How fluent are the Portuguese at Spanish?

bobbyss · 12-03-2019 8:03pm #1

Maybe our Spanish friends could deal with this. Both languages are close. Could a Spaniard and a Portuguese have a conversation in Spanish? How much would be understood? How fluent is Ronaldo at Spanish disregarding accent?

12-03-2019 8:06pm

I remember having a conversation with a Spaniard about this once, and I *think*the Portuguese can understand Spanish better than the Spanish can understand Portuguese.

But both are reasonably intelligible to one another, probably like Norwegian and Danish.

normanoffside · 12-03-2019 8:10pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Maybe our Spanish friends could deal with this. Both languages are close. Could a Spaniard and a Portuguese have a conversation in Spanish? How much would be understood? How fluent is Ronaldo at Spanish disregarding accent?

Portuguese people find it easy enough to speak Spanish. They are from a smaller country and generally learn it a bit. Also Spanish is easier to understand in general. It has an easier accent on the ear and everything is pronounced in a standard fashion.

Spanish people find it harder to understand Portuguese, they could read most of it but not speak it. The accent and pronunciation is harsher (almost sounds like Russian ). Also being the bigger country of the two neighbours the Spanish don't bother learning.
People from the Galician region of Spain, do have their own language 'Gallego' which is a variant of Portuguese so they can all speak and understand it.

bobbyss · 12-03-2019 8:17pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

I remember having a conversation with a Spaniard about this once, and I *think*the Portuguese can understand Spanish better than the Spanish can understand Portuguese.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

But both are reasonably intelligible to one another, probably like Norwegian and Danish.

I recall Ronaldo and Figo and other Portuguese footballers speaking Spanish soon after bring transferred to Spanish teams and speaking what seems to me perfect Spanish but of course I wouldn't know. I'm wondering would they say things in Spanish like:
" I play a good game today" or ' I am very calm here in Liverpol'. Three are typical usages of Portuguese and indeed Spaniards playing in England. Thier English is off. Would their Spanish be similarly off I am wondering.

Spleerbun · 12-03-2019 8:18pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Portuguese people find it easy enough to speak Spanish. They are from a smaller country and generally learn it a bit. Also Spanish is easier to understand in general. It has an easier accent on the ear and everything is pronounced in a standard fashion.

Spanish people find it harder to understand Portuguese, they could read most of it but not speak it. The accent and pronunciation is harsher (almost sounds like Russian ). Also being the bigger country of the two neighbours the Spanish don't bother learning.
People from the Galician region of Spain, do have their own language 'Gallego' which is a variant of Portuguese so they can all speak and understand it.

^^ this.

Also to answer your other question, Ronaldo's Spanish whenever I've seen him interviewed is very good but he lived in Madrid for 8 or 9 years so it's not just down to him being Portuguese. He also doesn't change his accent at all, he just says Spanish words in his own accent

12-03-2019 8:20pm

bobbyss wrote: »

I recall Ronaldo and Figo and other Portuguese footballers speaking Spanish soon after bring transferred to Spanish teams and speaking what seems to me perfect Spanish but of course I wouldn't know. I'm wondering would they say things in Spanish like:
" I play a good game today" or ' I am very calm here in Liverpol'. Three are typical usages of Portuguese and indeed Spaniards playing in England. Thier English is off. Would their Spanish be similarly off I am wondering.

I reckon so.

I also wonder about Spanish speakers from South America and Spaniards. Do they perceive one another like Americans and Brits perceive one another's grasp of English?

I have muchos questions

normanoffside · 12-03-2019 8:20pm

Italian and Spanish are actually much closer.
Any random Italian can chat away with a Random Spaniard, each in their own language, they just have to speak slowly.

Spleerbun · 12-03-2019 8:22pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I reckon so.

I also wonder about Spanish speakers from South America and Spaniards. Do they perceive one another like Americans and Brits perceive one another's grasp of English?

