Old Tool Restoration

my3cents · 26-04-2016 1:37pm

Anyone notice the plane Gibbs was using in his basement on NCIS the other night. A very nice transitional plane wooden sole and body with steel frame on top with screw adjustment for the blade. iirc it was one very like this....

p5-stanley-plane-no-26-transitional-full-three-quarter-shot.jpg?w=650

p5-stanley-plane-no-26-transitional-full-three-quarter-shot.jpg?w=650

Image stolen from https://handtooljourney.wordpress.com/2014/02/09/a-problem-child-stanley-transitional-26-jack-plane/ where there is a lot more info.

Its interesting that someone on the NCIS show picked a transitional plane as it would take a certain amount of knowledge of woodworking tools to fit the tools used so well with the Gibbs character.

imakebiodiesel · 28-04-2016 1:29pm

Some one on NCIS is knowledgable about woodwork but Im not sure its Gibbs. He looks like an actor who has been shown how to use tools not someone who is genuinely familiar with them. In one episode he found a Shopsmith 10ER in a pawn shop and later went back an bought it. I have an identical machine, its a lathe, a disc sander, a metal grinder, a table saw, a jigsaw, a pillar drill and a spindle moulder all in one. here is a picture of it in disc sander mode.

shopsmith%20sander%20001_zpswvflk86a.jpg

magicbastarder · 28-04-2016 2:23pm

i wonder why no-one is making a modern equivalent?
assuming there is no modern equivalent.

my3cents · 28-04-2016 2:44pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i wonder why no-one is making a modern equivalent?
assuming there is no modern equivalent.

Health and Safety?

imakebiodiesel · 28-04-2016 4:58pm

There is in fact a modern version. but its made in China and cost £3500. Mine was built in 1953, the year I was born, in San Francisco USA. The Shopsmith company went out of business in the 60s. They were not popular with professionals who like all their machines lined up for production work and it was too expensive for most hobbyists. I find it really useful and I can switch from one mode to any other in 2 or 3 minutes. I use it mostly as a lathe for large faceplate work, Disc sanding and sawing with the table saw. I rarely use it in the vertical mode because I have a good drill press.
By modern standards this machine would not pass a health and safety check, but I take responsibility for my own safety in my own workshop.

Wossack · 28-04-2016 10:25pm

my grandad had an old multitool type machine years and years ago - not a shopsmith though.. any alternatives people are aware of?

bruman · 28-04-2016 10:52pm

Wossack wrote: »

my grandad had an old multitool type machine years and years ago - not a shopsmith though.. any alternatives people are aware of?

The Coronet Major. I got one clearing out an old relatives garage . Haven't had time to put it together yet. Loads of parts and all very heavy.

Have a look at www . lathes . co . uk / coronet /

Sorry about the spaces. Not enough posts to paste the url

Wossack · 28-04-2016 11:00pm

think thats it alright! thanks for the details

fascinated by it as a child, but its long gone unfortunately

Calahonda52 · 29-04-2016 9:43pm

Am getting this planer ready for sale and I wonder:

if it is necessary
how best to do it

.
One idea I had was to remove the knives, wind the adjustable table up to the max and run it with a block of fine sand paper.
If I stand at front of machine, it it catches it will go away from me.
The machine is here and is in good condition otherwise
https://casio85gt.smugmug.com/Power-tools-and-other-items-fo/Scheppach-HM-2600-Planer-Thick/

Thanks as always

bonzodog2 · 30-04-2016 10:41am

I'd give it a rub with some fine steel wool first, then cut an inch-wide strip from a sheet of fine wet-and-dry (the longest dimension of the paper) and hold it by the ends, wrapped round the drum, after removing the blades.

Calahonda52 · 30-04-2016 8:45pm

bonzodog2 wrote: »

I'd give it a rub with some fine steel wool first, then cut an inch-wide strip from a sheet of fine wet-and-dry (the longest dimension of the paper) and hold it by the ends, wrapped round the drum, after removing the blades.

This worked out pretty well, thanks: the one downside is that I use fingerprints to access fone, they are gone at the mo from all the sanding:)

delaney001 · 01-05-2016 3:04pm

Anyone care to identify what age or era this plane is?

my3cents · 01-05-2016 3:26pm

delaney001 wrote: »

Anyone care to identify what age or era this plane is?

Its a UK model and there isn't much dating information for them as they aren't really collected and have far less value than the American Stanley's.

