Releasing your own music on your own label.

frobisher · 08-05-2008 7:01pm #1

I'm planning to record an album for release on my own label. I know, I must be mad :rolleyes: (that's the first time that new smilie has felt just right!). I'm a songwriter first and label/promo person last but at the same time I have to say that I like the idea of getting my hands dirty on the non musical side of things. I've got some experience running a business and that's the approach I'll take. Once the tracks come back from the mastering house it's business all the way.

I've been round long enough to know a bit about how the muso industry works in all its filthy glory but am very aware it will all be a big learning experience as I go.

I'd really love to hear from anyone who's gone down this route or has any thoughts. The good, the bad and the ugly. Some of you dance guys do this a fair bit, right? My music isn't dance and it's a whole other world in some ways but it'd be great to get it all out here for others to hear about too.

Any thoughts or wisdoms to share?

sei046 · 08-05-2008 7:08pm

Will be very interested to hear this. Its definitely how things are going. I have no idea how the logistics of all this works!

PaulBrewer · 08-05-2008 7:10pm

Congrats Chief!

I don't know if you noticed a post I did recently about the Aftermath doing exactly the same thing ... and with some initial success.

Johnny the Singer/Songwriter is one of the most personable humans one could meet on a days march - Get them on MySpace and drop him a line.

He's the kind of guy who'd go out of his way to help...

Bren_M.Records · 08-05-2008 7:16pm

Good for you fella.

Your previously business experience will prove invaluable.
Its not that its hard setting up your own label its just that it takes time to research how to go about doing things that come natural to someone who has previous business experience.

Keep us posted on how things are working out for you.

frobisher · 08-05-2008 7:59pm

sei046 wrote: »

Will be very interested to hear this. Its definitely how things are going. I have no idea how the logistics of all this works!

As you say it is a huge issue for todays music makers. I think there are many ways to do it. My plan is to start with internet sales and build from there with a view to trying to get good leverage on securing proper distribution.

Ok, I'll lay down some plans that I have. What I will say though is that they are tentative and things will undoubtedly change as it develops. Initially I'm going to do some real basic digital download releases, maybe singles, maybe an EP of older material or a barebones acoustic set. This is to purely get the hang of it all and learn by doing. I'll be targeting a mailing list that I've collected over the last while and internet resources where North American & Australian fans of acoustic, rock/pop and college rock hang out. There are quite a few of them out there and they are eager to hear new music from this part of the world. I've already been getting a little radio play in that world and will push on that with each release. I don't see Ireland being the place my music will get a foothold although I'll be looking to sell hard copies of these releases at as many gigs as possible. For the digital releases I'll use different aggregators and services like CDbaby and tunecore etc to see how they are in practise. This is all just a trial run but I'll be looking to break even which will mean about 30 or 40 sales per release. There will be a Tee-shirt available too. I'll also be working very hard to make a strong contact with people who buy anything through blogs, bulletins, entertaining news letters etc. I think for a solo artist with music like mine this is hugely important. Being real counts for a lot.

When I think I've got my head around how it's all working and how much lead time is required for various aspects of it all, I'll start moving towards the full release. Whether or not I do it as a sole trader or incorporate as ltd company is unsure yet but I will certainly be doing it all above board on label registered with the CRO.

Budget is important and I'll be doing it on a shoestring but won't let it stand in the way. Invention is the mother of necessity and all that

. It'll be self recorded, possibly self mixed (although I'd really rather not do that!), pro-mastered, there'll be a nice cover, have a couple of cheap but funky videos, a bar code, fully registered in all regards required (royalty orgs, release forms from musicians, cover version paper work in place etc) and all the little things that need to be put in place. At this stage I'd probably take the foot off the writing pedal and base my work on promoting the album in two ways; locally through gigging and on line through the avenues mentioned above.

Anyone who's been down this route is probably spotting one glaring absence between this plan and untold pop rock millions, physical distribution & promo. Gulp. There's always something, isn't there. I fully intend on approaching all the Irish distribution companies and who knows what will happen but my focus will mainly be outside Ireland. Already I've had an offer of distribution in Germany so who knows but I won't be factoring physical distribution into my business plan. The plan HAS to viable on a grass roots level without needing any external company agreeing to get involved. It's all based on direct sales or sales through services mentioned above. The investment is the amount the whole thing costs to set up and complete and the time that will go into it. The absolute minimum return I'll accept is to earn enough to pay for the next album and a greater level of promo next time round. Exactly how many units that is is still up in the air but the figure of an intial 1000 sales might just do it. And if it does? Add another egg, shake and bake one more album. And if doesn't? Push harder until the sales rack up and there is enough money to do it again.

