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Ireland u20 6 nations and world championship 2021

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Comments

  • #482
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »
    Why? He is very raw as a rugby player.. all the other backrows who have played ahead of him are higher rated than him.

    no he's not. what a lazy statement. i was sort of waiting for it.

    did you get a list of all the "rated" lads. seeing there's what only 4 Munster lads in the squad, if he's rated lowly Munster are in trouble. He;s highly rated, played all the way through and played Munster A.

    Clearly Kendellan's one of the best players of his generation. Another Ryan, Leavy etc. so 8 is tied up

    Okeke's very good and highly rated in Shannon. Probably will get academy as well. a very good carrier. Like alot of 8's his game is based on carrying. There's not many 8's who can do it all. Kendellan in fact seems one of those guys. Jackler, tackler, offloader, carrier.

    its weird the way people bring this up about Okeke. he doesn't work hard enough is one of the tropes i usually see on here.

    the harsh truth of it is any lad getting through to Munster A at 19 is far more impressive than the Connacht equivalent. THe MUnster lads have a higher ceiling to reach. Byrne looks relatively average. Soroka again is a clear generational talent.

    I'd hope to see him get a run out at some stage. Only in IReland can we sort of be in denial about the athletic ability some of the lads have brought. Illo was the same. People somehow shocked at his raw strength. Its just weird its taken Irish rugby so long to catch up even compared to other Irish sports.


  • #483
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    OneLungDavy wrote: »
    Yeah he didn't come on against Scotland? I was surprised by that.

    He’s carrying a knock apparently, that’s why they weren’t putting him on unless they absolutely needed him. Supposedly he’ll be available at some point during the week.


  • #484
    OneLungDavy
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »
    Why? He is very raw as a rugby player.. all the other backrows who have played ahead of him are higher rated than him.
    The bonus point was in the bag so I thought they'd at least give him a few minutes. As UAE alluded to, he may have been carrying a knock.


  • #485
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    starkid wrote: »
    no he's not. what a lazy statement. i was sort of waiting for it.

    did you get a list of all the "rated" lads. seeing there's what only 4 Munster lads in the squad, if he's rated lowly Munster are in trouble. He;s highly rated, played all the way through and played Munster A.

    Clearly Kendellan's one of the best players of his generation. Another Ryan, Leavy etc. so 8 is tied up

    Okeke's very good and highly rated in Shannon. Probably will get academy as well. a very good carrier. Like alot of 8's his game is based on carrying. There's not many 8's who can do it all. Kendellan in fact seems one of those guys. Jackler, tackler, offloader, carrier.

    its weird the way people bring this up about Okeke. he doesn't work hard enough is one of the tropes i usually see on here.

    the harsh truth of it is any lad getting through to Munster A at 19 is far more impressive than the Connacht equivalent. THe MUnster lads have a higher ceiling to reach. Byrne looks relatively average. Soroka again is a clear generational talent.

    I'd hope to see him get a run out at some stage. Only in IReland can we sort of be in denial about the athletic ability some of the lads have brought. Illo was the same. People somehow shocked at his raw strength. Its just weird its taken Irish rugby so long to catch up even compared to other Irish sports.

    Who said he wasn't athletic?

    He is very raw in certain aspects of being a pro level rugby player, carrying the ball is not one of them.

    If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make it and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to doing two.

    It's very odd that the coaches are selecting Byrne ahead of Okeke if Byrne is so average.

    He is a talented player but has a lot to improve to make is as a professional.


  • #486
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »
    Who said he wasn't athletic?

    He is very raw in certain aspects of being a pro level rugby player, carrying the ball is not one of them.

    If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make it and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to doing two.

    It's very odd that the coaches are selecting Byrne ahead of Okeke if Byrne is so average.

    He is a talented player but has a lot to improve to make is as a professional.

    he's not raw though. saying he is means nothing. all of the players are raw in that same sense. budding pro players some not going to make it.

    He's a fearless carrier and in a country that doesn't produce carriers at a huge rate, whats the issue. Calling him raw is just lazy. i've seen that before on here.

    BYrne is fairly average imo. Its harder to get into Munster A than it is Conancht Eagles. Personally i'm unsure as why so many COnnacht lads are getting a look in these days. A bit like the youth players is it a sort of redressing of balances. I mean its not a bad thing, and i'd be worried if i was a Munster fan tbh. but Munster have arguably better coaches, better setup so you'd imagine that LEinster, Musnter and Ulster players should be dominating the squads. The only stand out talent imo looks like Jennings.


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  • #487
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    starkid wrote: »
    he's not raw though. saying he is means nothing. all of the players are raw in that same sense. budding pro players some not going to make it.

    He's a fearless carrier and in a country that doesn't produce carriers at a huge rate, whats the issue. Calling him raw is just lazy. i've seen that before on here.

    BYrne is fairly average imo. Its harder to get into Munster A than it is Conancht Eagles. Personally i'm unsure as why so many COnnacht lads are getting a look in these days. A bit like the youth players is it a sort of redressing of balances. i'd be worried if i was a Munster fan tbh. but they have better coaches, better setup so you'd imagine that LEinster, Musnter and Ulster players should be dominating the squads. The only stand out talent imo looks like Jennings.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #488
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »
    :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    don't worry i had the exact same reaction when you called Okeke "raw".