I have muchos questions

I know a lot of Spaniards, several of whom watch Narcos with subtitles

SEPT 23 1989 · 12-03-2019 8:22pm

scorchio

GLaDOS · 12-03-2019 8:23pm

A Spanish girl a worked with spent a month in Brazil and could communicate functionally (with some humourous mistakes). So its doable, if not necessarily easy.

normanoffside · 12-03-2019 8:23pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I reckon so.

I also wonder about Spanish speakers from South America and Spaniards. Do they perceive one another like Americans and Brits perceive one another's grasp of English?

I have muchos questions

Yeah, pretty much. Spaniards would see most variants of South/Central American Spanish as a 'bastardised' form of the language.
They would find it funny/sympathetic but look down on it a bit.

Ipso · 12-03-2019 8:28pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Italian and Spanish are actually much closer.
Any random Italian can chat away with a Random Spaniard, each in their own language, they just have to speak slowly.

Are they, I thought Spanish and Portoguese have more to do with vulgar latin.

normanoffside · 12-03-2019 8:31pm

Ipso wrote: »

Are they, I thought Spanish and Portoguese have more to do with vulgar latin.

Italian is also derived from Vulgar Latin. I've learned both, it took 3 years to learn Italian and about 3 weeks to learn Spanish as a result.

chicorytip · 12-03-2019 8:32pm

Portuguese is a very different sounding language to Spanish, I think. If you were to listen to a recording of Portuguese people talking without being aware of their nationality you might well believe they were from an African nation.

12-03-2019 8:34pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much. Spaniards would see most variants of South/Central American Spanish as a 'bastardised' form of the language.
They would find it funny/sympathetic but look down on it a bit.

you've just reminded me of a girl I shared a house with in college. She was from Bolivia, but from a relatively wealthy 'Spanish' corner of the country (Santa Cruz) where they prided themselves on sounding more like Spaniards than South Americans.

I also remember her telling me that Spanish-speaking South Americans find the Brazilian-Portuguese accent very sexy, probably like our attitude towards French. This is very strange to my mind, because as another poster mentioned, Portuguese sounds very harsh, almost Slavic.

Spleerbun · 12-03-2019 8:47pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

you've just reminded me of a girl I shared a house with in college. She was from Bolivia, but from a relatively wealthy 'Spanish' corner of the country (Santa Cruz) where they prided themselves on sounding more like Spaniards than South Americans.

I also remember her telling me that Spanish-speaking South Americans find the Brazilian-Portuguese accent very sexy, probably like our attitude towards French. This is very strange to my mind, because as another poster mentioned, Portuguese sounds very harsh, almost Slavic.

Worth noting here though that Brazilian Portuguese in general sounds way less Slavic than Portuguese from Portugal.

normanoffside · 12-03-2019 8:47pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I also remember her telling me that Spanish-speaking South Americans find the Brazilian-Portuguese accent very sexy, probably like our attitude towards French. This is very strange to my mind, because as another poster mentioned, Portuguese sounds very harsh, almost Slavic.

The Brazilian Portuguese accent is a lot more sympathetic and musical than the Portuguese one though.
You can even see that in English (think of a Brazilian footballer and a Portuguese Footballer/Manager).

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 12-03-2019 9:58pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I reckon so.

I also wonder about Spanish speakers from South America and Spaniards. Do they perceive one another like Americans and Brits perceive one another's grasp of English?

I have muchos questions

Spleerbun wrote: »

I know a lot of Spaniards, several of whom watch Narcos with subtitles

In fairness, the main actor is Brazilian and speaks terrible Spanish.

Latin Americans often dislike the Spanish accent. They think it sounds daft and find it hard to understand. Of course, there is a huge variety of accents in Latin America but they share some key similarities.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

you've just reminded me of a girl I shared a house with in college. She was from Bolivia, but from a relatively wealthy 'Spanish' corner of the country (Santa Cruz) where they prided themselves on sounding more like Spaniards than South Americans.

I also remember her telling me that Spanish-speaking South Americans find the Brazilian-Portuguese accent very sexy, probably like our attitude towards French. This is very strange to my mind, because as another poster mentioned, Portuguese sounds very harsh, almost Slavic.

