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29-05-2020, 10:11   #1
Macu17ab
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Returning British land holdings in Ireland to the state

Hi folks,

As many of you may be aware, there are still a lot of large land-holdings belonging to British aristocrats which have held this lands in Irelands for hundreds of years to date. These include estates like Slane Castle, and Powerscourt Gardens. During the formation of our Free State Government, the “Land Act” was implemented and offered these British land lords to purchase the land.

Considering Ireland’s independent economy at this time was virtually non-existent, and improving relations with the British elite was in our best interest - the purchases of the land act were surely offered from a position of extreme disadvantage on the Irish state’s behalf.

Should the Irish state offer/enforce, today, a compensation to these modern-day aristocrats, where the land is reclaimed for the Irish state? The money gained from these sites like entry fees for tours, gigs, events etc could be used towards Irish culture projects and the establishment of modern gaeltachts where our language could be given a chance to thrive in future generations.

Just a thought. You can see an article below from 2016 which can give you an idea of the current “Anglo-Irish” land holdings in Ireland today:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ind...-35074914.html
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29-05-2020, 12:14   #2
Del.Monte
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Why should these private landowners be forced to give up their property anymore than any other private property owner? Another thread better suited to AH.
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29-05-2020, 12:17   #3
Allinall
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I own property in the UK.

Should they be allowed take it off me?
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29-05-2020, 12:30   #4
CrabRevolution
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They legally own the property, no matter how it was obtained centuries ago. The only way to obtain it would be via CPO which would be easily fought unless the government showed that it planned to build a motorway through every single property and had no other choice but to CPO.

A government looking up someone's family tree and deciding they aren't entitled to hold on to their property based on their distant ancestry would fail just about every human rights test going and be run out of court. The article you linked even mentions one family owning some land for 800 years....

It's also good practice to ask yourself "Will this make us resemble Zimbabwe" before doing....well anything to be honest. If the answer is yes, you don't do it.
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29-05-2020, 13:36   #5
Macu17ab
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@CrabRevolution - The Zimbabwe question gave me a chuckle, I'll keep that one in mind in the future. As for the previous two replies, the means in which the land was aquired in the Irish case is drastically different to how any Irish person may have obtained land in the UK. So you could try looking at it from a national interest perspective as oppossed to a private ownership persepctive. I'm all for having the current owners compensated, and I don't consider this to be a normal or easy concept to navigate. It is an outlandish idea, but I believe it is one that could be fleshed out more. Quite frankly, I'm sure a lot of Irish people would agree that if we took the land back ten times over, it would not be reparation enough for the wealth the UK siphoned from Ireland and the damage done to our unique Gaelic culture.
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29-05-2020, 13:42   #6
Notmything
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After we take the land back from the British who is next?
My Polish neighbours have a grand house. They bought it at a distressed properties auction, taking houses off Irish people.

But, regarding the topic at hand, is there evidence to say said properties are being abused/neglected by their owners? that they would be better off in state ownership and state ownership is not always the best outcome.
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29-05-2020, 13:52   #7
Macu17ab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notmything View Post
After we take the land back from the British who is next?
My Polish neighbours have a grand house. They bought it at a distressed properties auction, taking houses off Irish people.

But, regarding the topic at hand, is there evidence to say said properties are being abused/neglected by their owners? that they would be better off in state ownership and state ownership is not always the best outcome.

That would not have even appeared on my radar - I am only really thinking about lands that would have been taken during the occupation, and held on to as a result of the Land Act where we weren't in a strong position to barterfor them. We owe our independance to some extraordinary people who walked this Earth barely 100 years ago, who, I would think, would not have envisaged allowing the Nobility who oppressed Ireland's freedom to retain their estates at a relatively meagre cost. I'm not trying to tickle anyone's patriotic heartstrings here, but in my eyes if the same people are occupying the British symbols of wealth and racial superiority to date - was Ireland ever really recalimed? (excluding the NI question).
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29-05-2020, 14:55   #8
pgj2015
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How far back do you go though? My Neighbours have a Norman surname and have a big farm, should their land be taken from them as well?
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29-05-2020, 15:02   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Macu17ab View Post
It is an outlandish idea
Correct.
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29-05-2020, 15:15   #10
Notmything
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macu17ab View Post
That would not have even appeared on my radar - I am only really thinking about lands that would have been taken during the occupation, and held on to as a result of the Land Act where we weren't in a strong position to barterfor them. We owe our independance to some extraordinary people who walked this Earth barely 100 years ago, who, I would think, would not have envisaged allowing the Nobility who oppressed Ireland's freedom to retain their estates at a relatively meagre cost. I'm not trying to tickle anyone's patriotic heartstrings here, but in my eyes if the same people are occupying the British symbols of wealth and racial superiority to date - was Ireland ever really recalimed? (excluding the NI question).
So you want to reclaim the lands taken by the English. Would that be enough? The system of counties is an English system composed on us 800 years ago or so. How can we truly reclaim our country if we continue to use an English county system?
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29-05-2020, 15:27   #11
two wheels good
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As an aside:
I suggest it's best to resolve links before posting. To help reader's avoid Google's tracking and profiling algorithms. Thanks.
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29-05-2020, 18:15   #12
Del.Monte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notmything View Post
So you want to reclaim the lands taken by the English. Would that be enough? The system of counties is an English system composed on us 800 years ago or so. How can we truly reclaim our country if we continue to use an English county system?

Counties were a Norman thing not English. I think the British and Irish governments should look to the French for war reparations due to the their invasions of our two countries in 1066 and 1170 respectively.
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29-05-2020, 19:12   #13
Notmything
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Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
Counties were a Norman thing not English. I think the British and Irish governments should look to the French for war reparations due to the their invasions of our two countries in 1066 and 1170 respectively.
These guys say Anglo-Norman but I'm slightly ashamed to say it's an area of Irish history I know very little about so I'll happily accept your correction.
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30-05-2020, 02:34   #14
Ipso
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I’m going to take back what the bell beakers took.
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31-05-2020, 12:22   #15
pinkypinky
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I can't believe this is a legitimate question.

Many of the people mentioned in that old article are Irish citizens. So what if several hundred years ago they had English ancestors.

Garech Browne couldn't have been more Irish - founding Claddagh Records...big promoter of the Chieftains.

The State doesn't have the money to buy these old houses and maintain them either.
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