If it was an american plane it would probably be a T20 (if the paintwork is blue?) which is 1962 - 1967 but I would guess its a bit be not much newer than that. I'd go with 1970 ish.

magicbastarder · 02-05-2016 1:23am

my3cents wrote: »

Its a UK model ... and have far less value than the American Stanley's.

is that based on rarity or quality?

imakebiodiesel · 02-05-2016 9:13am

Its neither really, the English Stanleys were just as good as the American ones although the Americans would claim their planes are superior. American Stanleys go back to 1880 and are very well documented. from 1915 to 1935 they often had Sweetheart blades that were an improvement over the standard blade.. English Stanley production only started in 1937 and there is very little information that helps to date them.
One of the reasons Record planes are more sought after than English Stanleys is that there is very good accurate information to date them.
My best estimate would be 1960s for your plane.

imakebiodiesel · 02-05-2016 9:50am

I noticed that Sparks picked up a nice wooden smoother at a flea market last week that had some wood worm in the wedge. Wood worm is a common problem with old tools and you should be careful about bringing items into your workshop that are infested. However it is worth treating a tool that is unusual or has sentimental value. Here is my 222 method,
Step one. Wrap the item in a plastic bag and place in the freezer for two weeks.
Step two, immerse the item in Cuprinol wood preservative for 2 days.
Step three, apply two liberal coats of linseed oil thinned with 30% white spirit.

This method not only kills the mature worms but also destroys the eggs that often survive more superficial treatment.

Calahonda52 · 02-05-2016 10:04am

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

This method not only kills the mature worms but also destroys the eggs that often survive more superficial treatment.

And there was me thinking you were a nice, eco, type of guy:D

The real reason for posting here now is to complement you on your freely shared encyclopaedic knowledge.

When you go on Mastermind:
... and your specialist subject is
American Stanleys 1880 (March)
Legend!

imakebiodiesel · 02-05-2016 10:24am

I bought a job lot of old tools from the UK a couple of months ago and at the bottom of the box was a scruffy old no 4 plane with no name on it. I was about to consign it to the spares box but decided it have a closer look. The lever cap had no name on it but on the back was the letters LB. I did a bit of research and realized what I had was an original no 4 by Leonard Bailey. Bailey was a brilliant toolmaker from Boston and designed the still current range of Bailey planes in around 1840. The Stanley Rule and Measure company bought his patent rights in 1880 and employed him to set up production of these planes in their factory in New Britain Mass. He fell out with the Stanley management and after having seen his original plane I can see why.
There were a number of serious compromises in the Stanley models to make them cheaper to make. In the Bailey plane the bottom of the frog and the top of the body contact on a flat machined surface but Stanley changed that to the 4 small" lands" that are still on the current planes. Many years later Stanley released a premium range of planes called the Bedrock series they used Baileys original design.

my3cents · 02-05-2016 4:46pm

Found this while looking for more info...

Stanley Tools UK bought JA Chapman in Sheffield and started making planes in 1937.
Type 1. 1937-39 Rosewood w/brass nuts
Type 2. 1939-45 Beech w/hard rubber nuts.
Type 3. 1945-72 Steel adjusting nuts.
(NB: adjusting nuts went from brass to steel to brass and back in this period. Blade tops changed to rounded at some time C1960s Y-levers went from cast to two-piece stamped and back to cast again at this time)
Type 4. 1972-83 Bed ribs
Type 5. 1983-85 G12-00X series
Type 6. 1985-2008 plastic handled
Type 7. 2008-present New SW planes bodies made in Mexico. Nos 265-11213 series: No 4 smoother, 62 low angle jack, 92 shoulder, 9 1/2 block, 60 1/2 low angle block.

From http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/20/stanley-english-type-study-draft/ which links to the original source of the information.

magicbastarder · 02-05-2016 6:50pm

that'd help date the 5 1/2 i was given - not that i thought it was very old. plastic handles, i reckon it's no more than about 15 years old.

Sparks · 02-05-2016 10:48pm

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

I noticed that Sparks picked up a nice wooden smoother at a flea market last week that had some wood worm in the wedge.

As socrates famously said, I drank what?

I was sure they were just knocked-about-for-years-in-a-box-of-sharp-bits-of-metal holes too...