Santa Cruz people are also proud of being white. They are massive bigots towards natives.

Brazilian Portuguese is far nicer to listen to than European Portuguese.

Bogotanos take great pride in having the most neutral Spanish. Maybe that's true of the accent, but they use a huge amount of slang that only Colombians understand.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 12-03-2019 10:04pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Italian and Spanish are actually much closer.
Any random Italian can chat away with a Random Spaniard, each in their own language, they just have to speak slowly.

There's a lot of diversity in Italian though.

The Sicilian dialect is considered to be almost a different language .

You put somebody from Milan into the south of Italy and they'll have difficulties.

12-03-2019 10:18pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Santa Cruz people are also proud of being white. They are massive bigots towards natives.

I don't want to generalise, but yes 'Cambas' often seem to demand to be seen as non-Hispanic, and often seem to have a complex about being considered Bolivian. Those I've met seem to emphasise their Spanish heritage.

We often think of South America as an homogenous bloc. It is far from being so.

Nigel Fairservice · 12-03-2019 10:21pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I reckon so.

I also wonder about Spanish speakers from South America and Spaniards. Do they perceive one another like Americans and Brits perceive one another's grasp of English?

I have muchos questions

I went out with a French girl once and I asked her this question in relation to the French and French Canadians. She said you could tell straight away you were talking to a French Canadian (I'm not a French speaker so I would not be able to distinguish) and the French spoken by them was similar to the French her grandmother spoke. The French spoken by French Canadians didn't evolve in a similar manner to the French spoken in France. Geographic reasons I suppose.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 12-03-2019 10:24pm

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I went out with a French girl once and I asked her this question in relation to the French and French Canadians. She said you could tell straight away you were talking to a French Canadian and the French spoken by them was similar to the French her grandmother spoke. The French spoken by French Canadians didn't evolve in a similar manner to the French spoken in France. Geographic reasons I suppose.

From what I know, it hung onto a lot of words and phrases that died out in France.

English is somewhat similar. Many distinctly Irish or American sayings are actually from England but died out there centuries ago.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 12-03-2019 10:25pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't want to generalise, but yes 'Cambas' often seem to demand to be seen as non-Hispanic, and often seem to have a complex about being considered Bolivian. Those I've met seem to emphasise their Spanish heritage.

We often think of South America as an homogenous bloc. It is far from being so.

Many South American countries are incredibly diverse. Colombia is like several countries rolled into one. And when you compare separate countries, they are often extremely different.

normanoffside · 12-03-2019 10:44pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There's a lot of diversity in Italian though.

The Sicilian dialect is considered to be almost a different language .

You put somebody from Milan into the south of Italy and they'll have difficulties.

Sicilian is a different language though, not a dialect. ( Though in Italy, especially in the south, every region has its own language which they call ‘dialetto’)

In the scene in the Godfather in the restaurant where the mobsters speak to Al Pacino in Italian with English sub titles, well in the Italian version (which is dubbed) they speak in Sicilian with Italian subtitles. The effect is the same, the American cop ( or in the dubbed version, the audience), can’t undestand a word.

When Italians are speaking standard Italian, which they all learn in school, they all understand each other.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz · 12-03-2019 10:55pm

bobbyss wrote: »

Maybe our Spanish friends could deal with this. Both languages are close. Could a Spaniard and a Portuguese have a conversation in Spanish? How much would be understood? How fluent is Ronaldo at Spanish disregarding accent?

I know enough Real :pac: Portuguese to get my message across albeit not always using the correct word. I can somewhat read Portuguese but cannot write anything.

When in Tenerife it was easy enough for me to converse with the locals (restaurants, border control, asking for directions, etc...) and we understood each other. They immediately knew I was Portuguese.

So to answer your question, if me with barely passable Portuguese could get around Tenerife without much hassle, a person who is fluent in their respective languages will be able to get along with the other just grand.

How fluent are the Portuguese at Spanish?

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