Tenant pocketed rent allowance

Gooseygoo · 24-01-2020 10:36pm #1

I’ve gone through hell with my tenant of 4 years. She’s just been served her notice of eviction due to nonpayment of rent, I’m not confident she’ll vacate. I’m currently owed 5000e.As she is on rent allowance, I emailed social welfare in case she had been pocketing the rent allowance. They couldn’t help me due to GDPR.... though a momentary silence on the phone as such confirms she has pocketed it. Any suggestions how I could get proof of this? I expect she will over hold and it will end up in RTB tribunal (again). It would give me great satisfaction for her not to have a leg to stand on this time. She’s been living it up while I’m struggling to pay my own rent as well as the mortgage on the rental property.

Saudades · 24-01-2020 10:42pm

I don't believe it's possible for a tenant to pocket rent allowance. It's paid from the local authority's bank account directly to the landlord's bank account. And any attempt to change the bank account details would have required your signature.

godtabh · 24-01-2020 10:45pm

How have you let get to €5000

Clonmel1000 · 24-01-2020 10:48pm

Saudades wrote: »

I don't believe it's possible for a tenant to pocket rent allowance. It's paid from the local authority's bank account directly to the landlord's bank account. And any attempt to change the bank account details would have required your signature.

Your mixing rent allowance and HAP up. Rent Allowance is often paid to the tenant directly.

Del2005 · 24-01-2020 10:50pm

Saudades wrote: »

I don't believe it's possible for a tenant to pocket rent allowance. It's paid from the local authority's bank account directly to the landlord's bank account. And any attempt to change the bank account details would have required your signature.

That's HAP you are thinking of. Rent allowance is paid to the tenant and its because of what happened the OP that HAP pays the landlord, not that it makes much difference as the landlord gets shafted either way if the tenant doesn't pay.

OP you don't need to prove that the tenant pocketed the rent allowance. Just proceed with the eviction on the non payment and leave the potential social welfare fraud to the social welfare people.

Saudades · 24-01-2020 10:55pm

Yes my apologies, I was speaking of HAP.

Gumbo · 24-01-2020 11:18pm

Gooseygoo wrote: »

I’ve gone through hell with my tenant of 4 years. She’s just been served her notice of eviction due to nonpayment of rent, I’m not confident she’ll vacate. I’m currently owed 5000e.As she is on rent allowance, I emailed social welfare in case she had been pocketing the rent allowance. They couldn’t help me due to GDPR.... though a momentary silence on the phone as such confirms she has pocketed it. Any suggestions how I could get proof of this? I expect she will over hold and it will end up in RTB tribunal (again). It would give me great satisfaction for her not to have a leg to stand on this time. She’s been living it up while I’m struggling to pay my own rent as well as the mortgage on the rental property.

It’s not up to you to prove she pocketed the rent allowance.
It’s up to you to secure an eviction ASAP due to non payment of rent.

That’s it.

Gooseygoo · 24-01-2020 11:49pm

godtabh wrote: »

How have you let get to €5000

I know...she swore it was down to her not filling in forms for the first couple of months but swore it would be backdated...then she took off to uk for 5 weeks and claimed she was cut off completely for being out of the country for so long. I got a solicitor this time to issue relevant notices and will bring him to tribunal if/when it comes to that. Last time round all she had to do was deny everything and she didn’t have to vacate...just slowly repay arrears, felt rtb let me down ...and here I am again. At point of nervous breakdown . I get your point though, whether she pocketed it or not, she’s in arrears . Will I ever see a penny of it?

splinter65 · 25-01-2020 12:04am

Saudades wrote: »

I don't believe it's possible for a tenant to pocket rent allowance. It's paid from the local authority's bank account directly to the landlord's bank account. And any attempt to change the bank account details would have required your signature.

That’s HAP. Rent Supplement is paid weekly to the tenant.

Del2005 · 25-01-2020 3:51am

Gooseygoo wrote: »

I know...she swore it was down to her not filling in forms for the first couple of months but swore it would be backdated...then she took off to uk for 5 weeks and claimed she was cut off completely for being out of the country for so long. I got a solicitor this time to issue relevant notices and will bring him to tribunal if/when it comes to that. Last time round all she had to do was deny everything and she didn’t have to vacate...just slowly repay arrears, felt rtb let me down ...and here I am again. At point of nervous breakdown . I get your point though, whether she pocketed it or not, she’s in arrears . Will I ever see a penny of it?

