[Birdnuts]

Originally Posted by Corsendonk

Who are these big vested interests in big agr business? I never actually hear any names mentioned.

Monsanto, Bayer, Novartis to name but a few etc.

[Birdnuts]

Originally Posted by Corsendonk

Italy, Spain and Greece sit on top of the organic production table because they have good sunny climates needed to produce crops all year round.

.

Actually Austria has the highest % of land under organic production - the likes of organic beef, poultry, lamb could all be produced here, adding major value to Irish food exports

[ei.sdraob]

Genetically modified crops are the key to human survival, says UK's chief scientist

Moves to block cultivation of genetically modified crops in the developing world can no longer be tolerated on ethical or moral grounds, the government's chief scientist, Sir John Beddington, has warned. He said the world faced "a perfect storm" of issues that could lead to widespread food shortages and public unrest over the next few decades. His warning comes in the wake of food riots in north Africa and rising global concern about mounting food prices.

"A number of very important factors are about to change our world," said Beddington, an expert in population biology. "Its population is rising by six million every month and will reach a total of around 9,000 million by 2050. At the same time, it is estimated that by 2030 more than 60% of the population will be living in cities and will no longer be involved in growing crops or raising domestic animals. And on top of that the world's population is getting more prosperous and able to pay for more food."

Beddington said these factors indicated that the world was going to need 40% more food, 30% more water and 50% more energy by the middle of the century – at a time when climate change was starting to have serious environmental impacts on the planet, flooding coastal plains, spreading deserts and raising temperatures. "We could cut down tropical rain forests and plant crops on the savannahs to grow more food, but that would leave us even more vulnerable to the impact of global warming and climate change. We needed these regions to help absorb carbon dioxide emissions, after all."

Beddington said humanity had to face the fact that every means to improve food production should now be employed, including widespread use of new biotechnological techniques in farming. He stressed that no harm should be inflicted on humans or the environment. His remarks were made in advance of publication tomorrow of a major report, "The Future of Food and Farming".

His office's report is a specific attempt to highlight moves that could halt devastation of the planet. Crucially, the report will be presented tomorrow not just to the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), but also to the Department for International Development, which directs UK foreign aid. Beddington said he would present details of his office's report in Washington next month. He also hoped it would be debated at other events, including the G8 and G20 summits.

He emphasised the role of modern biotechnological techniques, including GM crops, in the future of global food production. "There will be no silver bullet, but it is very hard to see how it would be remotely sensible to justify not using new technologies such as GM. Just look at the problems that the world faces: water shortages and salination of existing water supplies, for example. GM crops should be able to deal with that."

Cutting CO2/Methane will hit farmers In ireland of all kinds, or worse force them to buy tax credits with money they dont have

While trying to make Ireland "GM Free" would cut us out of a large market where "smart and green" jobs can be created

I hate this "Luddite" streak in the environmentalist movement, its selfish, short-sighted and will result in misery, already several african countries blocked food AID which was from GM crops with the result of their people starving thats ****ing insane

[Macha]

ei.sdraob, this is not a thread about GM foods in Africa, it is a thread about organic production in Ireland. Try to keep it on topic.

And this is the last time you will be asked to stop making sweeping derogative statements about environmentalists. It's rude, agressive and entirely unnecessary.

[Birdnuts]

Originally Posted by ei.sdraob

Genetically modified crops are the key to human survival, says UK's chief scientist





Cutting CO2/Methane will hit farmers In ireland of all kinds, or worse force them to buy tax credits with money they dont have

While trying to make Ireland "GM Free" would cut us out of a large market where "smart and green" jobs can be created

I hate this "Luddite" streak in the environmentalist movement, its selfish, short-sighted and will result in misery, already several african countries blocked food AID which was from GM crops with the result of their people starving thats ****ing insane

I suggest you do some research on why there are food shortages in Africa before you go promoting the agenda of the likes of Monsanto - for a good example start with the Situation in Zimbabwe.

[ei.sdraob]

Originally Posted by Macha

And this is the last time you will be asked to stop making sweeping derogative statements about environmentalists. It's rude, agressive and entirely unnecessary.