Sparks · 08-05-2016 9:22pm

Old No.75 plane, just cleaned off the crud and rust on the wire wheel. Not even sure who made it, can't find any makers mark anywhere and it was being sold as "small timber plane"

Don't think it was record, the main body screw for adjusting the throat looks like the wrong shape. Nothing stamped anywhere I can find either, other than the '75' on the cap over the blade. Some japanning on the inside which is either black or 20-years-of-crud colour, I can't quite tell

imakebiodiesel · 09-05-2016 9:57am

The 75s didnt have a makers name cast into the body, just a transfer that wears off quickly. But if it was a Stanley or Record the blade would certainly be stamped. Its a very handy little plane, useful for all sorts for awkward jobs. Last winter the double doors at the back of my house swelled up with the damp and would not close. I used a 75 to shave a little off the rebate and get them closing without having to take the doors off the hinges. Between 3 or 4 layers of paint and 20 years of rust getting those doors off could have been a days work. Its worth taking the time to flat the bottom of these planes, because the castings are not very precise the front part is often higher or lower than the sole which makes them nearly useless. 15 minutes on a sheet of wet and dry on a sheet of glass improves them enormously.

Sparks · 09-05-2016 2:13pm

Nothing at all on the blade I'm afraid. Not that it matters much, if it planes I'm happy. I don't want to get *too* precious about having a collection of tools

I'll have to check the baseplate next, I only had time this weekend to do some rough cleaning of the thing. And I have an 071 to clean up a bit as well (which has some odd screws being pushed into service in replacement of the original thumbscrews

)

jack of all · 09-05-2016 10:17pm

Just a little tip for anyone else here who like to restore old rusty tools to useable condition again. Up to now I've tried electrolysis (too messy/ cumbersome to set up unless you've a batch of stuff needs doing), white vinegar (also messy, stinks the kitchen out and lots of scrubbing required) and the usual wire brushing etc. I'd read on some of the American forums about using "molasses" so I got some black treacle (sugar cane molasses) a few weeks ago and tried it on some rusty bits and pieces. Initial results were disappointing- it took an age and you don't want to be waiting around weeks for something to start happening- at least I don't anyway otherwise I lose interest.

I had all but given up on the molasses but I decided to pop some recent rusty acquisitions into it over the weekend- low and behold with the higher temperatures we've been experiencing it worked a treat- I'm sold on it! I had an old Elliot Lucas pliers and a good Footprint tin snips, both with very little wear but pretty rusty. Popped them in on Sunday and was pleasantly surprised with how well they cleaned up, just a gently scrub under hot water removed the bulk of the residue. I'm going to finish them off with another dip overnight to remove the worst patches. Best part is it can be re-used againa nd again so it's pretty cheap and is environmentally friendly. Try it out and see for yourselves.

Sparks · 22-05-2016 5:45pm

I'm quite happy with that one, it needed minimal cleaning and a quickish resharpening and it was taking off lovely thin shavings. And thanks to imakebiodiesel for the tip about the best crucible cast steel, it takes a lovely edge.

And just to help tidy up some tenon shoulders:

2016-05-22-17.40.32a.jpg

imakebiodiesel · 06-06-2016 10:34am

Im glad you are pleased with your Record cast steel blade. They really are a pleasure to work with. Once its sharpened up can produce a finish on the wood that looks as if it has been polished.
Thats a nice little 077 bullnose you have got there. Im the sort of person that never throws any thing out and I have had the lever cap for one of those in my spares box for several years ago. I was browsing on Fleabay this weekend and came across a 077 with a broken lever cap. I was the only bidder and I got it for a tenner.

Calahonda52 · 11-06-2016 6:17pm

Got back my four speed cramps from my brother in law..
The attached shows a sort of before and after, having dipped them in the vinegar and salt mix, followed by a good scrub with a green kitchen scrub pad and rinsed off with the baking soda, water and then oiled up:
I did the 4 foot T bars as well, using a plastic down pipe, sealed at the end.

imakebiodiesel · 12-06-2016 10:53am

Nice job, does the vinegar treatment affect the painted parts?

I was given a load of old files and rasps recently, very dirty and encrusted with rust. I tried out a method I had read about. I put them into a polyethylene tub and covered them with sulphuric acid from a couple of old car batteries. Took them out 48 hours later and a gave them a quick scrub with a wire brush under cold water. They look like new and cut like new.
I wouldnt recommend you do this in you kitchen though and be sure to wear heavy chemical proof gloves and full face protection, not just safety specs.

Calahonda52 · 12-06-2016 11:08am

Re
... does the vinegar treatment affect the painted parts?

I didn't dip the painted parts on the speed cramps or on the T bars, I did with some cramp heads and the paint was fine, it removed the rust spots from where they were chipped but rest of the heads were fine.
The only issue is making sure the threaded part is well cleared of the vinegar, I did smear the threads with some grease before hand

As for
H2SO4....

Old Tool Restoration

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