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08-05-2021, 14:19   #1771
sparky42
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That's what happens when you use bing instead of Google when researching military purchases
Do you think DOD have moved out of dial up yet?
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08-05-2021, 17:33   #1772
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What I’ve never understood is that we have multiple neighbours who we could leverage off and yet we still end up we our odd jobs...
Eithne was designed around the Lynx, the UK flew Lynx, the Belgians and Dutch (who advised us on the building of Eithne) were also Lynx operators at sea. France had only started deck trials with Dauphin months before our Dauphin was ordered.
Seems the DoD are the kind of folk who think the salesman is actually your friend, and everything in the brochure is true.
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08-05-2021, 17:46   #1773
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Eithne was designed around the Lynx, the UK flew Lynx, the Belgians and Dutch (who advised us on the building of Eithne) were also Lynx operators at sea. France had only started deck trials with Dauphin months before our Dauphin was ordered.
Seems the DoD are the kind of folk who think the salesman is actually your friend, and everything in the brochure is true.
True enough, and they don’t seem to learn much from it each time...
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08-05-2021, 19:12   #1774
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The last 4 ships built for the NS are designed for, but not with Air search radar. In the Past L.E Eithne used her Singnaal DA 05 radar (Same as used on Giraffe)to great effect during the visit of Clinton & Bush, parking itself in the Shannon Estuary and if nothing else, giving those on the ground a picture of what was flying without having to rely on ATC.
Modern Solid state or 4D surveillance radars could provide a much better picture, and take up less space too. All the plumbing is there for them, they just need to plug & play. Something like the Thales NS50 for example.
using the few ships we have as radar pickets would be a waste of resources. Plus we would need 3 of them permanently stationed off the west coast to cover our western seaboard.
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08-05-2021, 20:44   #1775
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The PC-9 was 30km from the base and at a suitable height to glide home and it was a lucky, well handled event. If it had been 50 km from home, we'd be looking at a smoking hole and Martin-baker ties for the pilots. PC-9s are good but they are not magic. As for twin engined fighters, they tend to have their engines inspected and serviced by parallel teams of engineers, to prevent servicing errors, copying the ETOPs practise of the airlines and they also have the benefit of titanium firewalls and bulkheads between the engines so the chances of one engine killing the other are rare,much rarer than the perennial birdstrikes that routinely bring down aircraft. While I have a great deal of faith in jet engines, I tend to have greater faith in two,especially if I, as a hypothetical pilot, was tasked to nip up to Rockall to have a look around or go and liaise with a naval vessel somewhere in our EEZ. Which ties in neatly with the elephant-in-the-room SAR question....if we, the people, suddenly got ourselves some fighter jets, would be be able to also have the SAR resources go support them in the event of one of them going down at sea? .......historical note: I recall at least two events when our Fouga pilots were mighty glad to have a second engine to get them home after suffering engine failures, one to a bird and one to a mechanical failure. One happened over the airfield and the other some distance away.
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08-05-2021, 21:42   #1776
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The PC-9 was 30km from the base and at a suitable height to glide home and it was a lucky, well handled event. If it had been 50 km from home, we'd be looking at a smoking hole and Martin-baker ties for the pilots. PC-9s are good but they are not magic. As for twin engined fighters, they tend to have their engines inspected and serviced by parallel teams of engineers, to prevent servicing errors, copying the ETOPs practise of the airlines and they also have the benefit of titanium firewalls and bulkheads between the engines so the chances of one engine killing the other are rare,much rarer than the perennial birdstrikes that routinely bring down aircraft. While I have a great deal of faith in jet engines, I tend to have greater faith in two,especially if I, as a hypothetical pilot, was tasked to nip up to Rockall to have a look around or go and liaise with a naval vessel somewhere in our EEZ. Which ties in neatly with the elephant-in-the-room SAR question....if we, the people, suddenly got ourselves some fighter jets, would be be able to also have the SAR resources go support them in the event of one of them going down at sea? .......historical note: I recall at least two events when our Fouga pilots were mighty glad to have a second engine to get them home after suffering engine failures, one to a bird and one to a mechanical failure. One happened over the airfield and the other some distance away.
Any journey down the fast jet interceptor route comes with mandatory dedicated SAR. Not civvy SAR or SAR doing the civvy contract while also doing the Air Corps standby.
Dedicated. The newest member of the Martin Baker club floating in his dinghy made for one near rockall can't be waiting for the Coastguard SAR to divert from its training spin to the Cliffs of Moher, or the Dublin heli to spin up because the Sligo bird is doing a Medevac while the Shannon bird is Doing another tasking.
The Air Corps have put a lot of time and effort into a SERE course recently. Surely proper Military SAR Heli is the logical next step.

