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Dole claimants who refuse offers of work will have payments cut

  • 24-04-2011 4:03pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭


    WELFARE CLAIMANTS WHO are unwilling to take up education or training for new jobs will have their dole payments cut under new measures revealed by the minister for social protection Joan Burton.


    Burton will become the first minister to impose benefit cuts on those who refuse to take up offers of work as she vowed to get Ireland back to work and cut down on workers who are paid cash-in-hand but still claim welfare, reports the Irish Mail on Sunday.
    The minister has told the paper that if people out of work were not engaging in the process of seeking employment, they would lose some of their benefits.


    While it is an interesting and plausible welcome way to stop people from living on welfare and weed out the wasters.
    I do fear though might cause some workers to be forced into jobs that will be poorly paid and end up in worse poverty.But they wont car because they are working.
    Especially families.
    They need to work on getting the childminding fees back down also car tax and food prices and petrol, public transport etc..
    http://www.thejournal.ie/dole-claimants-who-refuse-offers-of-work-will-have-payments-cut-126003-Apr2011/


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭jpfahy


    She's only doing it because the ECB is making her do it.
    I'll bet she won't cut it by much (Sadly).


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    How the flying fcuk has this not always been the case??


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    Chief--- wrote: »
    How the flying fcuk has this not always been the case??

    This. I am tired of hearing this but nothing been done about it. There are plenty of examples in my town and towns all over the country of local drunks who have never worked a day in their life still getting the dole week in week out. Then if I were to lose my job tomorrow I get the exact same benefits as these toerags, if not less.
    Rewarding single mothers needs to be an issue that is changed also


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Excluding training, in certain circumstances, this is an entirely logical step. How it has not been the case already is beyond me.

    I mention the possible exclusion of training because I've heard far too many instances of highly able university graduates beeing offered rudimentary Fas courses like ECDL or its equivalent, which reduces the whole thing to a bit of a joke, quite frankly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    the first people that should be shoved off welfare and into any kind of jobs is the people who were able to work, but unwilling during the boom (or full employment).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭voter1983


    It's about time this was done. There have been people in society who have been scrounging off the state for too long. How could people justify not having jobs at the height of the boom when we were actively seeking people to work at jobs in this country.

    Dont get me wrong i feel genuinely sorry for people actively seeking work and throught no fault of their own cant find any but there are other people who have been taking the piss with years!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    They should really try a case by case policy.
    You can't put the same restrictions on somebody who worked their entire adult life, paying tax and find themselves on the dole with those who seem to make a career out of signing on.
    Basically if you are qualified in a certain area or educated to a certain level you should be given a period for seeking employment at that level, if pretty new to the dole. That's regarding courses and state subsidised jobs. Long term people should take anything offered really.
    This may sound harsh, but what about capping childrens allowance on the number of kids, You can have as many as you like but the state won't finance a football team?
    We all must know or have known working couples holding off on kid/s until they can afford it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Sparks43


    Why not take time to find out what the unemployed scroats/drunks/junkies/wasters are actually able to offer or can be trained to do, rather then pushing people into a situation that would be no use to them or there employer


    Sorry that would make too much sense in this ****hole of a Country we live in.:mad:



    14% unemployment last time i checked!

    Do we really have that many layabouts?


    I am unemployed

    I am not a drunk/scroat/junkie/waster


    If i was asked to work a certain amount of hours per week in a productive scheme i would jump at it



    This is where we should look at people on benefits

    Get them back into a routine

    Help them with skills

    Protect them from shark employers

    And most important give them confidence

    Shag all of that around at the moment


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Sparks43 wrote: »

    This is where we should look at people on benefits

    Get them back into a routine

    Help them with skills

    Protect them from shark employers

    And most important give them confidence

    Shag all of that around at the moment

    All that is available in Ireland. I don't know much about FÁS but you can do some computer courses and other courses too. Fork lift driving would be a good one.
    Obair have offices, not very many now but they do good work and would give confidence.

    CERT does training for tourism industry. I did a course with them in Limerick and loved it. Great experienced people working for them and you get lots of skills, I got a few jobs out of it. :)
    I think CERT got taken over by Tourism Ireland these days.