  • #489
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    starkid wrote: »
    don't worry i had the exact same reaction when you called Okeke "raw".

    you failed to address these facts:

    If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make the squad and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to do two seasons in the sub academy.

    when/if he gets on the field for ireland we shall see how he goes..


  • #490
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »
    you failed to address these facts:

    If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make the squad and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to do two seasons in the sub academy.

    when/if he gets on the field for ireland we shall see how he goes..

    i don't put any stock into any of that having seen so many lads passed over and so many guys not up to it selected instead.

    Illo is another example of not being selected. And he was excellent last week as any person up in Wesley RFc could have told you. We have really strange mentality at times with selection and the way we get players into the system. That was my main point with the youths its great to see. But like how many good players from schools are being passed over? all to fall into the same abyss of perception. i mean in your words, its 20s or bust basically. personally having played with players like Dunlop, Lewis, Norton, Hugh Hogan, Grissing, Nash, Oliver and a few others people wouldn't know about or have forgotten i don't buy into it. we're way too small for this mentality. frankly i always find some guys getting the deals aren't good enough. others there's no disputes.


  • #491
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    starkid wrote: »
    he's not raw though. saying he is means nothing. all of the players are raw in that same sense. budding pro players some not going to make it.

    He's a fearless carrier and in a country that doesn't produce carriers at a huge rate, whats the issue. Calling him raw is just lazy. i've seen that before on here.

    BYrne is fairly average imo. Its harder to get into Munster A than it is Conancht Eagles. Personally i'm unsure as why so many COnnacht lads are getting a look in these days. A bit like the youth players is it a sort of redressing of balances. I mean its not a bad thing, and i'd be worried if i was a Munster fan tbh. but Munster have arguably better coaches, better setup so you'd imagine that LEinster, Musnter and Ulster players should be dominating the squads. The only stand out talent imo looks like Jennings.

    Jesus you talk some nonsense. McCormack, Forde and Jennings all had excellent games last week. Eric Elwood is head of the Connacht Academy, he has more experience than any other coach in any other academy in the country before him. Nigel Carolan was head of the academy before, widely regarded as one of the best young coaches in the country.


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  • #492
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    Jesus you talk some nonsense. McCormack, Forde and Jennings all had excellent games last week. Eric Elwood is head of the Connacht Academy, he has more experience than any other coach in any other academy in the country before him. Nigel Carolan was head of the academy before, widely regarded as one of the best young coaches in the country.

    its just as nonsensical to randomly say Okeke is raw, when nothing points to that fact. but thanks for the input.

    I'm just surprised COnnacht and youths rugby has so much representation. its not a bad thing. However, part of me wonders is it a true reflection of the quality coming through. personally i don't think it is.

    They all look like excellent players.


  • #493
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    starkid wrote: »
    its just as nonsensical to randomly say Okeke is raw, when nothing points to that fact. but thanks for the input.

    I'm just surprised COnnacht and youths rugby has so much representation. its not a bad thing. However, part of me wonders is it a true reflection of the quality coming through.

    They all look like excellent players.

    I don't know anything about Okeke but it's not a great rebuttal to say well someone else said something nonsensical. Connacht have more representation than normal because they have a strong age group, reflected in their winning the u-18s club interpros two years ago when they beat the other three provinces.

    Coaches are being judged here too, being successful will obviously enhance their career opportunities. Obviously they won't get every decision correct and they may overlook/misjudge someone but they have put far more time into it and have far more knowledge than anyone on here.


  • #494
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    starkid wrote: »
    its just as nonsensical to randomly say Okeke is raw, when nothing points to that fact. but thanks for the input.

    I'm just surprised COnnacht and youths rugby has so much representation. its not a bad thing. However, part of me wonders is it a true reflection of the quality coming through. personally i don't think it is.

    They all look like excellent players.

    it's not random, it's an opinion. Okeke is raw in certain areas and we will see that on the field when/if he plays.

    and of course if he doesn't play much it's because the coaches are biased or clueless.


  • #495
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    all the connacht players in this squad would walk into the munster academy.


  • #496
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »
    all the connacht players in this squad would walk into the munster academy.

    A debatable point, mind I may be treating this with slightly too much thought.

    Jennings depends on his long term position - if he's a centre then you'd have to concede that he'd be in given the lack of centres coming through Munster - but if he's a wing there's no chance given the number of back three players already contracted. Not really logistically feasible.

    Same with Forde, if he's a twelve then possibly. If he's a ten, then it's a waste of time with Healy, Crowley, Flannery all ahead of him.

    Murray would have Eoin O'Connor and Pa Kelly to compete with, along with the recently promoted Tom Aherne.

    McCormick is in direct competition with Hodnett as a pure 7. Byrne with Kendellan.

    And this must be the greatest hooker class that's ever graced Irish rugby if the fourth choice hooker would "walk" into the Munster provincial academy.

