The bleak state of Irish archaeology, and the way forward?

slowburner · 30-08-2016 10:12am #1

A new strategic document has been published by relevant stakeholders on the current state of Irish archaeology, its context, and recommendations for its future.
The draft document is available to download (pdf) here.

slowburner · 09-10-2016 9:38am

Some of the glaring statistics from the Archaeology 2025 report:

National Monuments Service: staff reduced by 25%

OPW: no archaeologists employed

National Museum of Ireland: grant aid cut by 40%, staff reduction of 27%

The Heritage Council: budget cut from €20.4 million (2008) to €6.5 million (2015)

Discovery Programme: budget cut by 50%.

Private sector archaeology: In 2007 the major companies employed 966 staff. In 2014, they employed 75. Most of whom earned less than the average industrial wage, despite holding post-graduate qualifications.

INSTAR (Irish National Strategic Archaeological Research programme): funding cut from €1.7 million to €30K.

Caybar · 09-10-2016 9:43am

Glad i didnt choose the archaeology course in trinners now

robp · 09-10-2016 1:12pm

slowburner wrote: »

Some of the glaring statistics from the Archaeology 2025 report:

National Monuments Service: staff reduced by 25%

OPW: no archaeologists employed

National Museum of Ireland: grant aid cut by 40%, staff reduction of 27%

The Heritage Council: budget cut from 20.4 million (2008) to 6.5 million (2015)

Discovery Programme: budget cut by 50%.

Private sector archaeology: In 2007 the major companies employed 966 staff. In 2014, they employed 75. Most of whom earned less than the average industrial wage, despite holding post-graduate qualifications.

INSTAR (Irish National Strategic Archaeological Research programme): funding cut from 1.7 million to 30K.

I find it shocking to see the numbers laid out like this. I really though at least that the contract archaeology firms would have more than 75 staff. Are so few roads being built, or are they differences in the scale of archaeology mitigation in construction ?

slowburner · 10-10-2016 5:21am

robp wrote: »

I find it shocking to see the numbers laid out like this. I really though at least that the contract archaeology firms would have more than 75 staff. Are so few roads being built, or are they differences in the scale of archaeology mitigation in construction ?

The figures for commercial archaeology may have changed a little since 2014.

Arsemageddon · 10-10-2016 8:44pm

robp wrote: »

I find it shocking to see the numbers laid out like this. I really though at least that the contract archaeology firms would have more than 75 staff. Are so few roads being built, or are they differences in the scale of archaeology mitigation in construction ?

A lot of the large and medium sized archaeological consultancies ceased operating or went out of business during the recession. Many of them were forced out of business because they weren't paid for work they had completed (including seriously delayed payment from government bodies). There are only three/four large consultancies still operating, quite a few new small consultancies have been established in the last few years, so the number 75 is definitely way too low. The 2007 figure of 950ish people working in commercial archaeology was vastly inflated by the number of people working on road schemes, this number of jobs was never going to be sustainable.

There have been hardly any road projects of significant size undertaken in the Republic since the first half of 2011 until late last year/this year. Some road projects have commenced this year, so there is some work available on those schemes. However, because so many people have left the profession it is now quite difficult to get experienced staff.

There has been no significant change in the archaeological conditions attached to planning applications. Commercial archaeology is part of the construction industry, so it took a huge hit along with the rest of that industry.

eeguy · 10-10-2016 8:46pm

I remember handing a CV into an archaeology company in 2009.
They said thank you, we'll be in touch.

A week later they were closed.

Del.Monte · 10-10-2016 8:53pm

slowburner wrote: »

Some of the glaring statistics from the Archaeology 2025 report:

National Monuments Service: staff reduced by 25%

OPW: no archaeologists employed

National Museum of Ireland: grant aid cut by 40%, staff reduction of 27%

The Heritage Council: budget cut from €20.4 million (2008) to €6.5 million (2015)

Discovery Programme: budget cut by 50%.

Private sector archaeology: In 2007 the major companies employed 966 staff. In 2014, they employed 75. Most of whom earned less than the average industrial wage, despite holding post-graduate qualifications.

INSTAR (Irish National Strategic Archaeological Research programme): funding cut from €1.7 million to €30K.

The reduction in grant aid to the National Monuments Service and the National Museum are particularly disgusting given the constant self congratulation by Government about the growth in tourist numbers.

robp · 11-10-2016 9:13pm

Arsemageddon wrote: »

robp wrote: »

I find it shocking to see the numbers laid out like this. I really though at least that the contract archaeology firms would have more than 75 staff. Are so few roads being built, or are they differences in the scale of archaeology mitigation in construction ?