At this kind of level I'd like to have a quick turn around on albums, more than one a year. I think it's the best way to stay really relevant in the mind of music fans when you're facing multi-million dollar competition from bands in every magazine and newspaper everyday of the year.

Right, that's the way my arrow is pointing in todays wind. And of course the above sounds easy when in reality is one serious wheel barrow load of work. But then we didn't all pick up guitars because we were afraid of hard work did we?

:p

sei046 · 08-05-2008 8:05pm

Fair play to you man. You have the right idea anyway

jtsuited · 08-05-2008 8:06pm

being one of the dance lads, i'll give my tuppence worth.

basically starting your own label is gonna be real difficult. You'll most likely have to go through an aggregator. And this is where your problem is. There are millions of releases coming out on these aggregators and the average standard is actually a hell of a lot worse than stuff on established labels. not only that, the signal to noise ratio is ridiculous.

I've seen a lot of this happening in the dance scene with absolute crap coming out on tiny labels through aggregators and none of it selling whatsoever.

I think if you were an established artist with an unknown label, you have a chance. Or if you're an unknown artist on an established label.

Otherwise you're really fighting one hell of an uphill battle.

Edit: Sonikpollen are one aggregator I know of. They're based in dublin coincidentally. A friend of mine's album is out on itunes etc. with them. Don't think it's sold much at all.

sei046 · 08-05-2008 8:10pm

Well I think no matter what way you look at it the music is going to have to be strong, If it wasnt im sure its not going to work no matter what!

jtsuited · 08-05-2008 8:14pm

sei046 wrote: »

Well I think no matter what way you look at it the music is going to have to be strong, If it wasnt im sure its not going to work no matter what!

unfortunately, in music now you really are gonna have to be something special to shine through the crap.

Luckily I've got releases coming out on fairly well selling labels so yay. No attempt at shining for me.

sei046 · 08-05-2008 8:19pm

what you mean no attempt at shining?

fitz · 08-05-2008 8:19pm

frobisher wrote: »

As you say it is a huge issue for todays music makers. I think there are many ways to do it. My plan is to start with internet sales and build from there with a view to trying to get good leverage on securing proper distribution.

Ok, I'll lay down some plans that I have. What I will say though is that they are tentative and things will undoubtedly change as it develops. Initially I'm going to do some real basic digital download releases, maybe singles, maybe an EP of older material or a barebones acoustic set. This is to purely get the hang of it all and learn by doing. I'll be targeting a mailing list that I've collected over the last while and internet resources where North American & Australian fans of acoustic, rock/pop and college rock hang out. There are quite a few of them out there and they are eager to hear new music from this part of the world. I've already been getting a little radio play in that world and will push on that with each release. I don't see Ireland being the place my music will get a foothold although I'll be looking to sell hard copies of these releases at as many gigs as possible. For the digital releases I'll use different aggregators and services like CDbaby and tunecore etc to see how they are in practise. This is all just a trial run but I'll be looking to break even which will mean about 30 or 40 sales per release. There will be a Tee-shirt available too. I'll also be working very hard to make a strong contact with people who buy anything through blogs, bulletins, entertaining news letters etc. I think for a solo artist with music like mine this is hugely important. Being real counts for a lot.

When I think I've got my head around how it's all working and how much lead time is required for various aspects of it all, I'll start moving towards the full release. Whether or not I do it as a sole trader or incorporate as ltd company is unsure yet but I will certainly be doing it all above board on label registered with the CRO.

Budget is important and I'll be doing it on a shoestring but won't let it stand in the way. Invention is the mother of necessity and all that . It'll be self recorded, possibly self mixed (although I'd really rather not do that!), pro-mastered, there'll be a nice cover, have a couple of cheap but funky videos, a bar code, fully registered in all regards required (royalty orgs, release forms from musicians, cover version paper work in place etc) and all the little things that need to be put in place. At this stage I'd probably take the foot off the writing pedal and base my work on promoting the album in two ways; locally through gigging and on line through the avenues mentioned above.