    Not to say none of these lads would usurp their counterparts, but saying all of them would walk into a pro-contract is silly talk. This is without delving into whoever the next big sub-academy and schools players are - for all I know there could be a 6'8 118kg monster second row out of Munchin's who's about to take the scene by storm, or a 6'3 DDA-style centre from West Cork.

    As a side note, I've seen it mentioned that they won the U18 interpros on their age, how did that same side do at U19?
    ________________________________________

    On Okeke, he had plenty of work-ons when he was last in the public eye, and comments calling him "raw" were totally justified. However, given the large gap with the lack of rugby, maybe he's become a more complete player since we've last seen him. Time and performances will tell.


  • #497
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Wales vs Ireland live on S4C and 6 nations U20 Youtube channel.


  • #498
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Looking at the odds (not sure how much they mean at u20 level) Ireland seem to be priced as pretty strong favorites for this game.


  • #499
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,118 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Several changes! Murray still injured? I suppose rotation is important with a 6 day turnaround. Hopefully, the lads put it on the Welch!


  • #500
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 16,978 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Thought the scrum looked very strong against Scotland. Is he just giving everyone a game, or is Lasisi injured?


  • #501
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    theVersatile wrote: »
    A debatable point, mind I may be treating this with slightly too much thought.

    Jennings depends on his long term position - if he's a centre then you'd have to concede that he'd be in given the lack of centres coming through Munster - but if he's a wing there's no chance given the number of back three players already contracted. Not really logistically feasible.

    Same with Forde, if he's a twelve then possibly. If he's a ten, then it's a waste of time with Healy, Crowley, Flannery all ahead of him.

    Murray would have Eoin O'Connor and Pa Kelly to compete with, along with the recently promoted Tom Aherne.

    McCormick is in direct competition with Hodnett as a pure 7. Byrne with Kendellan.

    And this must be the greatest hooker class that's ever graced Irish rugby if the fourth choice hooker would "walk" into the Munster provincial academy.

    Not to say none of these lads would usurp their counterparts, but saying all of them would walk into a pro-contract is silly talk. This is without delving into whoever the next big sub-academy and schools players are - for all I know there could be a 6'8 118kg monster second row out of Munchin's who's about to take the scene by storm, or a 6'3 DDA-style centre from West Cork.

    As a side note, I've seen it mentioned that they won the U18 interpros on their age, how did that same side do at U19?
    ________________________________________

    On Okeke, he had plenty of work-ons when he was last in the public eye, and comments calling him "raw" were totally justified. However, given the large gap with the lack of rugby, maybe he's become a more complete player since we've last seen him. Time and performances will tell.


    Forde as a 12 gets into the munster academy quite easily. Same goes for Jennings as a 13/wing.

    Eoin O'Connor hasn't played rugby in 18 months and Pa Kelly is not that highly rated, Darragh Murray would immediately be the best lock propect in the Munster academy.

    Munster are actively looking for backrows to join their academy, with Jack Kelleher and Okeke probably getting into the academy.. i'd take McCormack and Byrne over those two.

    Munster are desperate for quality young hookers, while de Buitléar isn't a huge prospect he is better than anything munster have available to them at the moment.

    There isn't a 6'8 monster lock or a DDA style centre coming through the munster system unfortunately.

    Connacht came 2nd in the u19 interpros, losing out narrowly to leinster.

    For the record most of them would get into the leinster/ulster academy too.


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  • #502
    Lsdrugbyfan
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Thought the scrum looked very strong against Scotland. Is he just giving everyone a game, or is Lasisi injured?

    picked up a knock, i'd expect him back in for england.


  • #503
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,118 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I was surprised by the under representation of Munster. But, I see a lock has come in from Munster. Anyone know anything about him?
    The Connacht lads played well last week. It's great to see some good talent out west! I hope they all progress to the Connacht team. That lad Byrne looks a good prospect. He's got very good size. Who knows, he may be Connachts #6 for the next 10 years!


  • #504
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    I was surprised by the under representation of Munster. But, I see a lock has come in from Munster. Anyone know anything about him?
    The Connacht lads played well last week. It's great to see some good talent out west! I hope they all progress to the Connacht team. That lad Byrne looks a good prospect. He's got very good size. Who knows, he may be Connachts #6 for the next 10 years!

    He's from Cashel. Good strong carrier.
    I wouldnt make too much from the representation from Munster this year. Its not a concern.
    Unfortunately several wont progress to the pro ranks. Its the same most years that some will drop from pro ranks or at least playing in Ireland within a few years..


  • #505
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Italy the architects of their own downfall i dont know how they've lost that game.


  • #506
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,118 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    That England side is massive. Great looking team.


  • #507
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This on TV?


  • #508
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This on TV?
    RTE 2 and 6 nations website


  • #509
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    This on TV?

    Rté 2


  • #510
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Good score by Forde.
    Hopefully can build on that..


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  • #511
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Ireland looking a class above this Welsh side, the welsh hanging on by slowing the game doen cynically, could end up getting messy if this is there game plan


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