    However, some people are just damn unemployable. On that CERT course were several long term unemployed who were ordered to get on a course, any course. Maybe they're in a rut but they sat around moaning about everything and the world was against them. I wouldn't give them a job, no employer would. This was 2002 btw, and unemployment wasn't so high back then


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Clareboy


    Drumpot wrote: »
    the first people that should be shoved off welfare and into any kind of jobs is the people who were able to work, but unwilling during the boom (or full employment).

    Full Employment! What a Joke! There were over 160,000 Irish people who could not get a job in their own country during the so called boom!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Clareboy wrote: »
    Full Employment! What a Joke! There were over 160,000 Irish people who could not get a job in their own country during the so called boom!

    Theres always a portion who would prefer to be sitting on their ass getting the dole than out working.. oh sounds shocking I know. Some even university educated. Various people who did a lot of drugs in college, low self-esteem, social anxiety, etc, etc. Able to work, but the dole was easier.

    Its a system very open for abuse.

    Leave it there, but cut the ways it can be abused, e.g. the topic - cut payments of those not willing to work/take a course

    "Full employment" is an economic term, it doesn't mean that every single person has a job. If you have social welfare, a certain portion of the population will rather
    take that welfare than ever work, regardless of how many jobs are available - you could probably put that figure at 160,000 ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭bradlente


    As long as it dosn't include forcing ****ty courses that are of no interest upon the person involved its fair enough.

    They're really backed into a corner now.The dole is relatively high whilst the lowest end type of job is not.Why would someone go out and do a full-time job that they don't like for maybe 50 euro more in the week?Unless its a job worth doing thats semi-enjoyable or helps people in distress of course people are going to reject doing it.
    Does this mean if I'm offered a job cleaning toilets or having to take abuse from drunkards whilst serving them I have to take it?No offence to people that do those types of things,Fair dues in fact(I've done 1 of them),they're hard working jobs.But forcing people to work under certain conditions and circumstances that their not content with in jobs they will outright hate,Just because of their locality to said job,Is a fairly silly idea imo.

    Having a bitter unhappy lower class workforce is perhaps as detrimental to society as a couple of dole sponges.But if its good for this cluster**** of an economy then what the hey,eh?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    This should always have been the case.

    Unfortunately those who wish to continue to get their welfare payments and never consider working will quite easily get around this. All they have to do is attend their GP and tell them a cock and bull story and they will be put on a disability allowance. I even know of certain elected TD's who advise people how they can get around the system and even continue claim welfare whilst they are doing work behind the scenes.

    The system needs reforming from top to bottom in order to ensure it is used in a legitimate manner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Drumpot wrote: »
    the first people that should be shoved off welfare and into any kind of jobs is the people who were able to work, but unwilling during the boom (or full employment).

    Absolutely. I can think of a fair few off hand who fit perfectly into this bracket. Cutting the benefits of these people, along with the promise of a clamp down in dole cheats would be a great start to tackling the abuse of the welfare system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Clareboy wrote: »
    Full Employment! What a Joke! There were over 160,000 Irish people who could not get a job in their own country during the so called boom!

    No, there were people who were unfit to work, which is perfectly acceptable but there were also people who preferred to stay on the dole and live off benefits. Cafe's, bar, restaurants, ... were begging people to come and work for them during the boom years. Many who stayed on the dole by choice considered themselves to be above those jobs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Clareboy wrote: »
    Full Employment! What a Joke! There were over 160,000 Irish people who could not get a job in their own country during the so called boom!
    I think the lowest it went to was about 70,000 actually. Where did you get that figure?

    Note; not all of the 70,000 I mentioned would have been claiming benefits, nor entitled to benefits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    link


    Dole claimants who refuse offers of work will have payments cut


    WELFARE CLAIMANTS WHO are unwilling to take up education or training for new jobs will have their dole payments cut under new measures revealed by the minister for social protection Joan Burton.

    Burton will become the first minister to impose benefit cuts on those who refuse to take up offers of work as she vowed to get Ireland back to work and cut down on workers who are paid cash-in-hand but still claim welfare, reports the Irish Mail on Sunday.

    The minister has told the paper that if people out of work were not engaging in the process of seeking employment, they would lose some of their benefits.

    She added that whilst is not looking to leave people “destitute” she has made a commitment to the International Monetary Fund that she will cut the current unemployment rate of 14.7 per cent.


    Doesn't seem to be anything too controversial here: refuse to work and get payments cut.