Anyone who's been down this route is probably spotting one glaring absence between this plan and untold pop rock millions, physical distribution & promo. Gulp. There's always something, isn't there. I fully intend on approaching all the Irish distribution companies and who knows what will happen but my focus will mainly be outside Ireland. Already I've had an offer of distribution in Germany so who knows but I won't be factoring physical distribution into my business plan. The plan HAS to viable on a grass roots level without needing any external company agreeing to get involved. It's all based on direct sales or sales through services mentioned above. The investment is the amount the whole thing costs to set up and complete and the time that will go into it. The absolute minimum return I'll accept is to earn enough to pay for the next album and a greater level of promo next time round. Exactly how many units that is is still up in the air but the figure of an intial 1000 sales might just do it. And if it does? Add another egg, shake and bake one more album. And if doesn't? Push harder until the sales rack up and there is enough money to do it again.

At this kind of level I'd like to have a quick turn around on albums, more than one a year. I think it's the best way to stay really relevant in the mind of music fans when you're facing multi-million dollar competition from bands in every magazine and newspaper everyday of the year.

Right, that's the way my arrow is pointing in todays wind. And of course the above sounds easy when in reality is one serious wheel barrow load of work. But then we didn't all pick up guitars because we were afraid of hard work did we? :p

I have a very similar plan in mind. Best of luck to you dude. I'll be following your progress with interest!

jtsuited · 08-05-2008 8:21pm

sei046 wrote: »

what you mean no attempt at shining?

as in i was jokingly saying that even if my stuff was rubbish it would still sell as it's on established labels. shining through the crap.

but it's not rubbish

the_syco · 08-05-2008 8:21pm

Browse a few of the smaller music stores in and around Dublin, to see who may take your stuff. A mate has plans to go down the same route with his band, and is planning on getting Sound Cellar (place that sells metal in Dublin) to sell a few of the CD's.

You mention production... not sure of the place, there's a place in Ireland that will mass produce CD's (including cover & art) for you. Forget the cost, but it was roughly €1.50 a CD I think (including cover & art).

One thing I notice you don't mention is copyrighting your stuff. Not really sure how you do it, but you should look down those lines.

One thing I've seen on a few (trad music) sites, is clips of 30 or 40 seconds of the music, to let you get a "feel" of the music. May be something worth considering.

Finally, try to get someone camcorde yourself playing your music, either in a studio/house next to a window, or outside (and then mix the audio onto the visual, so you get crisp sound, and no wind) and put it on youtube. Your setting depends on your music, and of course your market (eg: christain music usually has a church or something in the background, or maybe that big cross thing in the Phoenix Park, on a sunny day, etc).

sei046 · 08-05-2008 8:25pm

I get my duplication done by a few lads and they are all around the 1.50 mark and very very fast

frobisher · 08-05-2008 8:29pm

fitz wrote: »

I have a very similar plan in mind. Best of luck to you dude. I'll be following your progress with interest!

Hi Tony. Not sure I'll be giving a blow by blow account to be honest! Too much blood to share in public.

I just thought I'd throw down the gauntlet as I see it. Would love to hear what you have planned yourself. Share and share I like is the idea.

the_syco: Would love to hear about that CD duplication company. As for copyright, I didn't mention it as it's just some basic directional ideas. I take copyrighting my stuff seriously. I'd advice others to take a similar approach.

af_thefragile · 08-05-2008 8:49pm

I'm currently working on a solo project myself too and i plan to release it independently too.

Basically what i'm planning to do is to get a single/EP completed first towards the end of summer. It'll only contain about 2 songs and a couple of remixes. I'll set up the myspace for the band, put those songs up there for listen and download. Make copies of the EP and start doing gigs. I'll give away those EP's for free after the gig for promotion n all... I doubt anyone would mind a free music cd!

Then i'll continue working on the rest of the album. Get it completed and masted in a proper studio. Plan to have it done towards the end of this year. This will be the real thing. A proper full length album. I won't put this up for free download. I'll look at releasing this under an independent label. Which i'm currently not sure how i'm gonna go about doing that!

Maybe i could learn something off you!!!

Trent Reznor from NIN is trying to revolutionize the whole music industry.
He released a new album a couple of days ago for free download on the internet. Basically giving the whole album for free at studio quality. Just google the Slip and you can download it off NIN's website for free...
So its good to keep an eye on what Trent's moves are gonna be cuz he's trying the whole new aspect of releasing his music independently too.

fitz · 08-05-2008 8:53pm

frobisher wrote: »

Hi Tony. Not sure I'll be giving a blow by blow account to be honest! Too much blood to share in public. I just thought I'd throw down the gauntlet as I see it. Would love to hear what you have planned yourself. Share and share I like is the idea.

I wouldn't have expected a blow by blow tbh!
But would be interested to hear what works well, what doesn't.
I'm planning on the digital distribution route initially.
Considering a free release also. Put some publicity behind it, see what happens.