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using the few ships we have as radar pickets would be a waste of resources. Plus we would need 3 of them permanently stationed off the west coast to cover our western seaboard.
It would of course. Mobile radar is no substitute for a fixed system, but at present apart from a few Early gen Giraffe's the Defence Forces has no experience in the operation of air search radar.
My response was to banie01 when they said:
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We have an enormous and quite strategic EEZ, maritime patrol both aerial and naval should be a priority.
Improve the radars and the actual armament of the current fleet and if possible provide at least a modicum of air self-defence capability.
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08-05-2021, 21:48   #1777
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The Irish have a tendency to buy big ticket items as a 1st operator.
The AW139s for example. Not actually fit for our use, and a brochure buy as the 1st military customer rather than meeting a defined tender spec.



What else have we had as being the "Launch Customer"? Interested to know.
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08-05-2021, 21:52   #1778
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What else have we had as being the "Launch Customer"? Interested to know.
The Daulphin's for the Air Corps, think the CASA's might have been similar (though I'm open to be corrected there), the RG 32M for the Army.
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08-05-2021, 21:57   #1779
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What else have we had as being the "Launch Customer"? Interested to know.
Dauphin. Someone should write a book on how wrong that went, from something that started very promising.

Army LTAV (RG-32). After just 10 years in service, a board to decide their replacement has just been formed.

We were the first with the Casa CN235MPA but thankfully that worked out really well for us.

Timoney Armoured Vehicles. (Mk IV and VI) We Got the first production versions, but never got enough to test them properly operationally, they never went overseas, and they made great Anti Tank targets when it came time to bin them. The Designer started out with a Panhard M3 interior, and said "How can I just barely improve on this, but not much"
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09-05-2021, 10:57   #1780
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The Casas were a problem child at the beginning but thankfully have matured. The RG 32ms were a modification of a previously proven design but are trying to be too much of a good thing in one package and are a maintenance nightmare. Serviceability and availability are very poor. The Timoney was well-meaning but flawed and those who have used it regarded it as a decent improvement on the M3, which was wasn't hard to achieve. Ironically, the vehicle sold well globally under license and is still in service,especially as the Behrmann BDX. Timoney's greatest contribution was and is drivetrains. Anyone who writes a book about the Dauphins should wait until the participants are safely dead,as some of the movers and shakers of that debacle are still alive and able to summon lawyers.
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09-05-2021, 14:54   #1781
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Do you think DOD have moved out of dial up yet?
You can be sure they look after themselves did you jot see there Newbridge office
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09-05-2021, 21:48   #1782
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I see on Twitter earlier on, Leonardo expect the first 6 of 24 M346FA to be delivered to Nigeria in the next quarter of 2021. Not bad going for an aircraft that was only ordered in March.
https://twitter.com/CiroNappi6/statu...87448240590853


Would it be the worst thing in the world for Ireland? €1.2bn (including weapons) gets you back in the jet game with some sort of aggressive and defensive capability, with Mach 1 speeds, when pushed.
That's $50m Each, where you are looking at roughly $150m for a Gripen E/F or €130m for an F16V by todays prices.

Is nothing better than all?
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10-05-2021, 03:01   #1783
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Is it a legitimate Interceptor solution? No.

Do we have any practical applications for its other capabilities? No.

See where this is going?
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10-05-2021, 08:18   #1784
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Is it a legitimate Interceptor solution? No.

Do we have any practical applications for its other capabilities? No.

See where this is going?
Not really.

Why is it not legitimate interceptor.

It's a light attack/trainer like all the other aircraft we've used for decades.
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10-05-2021, 08:37   #1785
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That t50 Korean looked much better Mack 1.5 I think
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle
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