Not a penny of the arrears and not a penny between now and when she's eventually evicted. If she destroys your property before moving out you'll not get anything for that either and she'll walk into another landlords life getting HAP

handlemaster · 25-01-2020 9:17am

Saudades wrote: »

I don't believe it's possible for a tenant to pocket rent allowance. It's paid from the local authority's bank account directly to the landlord's bank account. And any attempt to change the bank account details would have required your signature.

Incorrect tenant can request that but the dirty tenants know this is under their control and can have it paid directly to them.

Pawwed Rig · 25-01-2020 9:22am

Del2005 wrote: »

Not a penny of the arrears and not a penny between now and when she's eventually evicted. If she destroys your property before moving out you'll not get anything for that either and she'll walk into another landlords life getting HAP

Unfortunately this is what will happen. I have just finished a similar process (which took the guts of 10 years) which concluded with a sheriff visit to confiscate goods turning up no assets. So I get nothing and have to suck up the €5k loss plus legal costs.

All you can do is focus on getting them out asap and treat it as a lesson learned.

handlemaster · 25-01-2020 9:23am

Gooseygoo wrote: »

I know...she swore it was down to her not filling in forms for the first couple of months but swore it would be backdated...then she took off to uk for 5 weeks and claimed she was cut off completely for being out of the country for so long. I got a solicitor this time to issue relevant notices and will bring him to tribunal if/when it comes to that. Last time round all she had to do was deny everything and she didn’t have to vacate...just slowly repay arrears, felt rtb let me down ...and here I am again. At point of nervous breakdown . I get your point though, whether she pocketed it or not, she’s in arrears . Will I ever see a penny of it?

If a tenant starts messing with non payment of rent the lies flow easily. Landlords need to wise up take non of it , follow the law and get them evicted. The welfare do not care and will not help you. The money you have lost is gone and there will be alot more lost I'm afraid. I can tell you the bill for repairs will be coming also. The stress will be high but keep your head high you will be the better for it. But get the ball rolling, dont listen to any BS. Look on facebook I'm sure she is having a great life at your expense.

Irish_peppa · 25-01-2020 9:37am

OP, if its any consolation I got done this way too

Person that lodged in my house, my first lodger actually lost his job and I mentioned the government scheme. All forms filled out weeks turned into 2 months. All excuses he would tell me

Social welfare awful shower
Awful delays with them
Very frustrating im onto them every day

I got suspicious and made enquiries, This was way before GDPR. I was told in a round about way he had obviously pocketed the money by the officer who dealth with him (she seemed to know him quite well strange enough). I ran him that night as he was a lodger. He continued to say the social welfare office was lieing even going out the door. My god 5K . Im sorry for your troubles OP hope it works out. An expensive learning experience.

One thing I thought was odd thou the Social Welfare officer didnt seem that surprised or concerned she just said she would speak to him. And as for getting any money not a chance. Once he spent it its gone. I wonder did he even have to pay it back in the end probably not.

Yellow_Fern · 25-01-2020 9:43am

Gooseygoo wrote: »

I’ve gone through hell with my tenant of 4 years. She’s just been served her notice of eviction due to nonpayment of rent, I’m not confident she’ll vacate. I’m currently owed 5000e.As she is on rent allowance, I emailed social welfare in case she had been pocketing the rent allowance. They couldn’t help me due to GDPR.... though a momentary silence on the phone as such confirms she has pocketed it. Any suggestions how I could get proof of this? I expect she will over hold and it will end up in RTB tribunal (again). It would give me great satisfaction for her not to have a leg to stand on this time. She’s been living it up while I’m struggling to pay my own rent as well as the mortgage on the rental property.

Seems like GDPR is the new health and safety excuse. When ever some is too lazy to do their job they can just cite GDPR

handlemaster · 25-01-2020 10:10am

Irish_peppa wrote: »

OP, if its any consolation I got done this way too Person that lodged in my house, my first lodger actually lost his job and I mentioned the government scheme. All forms filled out weeks turned into 2 months. All excuses he would tell me

Social welfare awful shower
Awful delays with them
Very frustrating im onto them every day

I got suspicious and made enquiries, This was way before GDPR. I was told in a round about way he had obviously pocketed the money by the officer who dealth with him (she seemed to know him quite well strange enough). I ran him that night as he was a lodger. He continued to say the social welfare office was lieing even going out the door. My god 5K . Im sorry for your troubles OP hope it works out. An expensive learning experience.