There has been no significant change in the archaeological conditions attached to planning applications. Commercial archaeology is part of the construction industry, so it took a huge hit along with the rest of that industry.

There hasn't been legislative changes, but perhaps the tenders are underestimating the cost of excavations?

mocmo · 11-10-2016 9:20pm

The current estimate of number of people working in commercial sector archaeology is c. 150, about 50% of which are employed on a number of small (c. 30 staff) road schemes in the west.

There is definitely a pick up in work but it's never going back to boom levels. As Arsemageddon rightly points out, the 2007 figure of 950 was only due to large road schemes, and was completely unsustainable in the country this small. Even if we see significant economic recovery, we're never going to have employment levels like that again, and as someone who was there for it all, it was still a very poor industry to work in with low rates of pay (compared with professional peers) and little or no job security and/or benefits.

I don't know a single commercial sector archaeologist who would encourage their children into it. The work can be fascinating, the people are brilliant but the returns are awful and the older you get the more glaringly obvious that becomes. I am now noticing an exodus of practitioners in their 30's and 40's who cannot see a way to make a living, buy a home, and save something for old age. This problem is of course not unique to archaeology, but it is very prevalent in the industry, so even with a pick up in work, brain drain is still a problem.

Government investment in heritage is utterly appalling, especially sickening when as Slowburner states, they trot out statements on the value of heritage to the tourist economy. The NMI, NMS and Heritage Council are stretched to their limits. We haven't had a government with an interest in heritage for a very long time, and I don't see anyone in office who has an appetite for it

These articles are a good, if depressing, read.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/tourism-will-suffer-without-real-support-for-heritage-1.954000

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/heritage-needs-more-funding-to-create-jobs-and-a-good-living-environment-1.1893516

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/heritage-council-s-unhappy-birthday-1.2230850

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/heritage-council-funding-slashed-by-90-330467.html

Riamfada · 12-10-2016 1:43pm

It could be argued that the field is simply returning to its pre-boom state. The archaeology community had traditionally been the field of a small number of academics.

mocmo · 12-10-2016 6:07pm

I'd say that's exactly what is happening, although there were a few small consultancies operating pre-boom. In some good news today the Heritage Council got an extra €1 million funding

http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/newsmedia/view-article-from-home/article/heritage-council-welcomes-increased-budget-funding/?cHash=88fb871f2c325259e39f2072f45bf249

Del.Monte · 12-10-2016 6:56pm

mocmo wrote: »

I'd say that's exactly what is happening, although there were a few small consultancies operating pre-boom. In some good news today the Heritage Council got an extra €1 million funding

http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/newsmedia/view-article-from-home/article/heritage-council-welcomes-increased-budget-funding/?cHash=88fb871f2c325259e39f2072f45bf249

I note that Heritage Council press release comes from a PR firm http://www.mkc.ie/ - just the sort of nonsense that the Heritage Council waste money on. Is there seriously nobody in their office that can do a press release? Starrett himself perchance? :rolleyes:

mocmo · 13-10-2016 5:10pm

I'm surprised by that, I would have thought the council managed their own PR...

Aelfric · 23-10-2016 11:51am

I have more than 20 years' commercial experience, am licence eligible in both Irish jurisdictions, and yet I haven't been able to get paid archaeology work in Ireland since 2009. I went off to Australia for 18 months, but that didn't work out either. I'm currently working in a 3rd-level research office, look so many of my contemporaries.

That said, I understand from my many contacts in the industry, that things are starting to pick up again, so make sure your Safe Pass is up to date

slowburner · 23-10-2016 7:52pm

There are signs that demand for archaeologists is beginning to exceed supply in the commercial sector.
As well as the joy of the scintillating Safepass, anyone considering a return to the field should really join Unite the Union. This is the ideal moment to improve our lot imho. There is strength in numbers and strength when we are in demand.
Pay is appalling. Certainty is non-existent. There may not be another chance to improve our lot as the commercial secctor heats up.
The union reps have done sterling work on our behalf, and they have a lot more to do. They need our support.
Sign up with Unite here...
http://unitearch.wixsite.com/unitearchaeology/about_us

Poor Uncle Tom · 22-11-2016 9:30am

slowburner wrote: »

Sign up with Unite here...

I would imagine any new jobs in the field will be spread between, jobs advertised from new or established practices, public sector jobs, setting up in self employment. Any profession out in the workplace needs representation, imo. However they need to walk before they can run. The profession needs to unite (excuse the pun) behind a body that represents their profession like the IAI and not a union.