If you haven't already, you should read up on what Trent Reznor has been doing. Food for thought.

frobisher · 08-05-2008 9:06pm

I've been following Trent alright. And of course Radiohead. And people like Ry Cooder who apparently makes an absolute packet through direct sales.

I've been staying up on the various movements. I've been quite fascinated by where it might be heading waiting for a moment of inspiration or a fissure to show in the cliff face to get a hold in. It kinda hasn't happened. I don't think there will be a single new way, instead there will be hundreds of new and old ways. Whatever business model you can construct for you that works is what you should do. My way requires relatively little investment, no more than a few €000's intially and is based upon only making a new album when the last one has raised enough cash to pay for the next one, ideally that will be quicker than a year but if it's not then fine, it'll be longer. And if they don't sell enough to sell for the next one to be made? Well that means one of two things, either people don't like your music and don't want to but it or you're not working hard enough at selling it. Either one means you need a career change++.

af_thefragile · 08-05-2008 9:18pm

MY outlook on this is to release the albums to get your music out there and focus on gigs to make your living...!
Though album sales should help too. But i'ld rather sell my album independently for 3eur a piece than let some record label exploit my talent and bind me to some dodgy contract.

fitz · 08-05-2008 9:28pm

Hell, give it away free and look to publishing to make money.
The whole business model is changing so much. If you can fund it yourself to a decent standard that's half the battle.

af_thefragile · 08-05-2008 9:43pm

Yeah, i guess being music producers and having a home studio setups of our own, with the knowledge, we should be able to manage the production outselves. Maybe just hire out a studio for a couple of days to get the album mastered which shouldn't cost too much. So funding the album shouldn't really be a problem. The biggest thing here is promoting the album and getting it out there in the music stores.

Trent Reznor made the whole Year Zero album on his laptop in a month. So it certainly doesn't take much to produce a decent standard album!

frobisher · 08-05-2008 10:15pm

I know what you guys are saying about cheap or free CD's to fans but I'm going to disagree on that one. It may seem like a good idea in todays climate of torrents, Limewire and free albums but the reality is that as a small label and artists you have to be relentless and aggressive about getting the most out of every possible angle. If you make €7 gross profit from every €10 CD you sell you are making far more than you would have through a standard deal and the customer is getting a full album at a decent price. If you give it free you're losing money, closing down a revenue stream and devaluing your music should you try and sell it further down the line to the same people you gave it to free last time. I'm not saying there isn't a place for freebies but you have to be clever about it. How about tee shirts for €10, CD's for €10 but if you buy one you get the other free? I know a guy who had 3 different EPs of 5 songs each that he then put on the same album. People felt they were getting greater value by spending €20 on the 3 EPs than €12 on the album even though it had all the same music. He plays cover gigs and adds an extra €200 to €300 a week to his take home form them. That's a nice €1k a month to spend on your favorite publicist for 6 months. I'd say give very little away for free but give as many extras as you can afford to get people's interest.

tweeky · 09-05-2008 12:56am

Frobisher is talking sense, Put a value on your work and fix a fair price.
Who ever plays the free CD's in the sunday papers? i don't.

Radiohead etc. are all very very wealthy guys and basically you could not buy the amount of publicity that the "free release / honesty donation" created.
At the average donation of £2.45 or whatever that they received they probably
got more than their normal royalty rate and didn't have to manufacture CD's (apart from the delux edition which was not free), pay for marketing (usually £1 to £2 per unit sold) so they were the winners all round. Then they released the standard full price edition and did well out of that too.

The only problem i see at the moment is that there is too much stuff being released with no A&R or quality control. Release quality not quantity, aim your product at the right market, use Myspace, facebook, bebo, blogs, stand on the top of grafton st in your jocks whatever, work it!
I will not buy your record if i don't know it exists.

fitz · 09-05-2008 8:53am

I think Fro hit the nail on the head. If you're gonna give something away free, it's gotta be for a reason, and it's got to lead to revenue. A free single download with 2 b-sides to build some awareness before releasing an album you charge for...

There are any number of ways to go about it now, it's the promotion/marketing and duplication for a physical release that are still the up front expensive aspects of releasing something.

PaulBrewer · 09-05-2008 9:35am

fitz wrote: »

I think Fro hit the nail on the head. If you're gonna give something away free, it's gotta be for a reason, and it's got to lead to revenue. A free single download with 2 b-sides to build some awareness before releasing an album you charge for...