One thing I thought was odd thou the Social Welfare officer didnt seem that surprised or concerned she just said she would speak to him. And as for getting any money not a chance. Once he spent it its gone. I wonder did he even have to pay it back in the end probably not.

Had similar myself. The comment was"id say she's a smart one alright " i.e. she is indeed up to all tricks

25-01-2020 10:22am

handlemaster wrote: »

Landlords need to wise up take non of it , follow the law and get them evicted.

The problem is the law seems to overly favour non paying tenants....can take an awful long time to get them evicted

Gooseygoo · 25-01-2020 11:56am

handlemaster wrote: »

Incorrect tenant can request that but the dirty tenants know this is under their control and can have it paid directly to them.

Yes, she knew exactly what she was doing...and the right excuses to make. BY the way, she denied receiving any notices last time round at the tribunal...I didn’t register post them . I can’t serve them to her as she has a history of violence and I’m afraid. I’ve registered posted this time so hopefully with tracking I can prove receipt. I have a feeling no matter what, there’ll be no moving her.

iwillhtfu · 25-01-2020 12:10pm

I think the majority of landlords have at some point had to deal with non payment, I had similar myself and being the soft touch I let it run a bit but thankfully they moved on after a few months of non payment. I think over the year she had several grandparents die when I eventually got back in the amount of prescription drugs in the house i was convinced she was a pharmacist with a problem.

As for the rent allowance the council will do sweet fa and the tenant will cry poor me I want my council house why do I have to wait for it. It's the usually circle of life in a welfare system that is completely useless and in need of overhauling and border line shutting down.

One thing I took on board though is that if the rent is a day late without genuine reason I send papers asap, putting it on the long finger only makes a fool out of you.

handlemaster · 25-01-2020 12:19pm

aaronc182 wrote: »

The problem is the law seems to overly favour non paying tenants....can take an awful long time to get them evicted

Yes this is a hugh issue

handlemaster · 25-01-2020 12:22pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I think the majority of landlords have at some point had to deal with non payment, I had similar myself and being the soft touch I let it run a bit but thankfully they moved on after a few months of non payment. I think over the year she had several grandparents die when I eventually got back in the amount of prescription drugs in the house i was convinced she was a pharmacist with a problem.

As for the rent allowance the council will do sweet fa and the tenant will cry poor me I want my council house why do I have to wait for it. It's the usually circle of life in a welfare system that is completely useless and in need of overhauling and border line shutting down.

One thing I took on board though is that if the rent is a day late without genuine reason I send papers asap, putting it on the long finger only makes a fool out of you.

That's the way to do it. Lots of non landlords on here talking about the business of landlords without a any clue of what it's really like.

beauf · 25-01-2020 12:26pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Seems like GDPR is the new health and safety excuse. When ever some is too lazy to do their job they can just cite GDPR

This problem existed long before GDPR. The LL is a third party and they won't disclose any information regardless.

beauf · 25-01-2020 12:29pm

aaronc182 wrote: »

The problem is the law seems to overly favour non paying tenants....can take an awful long time to get them evicted

His point was even if the tenant was mother Theresa. As soon as rent is late start proceedings. Never delay.

Because of how system is set up, you have no choice but to act immediately.

beauf · 25-01-2020 12:31pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Not a penny of the arrears and not a penny between now and when she's eventually evicted. If she destroys your property before moving out you'll not get anything for that either and she'll walk into another landlords life getting HAP

Exactly this. The tenant has probably being doing it for years. The system allows has no safe guards to prevent it.

Pawwed Rig · 25-01-2020 2:34pm

handlemaster wrote: »

We are not talking impossible here. 5k in Dublin is just a few months. Unfortunately if you have never let a property to someone you wouldn't understand.