From practical experience I can tell you if I am advertising a job position and I am interviewing candidates one question I always ask is if they are joined any representative body for the profession as I believe it shows a willingness to progress personal development in the profession at the very least. If a candidate came back and said they weren't joined any representative body for the profession directly but they were a member of a union, I know I would keep looking for my new employee as I would see that candidates focus to be in the wrong direction, again this is just my opinion.

I don't know much about the representative bodies in existence for Archaeologists but for my own profession at least I've learned a few hard truths after coming through the recession. Every profession needs representation, the correct type of representation.

Slowburner, please don't take this post as a dig at you, I really respect your posts, I just feel strongly about this issue.

slowburner · 23-11-2016 6:12am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Slowburner, please don't take this post as a dig at you

Not at all.

robp · 23-11-2016 4:46pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

The profession needs to unite (excuse the pun) behind a body that represents their profession like the IAI and not a union.

Is the profession not united? membership in the IAI is high bar Northern Ireland.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

From practical experience I can tell you if I am advertising a job position and I am interviewing candidates one question I always ask is if they are joined any representative body for the profession as I believe it shows a willingness to progress personal development in the profession at the very least. If a candidate came back and said they weren't joined any representative body for the profession directly but they were a member of a union, I know I would keep looking for my new employee as I would see that candidates focus to be in the wrong direction, again this is just my opinion.

Everyone should join the IAI but membership cost between €40 to €100 and can be hard to pay for some. Unions in archaeology are for as much for upping professional standards and retaining skills as increasing pay.

Poor Uncle Tom · 25-11-2016 8:12pm

robp wrote: »

Is the profession not united? membership in the IAI is high bar Northern Ireland.

Everyone should join the IAI but membership cost between €40 to €100 and can be hard to pay for some. Unions in archaeology are for as much for upping professional standards and retaining skills as increasing pay.

Oh, ok well that's a different story, just giving my 2c, this field is not my profession, I just have a healthy interest in it.

robp · 27-11-2016 6:53pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

robp wrote: »

Is the profession not united? membership in the IAI is high bar Northern Ireland.

Everyone should join the IAI but membership cost between 40 to 100 and can be hard to pay for some. Unions in archaeology are for as much for upping professional standards and retaining skills as increasing pay.

Oh, ok well that's a different story, just giving my 2c, this field is not my profession, I just have a healthy interest in it.

Fair enough. I do think the IAI is great and I do hope the organisation can grow its membership.

Arsemageddon · 27-11-2016 10:24pm

robp wrote: »

Is the profession not united? membership in the IAI is high bar Northern Ireland.

There is a massive difference in pay, conditions and job security between archaeologists working in the private sector and archaeologists working for the state. Then there is rivalry between the various archaeological companies and the general animosity between field staff and companies over pay. At least the habit of some academic archaeologists looking down on everyone else seems to be a thing of the past

In short, I don't think it is a united profession - there wasn't very much solidarity on display during the recession.

Everyone should join the IAI but membership cost between €40 to €100 and can be hard to pay for some. Unions in archaeology are for as much for upping professional standards and retaining skills as increasing pay.

The same as a lot of others I was a member of the IAI but have left, one free copy of a journal that sells for €20 and little else is a poor return for €100 membership fee.

It's up the IAI and the state regulatory agencies to set out professional standards - a task both have proved to be pretty poor at.

In my opinion I would prefer if Unite weren't getting involved in this area at all and focused on just improving pay and conditions.

Aelfric · 07-01-2017 12:30am

P.O.T made some very valid points - I would always choose a professional body over a Union for a profession, as opposed to a trade. That said, the IAI did little or nothing to help or give advice to people when 2008 hit hard, to the point where they refused point blank to lower membership rates to help people afford them. Having been a member since inception, and prior to that IAPA, and also having served on the IAI Board for several years, I was rather disillusioned, and chose to spend my €100 on better things, like keeping the roof over my head. And don't talk to me about 'mandatory' CPD. The stuff on offer isn't a patch on what the now Chartered Institute for Archaeologists in the UK offer. Granted, their membership rates are twice as high, but by golly what you get in return is 10 times better.

I joined the European Association of Archaeologists instead, and get 4 journals per year. Happy the man.

