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15-02-2021, 10:46   #1
maestroamado
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language

I have noticed in recent years that our language has become very Americian so i just thought i would bring it here as i prefer if we kept abit of our traditional identity.
I will give the few new recent examples i heard on tele recently i can think of off-hand, others may add more, two recent ones made me cringe, yesterday the rugby match i heard "first receiver" and a few weeks ago i heard on All Ireland final day "rookie" I think i am a person of the world but i do not want to feel like i am at a "ball game" I think tv and movie pretty well established.
Whats the view here?
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15-02-2021, 10:51   #2
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i don't think rookie is an american word?
from a quick google, it seems to have been popularised by rudyard kipling. it's a corruption of 'recruit' possibly.
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15-02-2021, 10:55   #3
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i don't think rookie is an american word?
from a quick google, it seems to have been popularised by rudyard kipling. it's a corruption of 'recruit' possibly.

The word Rookie originally comes from the American Civil War. In the Civil War new recruits were called “reckies”, which was short for recruit. The word eventually evolved into “Rookie”.
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15-02-2021, 11:00   #4
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source? i found no mention of the american civil war in my quick google.
the OED has the first recorded use by rudyard kipling, and the context referred to was the british military.
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15-02-2021, 11:07   #5
maestroamado
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source? i found no mention of the american civil war in my quick google.
the OED has the first recorded use by rudyard kipling, and the context referred to was the british military.
My information is you about 100 years out of date.
That's not the reason i raised this i prefer if we kept abit of our own lingo.

Have a nice day....
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15-02-2021, 11:40   #6
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if you're going to complain about us using supposed american language and then be unable to support your claim that one of the two examples you gave is actually american, i'm not sure if you want a discussion or simply to air your grievances.

regardless of that, what hiberno-english word (or irish, there's a certain irony about us debating our language being supplanted, while we do it as bearla) do you think it has supplanted which you'd prefer we still be using?
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15-02-2021, 13:34   #7
maestroamado
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Why do you decide poster person as complaint, after all that what "forum" supposed to be about.
We cannot change the past but we can chose a direction in the "here and now"
It may be i am wrong as recent events as a recent event has shown we let America do what it pleases here.
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15-02-2021, 14:06   #8
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Languages change, that's just the way it is. Some Americanisms such as Fall for Autumn are actually old English words that evolved over here but remained on the other side of the pond. Accents also stagnated in America, where ours evolved. I read a book by Bill Bryson about twenty years ago which went into this, David Crystal is another one who talks about it and, my favourite book on the English language is The adventure of English by Melvyn Bragg.

The global village is becoming more and more connected, therefore so will our accents and language used, particularly the Lingua Franca as it is most susceptible to outside influences. This though is not just true of English but other languages such as German, which has taken showman and handy from English and given them completely new meanings, French has turned the verbs parking and relooking into nouns.
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15-02-2021, 14:16   #9
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Have you ever done any academic reading about sociolinguistics, OP? Languages are in a constant state of change and evolution.

Slang comes and goes. Dialects shift. Sometimes multiple languages meet and pidgin forms come to the fore, or get a strong enough foundation to become creole.

New concepts require new words, or the innovative use of established words. Some languages have Higher and Lower forms or registers which might be used in more formal or less formal settings.

The kind of English spoken in Ireland in the second half of the 20th century is no more "legitimate" than any other. Yes, people fear change, and some words can seem annoying, but that's just a fact of life. Things change. If one's sense of identity is so wrapped up in one small element of culture, then they probably need to broaden their cultural engagement a little bit.
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15-02-2021, 14:57   #10
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As someone who actually has done Sociolinguistics at that level, I have some agreement with the OP. While yes languages change and cross-pollinated words / phrases between differing languages or dialets of the same languges there is also the loss of lingustic heritage as local phrases and accents are marginalised. This leads to a loss of linguatic diversity which also has been raised as an issue at academic studies as local forms/usages are overtaken.
For instance there was a seminal paper about the dialect usage Martha's Vineyard and the consious effort by local long term residents to preserve their dialect pronuncation and use, being used as a marker of identity.
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15-02-2021, 19:01   #11
maestroamado
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Originally Posted by Insect Overlord View Post
Have you ever done any academic reading about sociolinguistics, OP? Languages are in a constant state of change and evolution.