Fair enough let me explain where I am coming from before you slam me.
I was expressing my anger at the environment/green movement being responsible for turning away food aid which resulted in deaths. Not everyone might be aware of the ugly reality of being "green".
People need to know that their "green" ideology sometimes results in misery. And not just when it comes to GM foods .

Originally Posted by Birdnuts

I suggest you do some research on why there are food shortages in Africa before you go promoting the agenda of the likes of Monsanto - for a good example start with the Situation in Zimbabwe.

I am not promoting Monsanto's agenda for gods sake. Turning away food aid because it comes from GM food is perverted and dangerous, its good enough for americans to eat but not good enough for starving people being given free aid?

As 1.75 million Zambian people face starvation, the country's officials have turned away a shipment of maize sent as part of an international emergency relief effort, because the maize is genetically modified.

The drought stricken country in southern Africa has suffered severe food shortages as crops failed. Rural populations are meanwhile finding it more difficult to recover from hunger due to a 20% infection rate from HIV/AIDs. Zambia's President Levy Mwanawasa declared a national emergency with regard to the food shortages in May.

Zambia fears however that importing GM maize could potentially damage its ability to export agricultural products to markets with strict GM restrictions. Many critics also suggest that the US is using situations such as this to increase global tolerance towards GM foods.

Newstead Zimba, Zambia's minister of information, is quoted in the Financial Times as explaining: "We have taken into consideration the scientific advice about the long-term effects of the GM foods and all related grains and we are rejecting it."

The move by Zambia echoes those made recently by Zimbabwe and Mozambique, where officials have also rejected GM maize sent from the US.

http://www.just-food.com/news/author...d_id71090.aspx


It is sickening that politicians could make a decision that would let people starve based on advice of the anti-GM lobby

[Macha]

Originally Posted by ei.sdraob

I was expressing my anger at the environment/green movement being responsible for turning away food aid which resulted in deaths. Not everyone might be aware of the ugly reality of being "green".
People need to know that their "green" ideology sometimes results in misery. And not just when it comes to GM foods .

To echo a mod note of the Irish Economy, if you've got a gripe, get a blog. This forum is for measured discussion not pushing your personal agenda. Final warning.

Everyone please get back on topic on farming, organic or otherwise, in Ireland.

[Corsendonk]

Originally Posted by Macha

The lack of presence of these companies in Ireland is a direct result of the Irish government's policy of no GMO crops.

As it stands, these companies' products can be bought in any gardening store, especially the (in)famous Round Up.

But what they're after isn't specifically the Irish market but the European market and Wikileaks gave a rare insight into their best ally: the US government:


http://www.euractiv.com/en/global-eu...ks-news-500960

Emmm you know I am talking about commercial growers and farmers here, your first statement is like saying Aer Lingus IT dept buy their PCs in PC World. I think if you check the Bord Bia grower figures, the cost of licensing in Ireland and the cost of the product you will quickly work out its market economics and not some false boast from the Greens about GM crops.

Plant Protection Products

The main provisions of the legislation (S.I No. 320 of 1981 as amended, S.I. No. 83 of 2003 and S.I. No. 624 of 2001), are as follows: -

Before a plant protection product (PPP) can be placed on the market or used, it must conform to rigid controls specified in accordance with the legislation. That legislation is designed to ensure that no harmful effects arise for human and animal health and that there is no unacceptable impact on the environment.

An extensive dossier of information and data must be generated for each product to demonstrate compliance with the very high level of protection enshrined in the legislation.

Plant protection products, on the market prior to the introduction of the current regulatory system, are gradually being reviewed to ensure compliance with current standards.