Happens aswell to landlords who try to hang in chasing their losses. Tenants promises often turn to dust where money is concerned

JustAThought · 25-01-2020 2:46pm

very sorry to hear this OP - nightmare scenario. Ive had some shocking cases of absolute self entitlement where paying rent is concerned and have managed to only sort it out because the working middle class people I rented to had jobs and I called their bosses and HR departments and told them how dishonest they were and did they know they were employing someone with no basic morals or values. Worked wonders for me. As for the scumbags that take and refuse to pay first port of call is SW and registered letter of complaint - they can stop them getting more payments based on the tenants fraud so at least you know they cant continue to profit. I’d like to see a start to this kind of case being highlighted by the bleeding hearts in the media industry - too many people being stolen from and freeloaders refusing to pay for the service - accommodation - they have received. Of course after your case is wom you might be able to take a case against them for the money or put a lean on their car or assets - again - more money down the train. But facebook and LinkedIn can follow people for years . Very sorry for your situation. This is why people take matters out of the courts and deal with them themselves.

Gooseygoo · 25-01-2020 9:50pm

JustAThought wrote: »

very sorry to hear this OP - nightmare scenario. Ive had some shocking cases of absolute self entitlement where paying rent is concerned and have managed to only sort it out because the working middle class people I rented to had jobs and I called their bosses and HR departments and told them how dishonest they were and did they know they were employing someone with no basic morals or values. Worked wonders for me. As for the scumbags that take and refuse to pay first port of call is SW and registered letter of complaint - they can stop them getting more payments based on the tenants fraud so at least you know they cant continue to profit. I’d like to see a start to this kind of case being highlighted by the bleeding hearts in the media industry - too many people being stolen from and freeloaders refusing to pay for the service - accommodation - they have received. Of course after your case is wom you might be able to take a case against them for the money or put a lean on their car or assets - again - more money down the train. But facebook and LinkedIn can follow people for years . Very sorry for your situation. This is why people take matters out of the courts and deal with them themselves.

This forum is such an eye opener. When I found out she was pocketing the rent allowance yesterday, I immediately thought ‘now I’ve got her’ when in fact it makes no difference. At least I know not to waste time on that. I have heard of gardai chasing rent arrears after landlords winning court cases and tenants on welfare trying to do a runner(even if it’s just 20/week). Wishful thinking??? What can I say to make her leave? How can I make her see it’s the best option for her. RTB tribunal will take months and even at that she’ll suit herself. And no, she has no assets.
Threatening court? Does all this affect her on the housing list? She is known to gardai so is any of this criminal? What can I say to make her leave my life?!!!!!

Pawwed Rig · 25-01-2020 9:58pm

Gardai will not get involved. Nothing you can do will affect her life at all. You can probably eventually get her published as a non paying debtor but it is doubtful she would care too much given she is unlikely to ever go looking for a mortgage.
Your aim now should be to get her out asap.

Caranica · 25-01-2020 10:01pm

You need to go through the official channels. Anything otherwise and she'll take you for illegal eviction. A horrible situation to be in and an expensive lesson to learn. Rent is not paid on time, issue 14 day notice of arrears, followed by 28 day notice to quit when that expires. Right from the start, it's the only way to avoid arrears of this magnitude

Gooseygoo · 25-01-2020 10:05pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Unfortunately this is what will happen. I have just finished a similar process (which took the guts of 10 years) which concluded with a sheriff visit to confiscate goods turning up no assets. So I get nothing and have to suck up the €5k loss plus legal costs.

All you can do is focus on getting them out asap and treat it as a lesson learned.

Thanks. Any tips on getting her out? She’s twice the size of me, history of violence and instability, so incredibly rough and knows how to play the system. Eviction date is 1st March....repeated phone calls? Threaten her with court for rent arrears and solicitors fees(I would go all the way if it resulted in causing her even just a morsel of pain) . I’m really on my own with this. My solicitor has wasted 2 months before sending out notices, thought he’d help fight my battle but it really is every man for himself. Worst experience of my life.

Gooseygoo · 25-01-2020 10:09pm

Caranica wrote: »

You need to go through the official channels. Anything otherwise and she'll take you for illegal eviction. A horrible situation to be in and an expensive lesson to learn. Rent is not paid on time, issue 14 day notice of arrears, followed by 28 day notice to quit when that expires. Right from the start, it's the only way to avoid arrears of this magnitude

Thanks, eviction notice sent registered post. She won’t move though, been here before with her. So disheartening. If I was so lucky that she did move on, God help the next landlord. I had a letting agent put her in my house...’vetted’ and all....turns out she’s well known all over for all the wrong reasons.

Tenant pocketed rent allowance

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