Paying VAT on a new Motorbike/Scooter?

Although if the ride down was 6000km and took you 6 months then you'd probably not have to pay it!

PWEI wrote: »

But how can you bring it to the VRT office if you don't have a Registration number?


Thanks for all the replies.

you'll have to get a van

Will the bike be registered in the UK already, ie; has a UK V5 and registration plate?

How is the UK dealer not charging you VAT? Are you providing a VAT number to them?

The 'proper' process is pay the UK VAT, at VRT time you pay the Irish VAT, and then claim back the UK VAT. Horrendous, but that's how it's supposed to be.

You'll need to present your receipt and invoice to VRT office, which will show 0 VAT, and you will need to fill in the VAT Number of the dealer on the VRT PD2 form. That may raise some questions for you and the dealer. Make sure they are properly aware.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/documents/vrt/form-vrtvpd2.pdf

thos wrote: »

Will the bike be registered in the UK already, ie; has a UK V5 and registration plate?

How is the UK dealer not charging you VAT? Are you providing a VAT number to them?

The 'proper' process is pay the UK VAT, at VRT time you pay the Irish VAT, and then claim back the UK VAT. Horrendous, but that's how it's supposed to be.

You'll need to present your receipt and invoice to VRT office, which will show 0 VAT, and you will need to fill in the VAT Number of the dealer on the VRT PD2 form. That may raise some questions for you and the dealer. Make sure they are properly aware.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/documents/vrt/form-vrtvpd2.pdf

That's not the 'proper' process. If it's a new means of transport, either less than 6 months old/6000km, then it's sold less VAT. You use the VAT411 form to do that. I've done it twice now, with cars but same process.

stesaurus wrote: »

That's not the 'proper' process. If it's a new means of transport, either less than 6 months old/6000km, then it's sold less VAT. You use the VAT411 form to do that. I've done it twice now, with cars but same process.

OK, so VAT411 says "Use this form to report when a new means of transport is bought or sold in the UK and will be removed to an EU state within 2 months, where the buyer isn’t registered for VAT"

But in the case of 2-6months old / <6000km, the bike could still be registered, so while still liable for VAT here, I don't see how there is an exception for not paying the VAT in the UK - again talking pre-registered bikes here.

I had a few dealers trying to sell me ex-demo bikes, which are VAT'able, they wanted to sell them ex-VAT, but needed a VAT number from me. Two separate dealers in NI.

So, sounds like with VAT411, there is no UK VAT for brand new or <2 months old, but you then pay VAT here.
2-6 months < 6000km, you're stung for VAT here, and sounds like you can't get away from it in UK unless you're VAT registered.
>6 months / >6000k, no issues with paying VAT here, but you're probably getting stung for VAT in UK, unless you've got a VAT number.

Is that it?

@thos, you got the gist of it, but not quite all of it, I think. VAT and VRT are complex, and I do not pretend to be an expert. Having said that, I think you are might be confusing the concept of a new means of transport (NMT) with the time that has passed from its registration in UK. NMT is explained in UK VAT Notice 728.

You ask:

thos wrote: »

But in the case of 2-6months old / <6000km, the bike could still be registered, so while still liable for VAT here, I don't see how there is an exception for not paying the VAT in the UK - again talking pre-registered bikes here.

I am not sure which “here” you are referring to at the end of the question—that bike could not have been pre-registered in Ireland, so I assume you mean it has been already registered in UK.

If it has been registered in UK for more than 2 months, but less than 6, it can be still considered NMT and VAT411 might apply.—as long, however, as no more than 2 months have passed since its “entry into service” (see section 2.3). This is tricky, because if the bike was used, for example, for a demo ride, it is deemed to have entered into service. VAT411 does not apply if more than 2 months passed since entry into service. In the situation you have described, the bike has been road taxed in UK at its (pre)registration. Unless you could successfully argue with HMRC that it had not entered into service yet—for instance, because it still has zero mileage—the seller has to charge UK VAT on it to the consumer who is buying it—so you are right, there is no way to avoid paying UK VAT if you are a personal buyer in this case.


—as long, however, as no more than 6 months have passed since its “entry into service” (see section 2.3). This may get tricky, because if the bike was used, for example, for a demo ride prior to its registration, it is deemed to have entered into service earlier. VAT411 does not apply if more than 6 months passed since entry into service. Further, if using VAT411 bike has to be removed from UK and taxed in Ireland within 2 months, or UK VAT will become liable. In the situation you have described, the bike has been road taxed in UK at its (pre)registration. As long as you can successfully argue with HMRC that it had not entered into service much earlier—for instance, because it still has low or zero mileage—and you use the VAT411 form, the seller does not have to charge UK VAT on it to the consumer who is buying it. Otherwise, the seller has to charge full UK VAT.