Only PPPs which can be used safely are authorised for marketing and use. The conditions of authorisation are selected to minimise risks for consumers, workers and the environment. The use of a PPP in a manner other than specified on its approved label is illegal. The labelling provisions that must be complied with by farmers, growers and other users include: -

• hazard symbols, risk warnings and safety recommendations
• personal protective equipment which must be worn during handling and application
• the maximum individual dose
• the maximum number of applications and the maximum total dose
• timing of applications and spray interval between applications
• pre-harvest interval following last application
• crops on which the PPP may be used
• harmful organisms for which the PPP may be used
• other relevant conditions

Source: http://www.pcs.agriculture.gov.ie/Default.htm
Fees in 2003 for registration of Pesticide in Ireland

Application and Annual Fees payable in accordance with the European Communities (Authorization, Placing on the Market, Use and Control of Plant Protection Products) Regulations 2003 (S.I. No 83 of 2003)

Annual Fees
Annual Fee – minimum €90.00
Annual Fee – reduced €150.00
Annual Fee – full * €275.00
Annual Fee - late * €400.00
Annual Fee - reduction threshold (professional use)1 €20,000.00
Annual Fee - reduction threshold (amateur use)1 €6,500.00

1 Reduced fees may apply to a plant protection product already on the market for a period of a year or more prior to the calendar year for which the annual fee is payable. The fee may be reduced on the basis of an auditor's certificate showing that wholesale sales of the plant protection product during the previous calendar year did not exceed the thresholds shown. In all cases, the minimum fee payable shall be €90.

Application Fees
Reduction threshold for existing product (specialised use)2 €6,500.00
Reduction threshold existing product (specialised use)2 €13,000.00
Reduction threshold existing product (specialised use)2 €26,000.00
Reduction threshold new product (specialised use)2 €13,000.00
Reduction threshold new product (specialised use)2 €26,000.00
Reduction threshold new product (specialised use)2 €52,000.00
Trivial Amendment Fee €275.00
Parallel Import Approval Fee - sale and use €275.00
Parallel Import Approval Fee - use only €100.00
Extension in Field of Use Fee €275.00
Notification Fee (adjuvants & macro-organisms) * €275.00
Fee for Certification of Inclusion on Register €275.00
Authorization for Trials Purposes Fee €275.00
Renewal of Authorization for Trials Purposes Fee €60.00
Variation of Authorization for Trials Purposes Fee €60.00
Trials Permit Fee €1,300.00
Trials Permit Renewal Fee €275.00
Variation of Trials Permit Fee €275.00
Fee for Modification of an Authorization - minor €750.00
Fee for Modification of an Authorization - major €2,000.00
Permission to Market Fee * €1,300.00
Authorization Fee - (mutual recognition of an Annex III A dossier) * €1,625.00
Authorization Fee - (mutual recognition of an Annex III B dossier) * €200.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex III A dossier) * €2,000.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex III B dossier) * €250.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex II A dossier) €5,700.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex II B dossier) €250.00

2 Reduced fees may apply to a plant protection product that is placed on the market exclusively for a specialised use or specialised uses.

Existing products are defined as those already on the market for a period of three or more years prior to the calendar year in which the fee is payable. The wholesale sales of such a product during each of the three calendar years immediately prior to the year in which the fee or fees are payable must not have exceeded the thresholds given. Any claims for a fee reduction must be supported by an auditor's certificate. (continued on next page)
2 (continued) New products are defined as those on the market for a period of less than three years prior to the calendar year in which the fee is payable. Any claim for a fee reduction must be supported by a market survey showing that the potential annual wholesale sales of the plant protection product are unlikely to exceed the thresholds given. In cases where the plant protection product has been on the market for one or two years immediately prior to the calendar year in which the fee is payable, any application made for a fee reduction must be supported by an auditor's certificate relating to the wholesale sales of the plant protection product during each such year.

Where reduced fees are applicable, the percentage of the full fee payable shall be 10%, 25% or 50% in the case of the lower, middle and upper thresholds respectively for both existing and new products.

Fees for work on behalf of EFSA & the European Commission
Dossier receipt, registry and completeness check €2,000.00
Co-ordination of examination of dossier and editing of monograph €13,300.00
Examination of physical and chemical properties and analytical methods €13,300.00
Examination of residues profile €26,600.00
Examination of fate and behaviour in the environment €26,600.00
Examination of ecotoxicological profile €26,600.00
Examination of toxicological profile €33,300.00
Peer review and 15 MS evaluation process €63,300.00
Total Fee for Annex I inclusion of an active substance (single dossier) €205,000.00
Co-rapporteur Fee €35,000.00

* In the case of all fees followed by the symbol *, some €25 will be transferred to the Poisons Information Centre to cover the cost of maintaining the Poisons database

If you browse the PCS website you will see the limited range of products available to growers of minor crops.