    Thoughts on this?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Is this going to be based on the current system of:
    "are you looking for work"
    "yes"
    "okay then, off you go"

    ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭end a eknny


    funny when there was work they didnt bother now when there is none they bring this forward


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    This is something that has to be done. I have had several interactions with peers that feel as if the dole is purely money for booze or a night out. It must also be recognized that the benefit system in this country is not structurally sound and needs a huge readjustment.
    Coming back to this topic, I think it is fantastic that it is being implemented. However it needs to be done in such a way that people who physically can't work because of health problems are forced to take payment cuts because of this development.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Is this going to be based on the current system of:
    "are you looking for work"
    "yes"
    "okay then, off you go"

    ?
    Presumably it'll operate like Clintoin's system: based on if a person is offered work and refuses without a valid reason, then their payments are cut.
    funny when there was work they didnt bother now when there is none they bring this forward
    Probably as now it's more important than ever to entice people off the dole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    This is going to turn into a drive to force people into minimum wage positions......a modern day form of slave labour!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    EarlERizer wrote: »
    This is going to turn into a drive to force people into minimum wage positions......a modern day form of slave labour!

    How is this slave labour? If someone doesn't want to work, noone can force them. However, neither can they expect to receive the same social welfare payouts as someone who is genuinely seeking employment.


    I'm a firm believer in the welfare state but I can't understand the notion that those who refuse to work should be entitled to the same payouts as others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Theres always a portion who would prefer to be sitting on their ass getting the dole than out working.. oh sounds shocking I know. Some even university educated. Various people who did a lot of drugs in college, low self-esteem, social anxiety, etc, etc. Able to work, but the dole was easier.

    This makes me think that you've never seen a drug in your life (and possibly read the Daily Mail)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    Lockstep wrote: »
    How is this slave labour? If someone doesn't want to work, noone can force them. However, neither can they expect to receive the same social welfare payouts as someone who is genuinely seeking employment.

    I'm a firm believer in the welfare state but I can't understand the notion that those who refuse to work should be entitled to the same payouts as others.

    Agreed,however expecting people to work for a wage that's not in line with the current cost of living, in my opinion,constitutes modern day slave labour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    There's plenty of people who are qualified to work in certain areas, but are unable to find work in their areas in Ireland.

    There must be incentives aimed at maintaining existing skill levels and not just giving people mickey mouse courses because it looks good on paper, otherwise people will continue to emigrate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    EarlERizer wrote: »
    Agreed,however expecting people to work for a wage that's not in line with the current cost of living, in my opinion,constitutes modern day slave labour.

    The minimum wage isn't slave labour, likewise, persons aren't forced to work for it. However, neither can they expect to receive €200 a week when they can't be bothered working.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jamesbrond


    caseyann wrote: »
    WELFARE CLAIMANTS WHO are unwilling to take up education or training for new jobs will have their dole payments cut under new measures revealed by the minister for social protection Joan Burton.


    Burton will become the first minister to impose benefit cuts on those who refuse to take up offers of work as she vowed to get Ireland back to work and cut down on workers who are paid cash-in-hand but still claim welfare, reports the Irish Mail on Sunday.
    The minister has told the paper that if people out of work were not engaging in the process of seeking employment, they would lose some of their benefits.


    While it is an interesting and plausible welcome way to stop people from living on welfare and weed out the wasters.
    I do fear though might cause some workers to be forced into jobs that will be poorly paid and end up in worse poverty.But they wont car because they are working.
    Especially families.
    They need to work on getting the childminding fees back down also car tax and food prices and petrol, public transport etc..
    http://www.thejournal.ie/dole-claimants-who-refuse-offers-of-work-will-have-payments-cut-126003-Apr2011/

    If you ask me, i think thats the sole intention of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    Lockstep wrote: »
    The minimum wage isn't slave labour, likewise, persons aren't forced to work for it. However, neither can they expect to receive €200 a week when they can't be bothered working.

    Sorry,where is it that i'm saying give people money for nothing? like i said,I AGREE with your point! ....... now here's the line your missing "In my opinion minimum wage is modern day slave labour" it's just my opinion based on the current cost of living vs minimum wage.

    p.s. my opinion is based on experience.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭end a eknny


    at the minute there is a severe lack of jobs and its worse it is going to get. the goverment alone intends make tens of thousands unemployed. this leads to 2 points the first being the goverment will have no way to enforce this and secondly the govermant would give some organisation like fas about 20,000 to take somebody whos claiming 10,000 of the dole the usual economic disaster followed by irish goverments


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