breach of the civil service code of practice, conflict of interest, he is not under investigation for anything illegal and it is an internal civil service issue to the best of my knowledge and is not for the court system to deal with. if he gets sacked he's guilty, if not he's innocent. give the guy a break, he didn't break any law, unlike mr woods who this thread originally started for.
commerical shooting is not illegal in this country, people talk about it like it is a great evil, i'm not involved in it but i travel all over the world to hunt and this would not be possible without commerical hunting, it has saved many species around, look at all the ground put aside for wild animals for hunting in africa.

kakashka · 15-06-2009 1:11am

jwshooter wrote: »

two of them one night fired at a eye the eye went out and came back again they fired again and again. 3 shots with a 25,06 .when they went to look it turned out to be a reflector on the pedal of a old bike.

Thats an old one at this stage.

bunny shooter · 15-06-2009 1:16am

Deerhunter2 wrote: »

mark byrne is under investigation for a breach of the civil service code of practice, conflict of interest, he is not under investigation for anything illegal and it is an internal civil service issue to the best of my knowledge and is not for the court system to deal with..

oh that old chestnut :rolleyes: ........Sure it's only a little bit illegal

"conflict of interest" is that like insider dealing ? only a lot less illegal

"ah sure it's only illegal if ya get caught" kinda thing ?

Deerhunter2 · 15-06-2009 1:37am

bunny shooter wrote: »

oh that old chestnut :rolleyes: ........Sure it's only a little bit illegal

"conflict of interest" is that like insider dealing ? only a lot less illegal

"ah sure it's only illegal if ya get caught" kinda thing ?

honestly what are ya on about, it is a not law, its a term of employment, not less illegal, it's not illegal, somebody said he was doing wrong and his employer is looking into it. ye just don't give up, typical irish hunters, jealous hangmen, who detest anybody that might shoot some thing before they do or stop them from getting wat they want, as for foreign hunters or outsider, oh they are the most hated of all.:mad:

kakashka · 15-06-2009 1:39am

Deerhunter2 wrote: »

if he gets sacked he's guilty, if not he's innocent. give the guy a break,

Sacked!!give me a break

kakashka · 15-06-2009 1:51am

Deerhunter2 wrote: »

honestly what are ya on about, it is a not law, its a term of employment, not less illegal, it's not illegal, somebody said he was doing wrong and his employer is looking into it. ye just don't give up, typical irish hunters, jealous hangmen, who detest anybody that might shoot some thing before they do or stop them from getting wat they want, as for foreign hunters or outsider, oh they are the most hated of all.:mad:

And lets not forget who his employer is after all
Jealous??i think not,just seen it all too many times
Foreign hunters- i love them.

Deerhunter2 · 15-06-2009 2:06am

kakashka wrote: »

And lets not forget who his employer is after all
Jealous??i think not,just seen it all too many times
Foreign hunters- i love them.

well naturally ye hate npws and all that work for them, ye look on them as if they were the landlords of old, they might tell ye what to do or stop ye from yer form of huntin, be that drive by or lampin or huntin without permission, ye love foreign hunters as long as they don't step foot in ireland and try shoot yer game, yes jealous!!! i've seen it all too many times too:rolleyes:

fair enough they may not be able to sack him if he's guilty but they would issue a formal warnin, but i suppose that wouldnt but good enough for the blood thirsty here, they would have all procedure thrown out the window and have him sacked without question or due proces or public floggin, oh sorry ye have done that already:mad:

bunny shooter · 15-06-2009 2:36am

Deerhunter2 wrote: »

honestly what are ya on about, it is a not law, its a term of employment, not less illegal, it's not illegal, somebody said he was doing wrong and his employer is looking into it. ye just don't give up, typical irish hunters, jealous hangmen, who detest anybody that might shoot some thing before they do or stop them from getting wat they want, as for foreign hunters or outsider, oh they are the most hated of all.:mad:

Let me put it simply for you a "conflict of interest" is a situation in which a public official's decisions are influenced by the official's personal interests, do I need to elaborate for you?

Terms of employment are legally binding on both employee and employer and if broken by either side can lead to legal proceedings/disciplinary action being taken by either side.

If this person is found to be abusing his position he should be sacked, end of ! Those responsible for enforcing the law should not be above the law IMO.

Deerhunter2 · 15-06-2009 3:17am

bunny shooter wrote: »

Let me put it simply for you a "conflict of interest" is a situation in which a public official's decisions are influenced by the official's personal interests, do I need to elaborate for you?

Terms of employment are legally binding on both employee and employer and if broken by either side can lead to legal proceedings/disciplinary action being taken by either side.

If this person is found to be abusing his position he should be sacked, end of ! Those responsible for enforcing the law should not be above the law IMO.

if he is guilty of abusing his position then i agree he should recieve disciplinary action and if that means sackin him then fine, if it's a formal warning then thats fine too, those resposible for enforcing the law are also entitled to have in applied to them like everybody else, due process and fairness!! it is not for everybody here to decide his outcome based on what was wrote in a paper, allegations are not proof of guilt. why have people targeted the man that has nothing proven against him and ignore the other ranger that was proven to be wrong, why are ye not looking to see him sacked, he did much worse than mark byrne was alledged to have don, why aren't ye asking what the deer society are doing about their chairman that got a 6 month jail sentance for dumping headless deer in a stream. they have been found guilty, but ye'd rather have yer own trial here wher ye can decide whos guilty, defence will not be accepted and rumor and half truth are admissable as evidence, the only outcome can be a man losing his job and his name being blackened.
well done lads, ye are decent human beings, i give you the boards court and jury:mad: if you cant beat em join em, hang him and be done wit it:rolleyes:

bunny shooter · 15-06-2009 4:33am

http://www.irishdeersociety.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81:ethics-for-the-deer-stalker&catid=55:hunting&Itemid=42

Interesting read :cool:

Grizzly 45 · 15-06-2009 10:38am

.

Then you've not really being paying attention Grizzly, it's pretty commonplace. And it's not actually a "right", which is why they're denied it.:D

So no Govt dept,that has it's staff wrongly accused,and cleared of wrong doing in a court of law,isnt going to use the opportunity to show that they are the "good guys" and above all suspicion???

Okay, hold on. Seriously. Freedom of the press is rather an important part of a functioning democracy, yes, but "opinion"?
Democracies don't rise and fall on the right to gossip

Sparks, you missed the point there.I was commenting on Deerhunter2's comment about how the press shouldnt comment on anything before the courts or under investigation.The idea that all should be kept in secrecy from the public until a guilty or innocent verdict is pronounced is not right,or compareable with the judical process in a democracy.

Actually, that's spot-on correct, in areas like libel law at least. It's up to the accused to prove their innocence in such cases.

Not to mind our firearms laws,criminal laws,tax laws,property laws.
There is plenty of "onous on the defendant" wording in there.:(

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Irish Deer Society "member" convicted of dumping deer carcasses.

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