Horticulture Figures 2007
http://www.bordbia.ie/industryinfo/h...uralcrops.aspx

[Corsendonk]

Update of Sales figures from Europe largest Organic Market



ISN

Organic food sales in Germany, the largest European market for the sector, were "stagnant" in 2009, according to the latest industry data. Figures from Germany's organic food federation, the BÖLW, said there had been particular losses in food retailing and discount stores.

Estimated turnover in the sector amounted to around EUR5.85bn (US$8.52bn), which BÖLW said was "roughly the same" or even "slightly less" than last year.
"The reason is price declines and range reductions in discount stores," said Hans-Christoph Behr, director of agricultural information company AMI.

"This has led to a smaller range of goods in the affected stores. Targeted price reductions by the discount stores did not lead to the desired effect of a higher sales volumes."

Despite these losses, the organic sector outperformed the wider food market in Germany, the trade organisation said today (13 January).

[Jayo2011]

Originally Posted by Corsendonk

Climate is essential too.

most imported food can be grown in an Irish climate.

There is little difference in the production costs. Most Irish farmers are just greedy and reckless. They cant be bothered with crop rotation, they much prefer to mass produce everything, spray it down with every possible chemical to control pests and maximise production. Meanwhile, this is all seeping into our groundwater. The problems associated with artificial fertilizers and pesticides are only beginning to show their effects now. Many effects may not become apparent for decades to come. In England, studies have shown that fish are changing sex in the Thames river. It is not clear whether this is directly associated with the use of the pill or the hormones added in fertilizer that seeps into the rivers.


In 2006 the European Commission stated: ‘Long-term exposure to pesticides can lead to serious disturbances to the immune system, sexual disorders, cancers, sterility, birth defects, damage to the nervous system and genetic damage.’

Here is another interesting link:
http://www.soilassociation.org/Whyor...9/Default.aspx

any argument that says that there isn't a big enough market for organic food is nonsense. We currently import over 90% (I think it is closer to 96%) of our organic food.

[Corsendonk]

Originally Posted by Jayo2011

most imported food can be grown in an Irish climate.

True, but the question is it sustainable? Energy costs, labour etc

There is little difference in the production costs. Most Irish farmers are just greedy and reckless.

You haven't much of a clue on production costs, climate and how much retailers mark up before reaching the consumer?

They cant be bothered with crop rotation, they much prefer to mass produce everything, spray it down with every possible chemical to control pests and maximise production.

Chemicals cost money, a good farmer wishes to have as little inputs as possible, Farmers are businesses after all. True crop rotation calls for mixed farms. Consumers demand 356 days of the year supply so retailers encourage farmers to specialise in one or two crops.

In 2006 the European Commission stated: ‘Long-term exposure to pesticides can lead to serious disturbances to the immune system, sexual disorders, cancers, sterility, birth defects, damage to the nervous system and genetic damage

.’

In what context was this? Where they talking about consumers or farmers who applied pesticides?

any argument that says that there isn't a big enough market for organic food is nonsense. We currently import over 90% (I think it is closer to 96%) of our organic food.

Have you a breakdown of what organic products we import? Bananas? Avocados? French Organic Cheeses? Org new season potatoes? Biscuits?

[Jonathan Goulding]

The climate in Ireland is excellent for growing organic produce.

[thewolfisloose]

Organic in the US soon became another rule to dance around and moved into commercial production quite quickly. Here, red tape buckled the grassroots push that would have been required as the prerequisite. If you're running a homestead here in Ireland then the key is diversity in production.

I think it would make sense to get Irish farmer's behind regenerative beef and dairy systems. In theory it would have the least amount of labour, education and investment input requirements. Checks a lot of boxes for our EU green obligations, particularly reduction in fertilizer usages (-20% by 2030).

Any farmers able to comment on beef / dairy markets atm?