Slang comes and goes. Dialects shift. Sometimes multiple languages meet and pidgin forms come to the fore, or get a strong enough foundation to become creole.

New concepts require new words, or the innovative use of established words. Some languages have Higher and Lower forms or registers which might be used in more formal or less formal settings.

The kind of English spoken in Ireland in the second half of the 20th century is no more "legitimate" than any other. Yes, people fear change, and some words can seem annoying, but that's just a fact of life. Things change. If one's sense of identity is so wrapped up in one small element of culture, then they probably need to broaden their cultural engagement a little bit.
Why are you afraid of change? i certainly am not.
I have noticed huge language changes and i think most have come through education.
I think the changes i am referring to have come mostly through the good influence Americian Companies here.
We speak English whether correct or not i do not care, i did not ever hear the two words i mention on British but i may have be wrong...

Last edited by maestroamado; 15-02-2021 at 19:02. Reason: error
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15-02-2021, 19:46   #12
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Originally Posted by maestroamado View Post
Why are you afraid of change? i certainly am not.
I have noticed huge language changes and i think most have come through education.
I think the changes i am referring to have come mostly through the good influence Americian Companies here.
We speak English whether correct or not i do not care, i did not ever hear the two words i mention on British but i may have be wrong...

Well I do care and I find it hard to see why you argue on foreign word importations and yet you can express yourself ungrammatically and with poor use of capitalisation.
I’ll step up to the plate (oops!) and admit I share the views of Manach to a certain extent. There is quite a difference between language change (shift in meaning or a corruption of the original word) and language change by importation of foreign words/phrases. After all, what is English but a mixture of several imported languages. It has been happening for centuries and is a reason why the French (Louis XIII, 1635) created the Academie Francaise to safeguard the language. Despite that, the French love their ‘parking’, ‘pressing’, ‘mailing’, ‘un Scotch’, etc., and are slow to dismiss them – the Academie fought and lost a long battle to have the import word ‘email’ banned and ‘couriel’ used in its stead. Anyway, most have French/Latin roots, Parking-> parc ->parricus.

Meaning change – e.g. ‘Silly’ in the 1400’s meant ‘happy’ or ‘blessed’ – as in ‘Silly art thou, Holy Virgin Mary’. That meaning has changed completely, as has more recently the meaning of the word ‘gay’.

Corruption change - ‘Piggyback’ has nothing to do with pigs but is a corruption of ‘pickaback’.

Canadian French is slower to evolve both in vocabulary and pronunciation – a car is often a ‘carosse’ (carriage} but when they have a puncture they say ‘J’ai un flat’ which is quicker/easier than ‘J’ai eu une crevaison de pneu’. It also is why Canadian French films are subtitled in French for French audiences.
As for your comment on 'keeping a bit of our identity', languages evolve, which is why I'm sure there are words as Gaelge for 'mainframe' and 'cloud computing'.
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15-02-2021, 19:53   #13
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Originally Posted by Captain Havoc View Post
Languages change, that's just the way it is. Some Americanisms such as Fall for Autumn are actually old English words that evolved over here but remained on the other side of the pond. Accents also stagnated in America, where ours evolved. I read a book by Bill Bryson about twenty years ago which went into this, David Crystal is another one who talks about it and, my favourite book on the English language is The adventure of English by Melvyn Bragg.

The global village is becoming more and more connected, therefore so will our accents and language used, particularly the Lingua Franca as it is most susceptible to outside influences. This though is not just true of English but other languages such as German, which has taken showman and handy from English and given them completely new meanings, French has turned the verbs parking and relooking into nouns.
This intrigues me.

A quick Google is showing nowt. What does it mean?
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15-02-2021, 20:34   #14
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As for your comment on 'keeping a bit of our identity', languages evolve, which is why I'm sure there are words as Gaelge for 'mainframe' and 'cloud computing'.
i remember being at a houseparty once where a few people were laughing that the irish for 'chimpanzee' is essentially the same word, but spelt in accordance with how that word would be spelt as gaeilge.
obviously unaware that the word originally came from a language local to where they come from - in many instances, it'd be ludicrous to make up a new word simply for the sake of it, you take the word as it is and import it from another language.

to be fair, i've picked a very straightforward example there.
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15-02-2021, 20:34   #15
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This intrigues me.

A quick Google is showing nowt. What does it mean?
I was thinking of showmaster, sorry.
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