RDM_83 again · 21-01-2017 6:47pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I would imagine any new jobs in the field will be spread between, jobs advertised from new or established practices, public sector jobs, setting up in self employment. Any profession out in the workplace needs representation, imo. However they need to walk before they can run. The profession needs to unite (excuse the pun) behind a body that represents their profession like the IAI and not a union.

---

I don't know much about the representative bodies in existence for Archaeologists but for my own profession at least I've learned a few hard truths after coming through the recession. Every profession needs representation, the correct type of representation.

Maybe there is some truth in this but the fact is that the IAI has a poor (but improving AFAIK) reputation among the majority that actually work in non academic archeology (which is the majority of archaeologists in Ireland).

The perception of many is that the IAI exists not to advance the interests of archaeologists but rather to advance the interests of archeology companies and there has been legitimate reasons to think that this is an accurate assessment.

I agree that a restrictive professional body might be the way to go, it works in other fields, however in other fields the body ensures that members are treated as skilled professionals and receive a skilled professional wage.

Simply, one can't say a professional organization is the way to go without looking at what the majority of workers in the field think of the professional organization.

RDM_83 again · 21-01-2017 6:58pm

Aelfric wrote: »

I have more than 20 years' commercial experience, am licence eligible in both Irish jurisdictions, and yet I haven't been able to get paid archaeology work in Ireland since 2009. I went off to Australia for 18 months, but that didn't work out either. I'm currently working in a 3rd-level research office, look so many of my contemporaries.

That said, I understand from my many contacts in the industry, that things are starting to pick up again, so make sure your Safe Pass is up to date

Don't mean to sound harsh but your possibly a victim of being over qualified for the roles available since the crash, being a licence holder probably isn't an advantage when the roles going are busting through ringforts and fulachtaí fia for poor wages. Did you ever try the UK for work? Self employed there can be pretty decent pay.

slowburner wrote: »

The figures for commercial archaeology may have changed a little since 2014.

The numbers seem low for 2014 anyway if it includes contract people, the numbers also seem to high to be only including full time employees, curious how the reached that figure.

Aelfric · 04-03-2017 11:10am

Aelfric wrote: »

I have more than 20 years' commercial experience, am licence eligible in both Irish jurisdictions, and yet I haven't been able to get paid archaeology work in Ireland since 2009. I went off to Australia for 18 months, but that didn't work out either. I'm currently working in a 3rd-level research office, look so many of my contemporaries.

That said, I understand from my many contacts in the industry, that things are starting to pick up again, so make sure your Safe Pass is up to date

Update - I've just come in from the cold after running a site in the Rebel county for the past 3 months

It seems that all of my contacts are reporting that things are starting to pick up again, and although there are lots of UK firms looking to Ireland for archaeologists, the wages are much better here, so don't go!!

Poor Uncle Tom · 04-03-2017 11:20am

Aelfric wrote: »

Update - I've just come in from the cold after running a site in the Rebel county for the past 3 months

It seems that all of my contacts are reporting that things are starting to pick up again, and although there are lots of UK firms looking to Ireland for archaeologists, the wages are much better here, so don't go!!

That's refreshing...

mocmo · 04-03-2017 12:53pm

Things are certainly picking up in archaeology and there is much more work around, however, pay and conditions are still low for a highly specalised profession. The average graduate salary in Ireland is around €24,000-€28,000. An archaeologist with 20 years experience can expect to earn maybe €35,000-€40,000 gross...it's a pretty poor return after 20 years.

davycc · 12-03-2017 9:42pm

slowburner wrote: »

Some of the glaring statistics from the Archaeology 2025 report:

National Monuments Service: staff reduced by 25%

OPW: no archaeologists employed

National Museum of Ireland: grant aid cut by 40%, staff reduction of 27%

The Heritage Council: budget cut from €20.4 million (2008) to €6.5 million (2015)

Discovery Programme: budget cut by 50%.

Private sector archaeology: In 2007 the major companies employed 966 staff. In 2014, they employed 75. Most of whom earned less than the average industrial wage, despite holding post-graduate qualifications.

INSTAR (Irish National Strategic Archaeological Research programme): funding cut from €1.7 million to €30K.

Ha ha you better type your CVs now nice bit of karma for some of the usuals around here!

Poor Uncle Tom · 12-03-2017 11:31pm

davycc wrote: »

Ha ha you better type your CVs now nice bit of karma for some of the usuals around here!

Begrudgery, or something else?

Arsemageddon · 14-03-2017 8:39pm

davycc wrote: »

Ha ha you better type your CVs now nice bit of karma for some of the usuals around here!

What's your point?

The bleak state of Irish archaeology, and the way forward?

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