There are any number of ways to go about it now, it's the promotion/marketing and duplication for a physical release that are still the up front expensive aspects of releasing something.

Marketing is an interesting one.... ultimately it's a chicken and egg scenario,
you won't get TV (as a rule) unless you're known..... yet you may not get known til you're on TV!

I know bands who spent the price of a nice secondhand car on marketing and got nothing, I could see, for that. They'd have been better spending that same money on some production for their live show.

I remember going to a Dublin radio station with a band once and meeting the 'Marketing' lady ..... Myspace and Bebo weren't part of her 'strategy' .... unbelievable, in this day and age!

judas101 · 09-05-2008 10:34am

this is a good thread.

some good advice here.

af_thefragile · 09-05-2008 11:21am

Quality is much important than quantity, i do agree on that.
Seeing the amount of myspace and bebo bands popping up that sound absolutely awful. Your music has to have the edge over the other unsigned bands to stand out and be recognised.

And yeah i do agree giving a whole album away for free is not good publicity both economically an for your music. Trent Reznor said giving away an album for free download would work fine for big bands like NIN and Radiohead cuz everyone knows them and will download their album knowing it will be good stuff. But it wouldn't work as well for Saul Williams who's album Trent initially released for free too cuz he's no NIN or Radiohead. And this is the main problem with giving your album away for free. It will work great for all the big bands out there but its not gonna work at all for a small underground band.

Its much better to spend a good amount of money on getting the album masterd in a good studio then wasting it away on bad promotion.

My plans are to make a single/EP with just a couple of songs produced at home to give it away for free (all it is gonna cost is the cost of the CD). But you've gotta really work to give it away n make sure people listen to it instead of binning it. Do gigs, give it away after gigs so people know what your music sounds like and they can share it with their friends, stand on top of grafton st and busk there and give it away for free there, do gigs in every possible place you can think of doing gigs to give away the CD for free. Like organise a little performance in Tower Records and give away more free CD's there.

The aim of the CD should be to make your music known amoung people. It doesn't need artwork or anything. Probably just the web adress to your myspace on the CD should be enough. It'll make people check out your myspace and find out more about you and your music. Could be good for giving away to promoters and venue managers too... Its a free CD, it can't really be exploited!

Then after a while you've seen your popularity go up, a good few regular gigs, people start to recognise you and you've created some local following, you can release the proper album with full artwork and all. Not gonna give that away for free as you've really worked your ass off for that and even spent good loads of money n time producing it and getting it mastered. You could throw a few songs from it on the myspace for a listen but no download. Then work on getting that CD in stores and sell this one after gigs. Maybe 10eur would be a reasonable price.

trackmixstudio · 09-05-2008 11:55am

I have toyed with the idea of starting a label many times.
tunecore.com is VERY handy if you are thinking about doing this.
They will upload your music to itunes etc. You pay a small nominal fee then get ALL the money from downloads. Read the info on their site.
A band I recently recorded are releasing a new EP next month and they have an amazing idea. Instead of a cd, they are releasing it on a USB memory stick. On the stick they have the 5 songs, artwork, a video, PDF bio and URLs to myspace, the band's website etc.
I think it is costing them about €4 per stick including blister pack and artwork. The sticks they are getting come blister packed and they are getting artwork done to replace the manufacturer's logo on the packaging.
They plan to sell them at €10 and I think that is a great package for the price. Whoever buys it could even transfer the EP etc to their computer and reuse the stick.
As regards Trent, Radiohead etc.They can afford to give away their music and make money touring so their business model is totally non applicable to a new/unknown artist. I think Prince has been the most innovative so far. He got £250,000 from the Mail on Sunday to give his CD away free. That equates to over a million sales based on a standard 18-20% record deal. He also got fantastic free advertising for his Wembley gigs which equated to more money for him due to less advertising costs for the promoters. Music and Business genius!

sei046 · 09-05-2008 12:13pm

great post track, Brilliant ideas

trackmixstudio · 09-05-2008 12:44pm

To thefragile (NIN fan?)
The best thing I ever did re myspace was to put up a flash player in place of the regular myspace player. My page now plays 192kbs mp3s which is not far off cd quality. As a recording studio this is VERY important for me. If anyone is hopping around myspace and then goes to my page the sound jumps out!
Check myspace.com/trackmixstudio to see what I mean.

judas101 · 09-05-2008 12:57pm

Yeah i've always wondered how to do that re the music player in myspace.

defo something i'm going to do when i've got recordings of very high quality.

Releasing your own music on your own label.

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