Either way, you can drive it legally, assuming you would find someone to insure it for you for the journey. Once you got to Ireland, you would have to pay Irish VAT—even if UK VAT has already been paid there. You would also have to pay the Irish VRT. You can, afterwards, apply for UK VAT to be refunded, which is a complex procedure, compared to UK VAT411, which allows you to buy it without paying any VAT in UK.

Alternatively, buy a bike in UK that has never been registered there. It does not matter how many months it has been sitting at the dealers—preferably as long as it had not been used for demos on the red dealer plates (so as not to trigger the “entry into service” clause). Even if it is year old, as long as it had no UK registration and no entry into service, it is NMT and you can buy it without paying UK VAT as long as you go the VAT411 route. You could use VAT411 even if it had been registered fewer than 6 months earlier and has less than 6000km on the clock. All of this assumes the dealer wants to cooperate—not all of them do, as they take a risk that if no VAT were subsequently paid in another EU country, HMRC would ask them for it, saddling them with a loss. This is one of the reasons they should want you to have it registered and taxed in Ireland on the day of arrival here.

If it had not been registered in UK, you would not be able to legally ride it (no licence plates etc) and it would have to be delivered, in a van, preferably straight to the Irish Revenue location for VAT and VRT.

All in all, you may find that UK dealers are not too keen on selling bikes without having them registered in UK first. This is because they get considerable registration-linked bonuses, which they would miss out on. That is also another reason why they like to pre-register bikes in UK, not something of an issue in Ireland, with our smaller market and fewer dealer incentives, to the best of my knowledge.

The sweet-spot for VAT411 to apply and to make both the dealer and you happy is to find a bike that had been pre-registered in UK no earlier than 6 months prior to you buying it, has definitely less than 6000km on the clock (should be easy) and no implication that it had entered into service, eg. as a long-term demo bike prior to those 6 months. In that case VAT411 applies, you could legally ride it to Ireland if you insure it—this will be tricky as you may need to temporarily register it in UK with a UK address—and you get to complete all Irish VAT and VRT on the day you get it here, which must be still within the 2 months of its sale to you. Van shipping makes things a little easier. As @stesaurus said, few UK dealers are versed in this.

PWEI wrote: »

I spoke to the VRT booking line and they advised me that I had to Logon to Revenue.ie and upload the Certificate of Conformity before my appointment. So I scanned the document and tried that but it won't accept a pdf document only xml format. I then converted the document to xml but they won't accept a converted document either and it says if you don't have the original Certificate of Conformity in xml format you have to input the Certificate manualy.
I spent six hours trying to manually input it yesterday but some of the information they are looking for is not on the Certificate.
I'm really at a loss what to do now.
All I want to do is pay the vat and vrt and get the bike on the road.

Wrong thread

Rafal wrote: »

I am curious how could it save you money, unless you are getting a better price in NI than here. Irish VAT is higher than UK (23% vs 20%) and so is the VRT. Assuming a similar net selling price, you’d pay more in Ireland’s taxes than in NI. However, if you are getting a good deal there, of course it makes sense, despite the higher taxes.

Watch out for the registration number that you would get in NI. If it comes from the special pool of licence plate VAT-free numbers, which are reserved for VAT411 purposes, you may find it harder to insure it for the trip down. Does not matter if you ship in a van.

You will pay Irish VAT on a new bike, which is <6 months old or <6k km, when you register it here. Its much easier to not pay UK VAT than reclaim it after paying the Irish VAT. VRT is a set amount and with Sterling low its a good time to buy. There's also issues with some Irish distributors.

Though I thought that form 411 means that you can be the 1st owner and not the 2nd.

galwaytt wrote: »

Get the selling dealer to supply you the CoC in xml format.

Wrong thread

Call dealer in NI tell him to reg. the bike, he can call you back with new NI reg.number.
Bike will sail through in nct centre, pay vrt and vat.

PWEI wrote: »

If I register it in Northern Ireland, I’ll end up paying VAT twice, in the North & VAT in the south.

Not necessarily. If you use VAT411 procedure you *can* have a UK licence number allocated from a VAT-free pool. However, you’re likely to find it harder to insure and drive on that number. Otherwise use VAT411, don’t register in NI and have it shipped in a van to VRT and VAT in Ireland. Read up on VAT411, it can save you a lot of hassle, as long as the dealer wants to take part.

Did you get this sorted please and how? I am in the same situation and ready to go mad lol!