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Changing Covid situation- how do you plan for 2021 races

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  • Options
    #32
    Kurt_Godel.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Kurt_Godel.


    peter kern wrote: »
    i wounder how many people in ireland would enter a 2 20 6 , 3 40 10 or 4 60 12 or 5 90 21 race. one would hope superleague the pto champs will help to make distacnes more creative

    I would, and I'd probably win it due to limited numbers;)

    G'wan, if you had a clean slate, three sports swim/bike/run; how would you construct a fair proportion that
    allowed for equal ability across all three?


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    #33
    new2tri19
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Well a marathon swim is 10k , i think that would be a fair distance for a full. I think that seems fair 5k-90-21 it would give the swimmers a chance to build up a sizeable lead. It would never happen i'd imagine because they want to cater to the masses. Swims seem to get cancelled or shortened if weather is bad or sea to rough.

    So unfortunately my point stands that purely for time goals once you can swim a moderate standard the best way to progress your times are to priortise bike and run.


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    #34
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    1 10 4 sounds good to me and then wiggle room depsnding on the course profiles i would go more 1 13.5 3.5 i think tri has the relation for bike and swim about right its just the swim in non drafting thats wrong . i think in draft legal everything is perfect as the swim is really important.

    i would go with a 3.8 130 10 race end of may as a prep race for ironmans and 4 weeks before hardman

    and i would design a 2x 1 k swim 13k bike 3,5 k run race i would not be to hell bend on the distacnes but what suits the course. and variations .

    i watched a age group race in australia that was something like 3 x 400 swim 8 k bike and 1.5 k run and i would say it was still be best race ever i have seen in person so if they can do a race in melbourne why not clontarf races in melbourn start 7 am and on a sunday there is little inconovieince for traffic .




    but definitly for me to really train swimming the swim proportion would have to be at least 2 k for an oly 3.5 for a half and 6 for a full .
    than it would be a triathlon . but i still think half of the races should be as they are now as tri popularity would drop if the ratio was changed ,
    at the same time tri should be a fair sport and right now it is not for swimmer .


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    #35
    okane1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭okane1


    griffin100 wrote: »
    What are your swim times like towards the end of your sessions? I’m back in the pool after a break like everyone else and it’s all grand if I stick to 100s and 200s, but form and speed goes to pot if I try a 400 or when I’ve more than about 1,500m done. I’m finding I’m using the pull buoy all the time whilst I try get the front end of my stroke and my swim fitness back. That said I’m not as bad as I was after the first much longer lockdown.

    Agree with this. I might go months from swimming training. First session back might be 10x100m, first few I'm fine, good form and times but as you go through the repeats they become harder and harder while trying to maintain the same time. I find after 7 I lose the feel of the water and it goes downhill from there. Real struggle at the end. After a few weeks I would be back to a good triathlon swim base.


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    #36
    joey100
    Registered Users Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭joey100


    peter kern wrote: »
    and i would design a 2x 1 k swim 13k bike 3,5 k run race


    There may be a club looking at something like this already. Covid messed up a trial version this year but there was some background planning done for it.


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    #37
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Anyone reckon Ironman will refund people now it's fairly clear the majority of their 2021 races won't be going ahead. :pac:


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    #38
    StaggerLee
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭StaggerLee


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Anyone reckon Ironman will refund people now it's fairly clear the majority of their 2021 races won't be going ahead. :pac:

    Chance of a refund from them is NIL, but, might get some IM races in second half of the year?


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    #39
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    StaggerLee wrote: »
    Chance of a refund from them is NIL, but, might get some IM races in second half of the year?

    Doubt it. Nothing before August / September I would think. Even then people will probably need to provide proof they have been vaccinated etc


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    #40
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    StaggerLee wrote: »
    Chance of a refund from them is NIL, but, might get some IM races in second half of the year?

    it really depends on which ones you entered some countries legislation forced them to give people a voucher and if its not used within i think end of 2021 could be 2022 they have to return the money.


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    #41
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    I got my money back via bank chargeback but they were still sending me mails about reapplying for my entry. So I chanced it back in November and mailed them and told them I couldn't do 2021 and they came back with this
    Thank you very much for your email.

    If the new date of 2021 does not fit your calendar you can apply for a credit voucher to spend on other IRONMAN Group races until December 31, 2021.

    The voucher cannot be redeemed for events which are declared as World Championship or whose participation is only possible through qualification in one or more other events. If there are price differences when booking a new event, the voucher holder must pay the residual value of a price exceeding the value of the voucher separately. If the voucher holder books an event whose price is less than the value of the voucher, the remaining value of the voucher can be used for special purchases associated with the event. This includes the services specified in the registration, which are offered depending on the event, e.g. T-shirts or other merchandise articles, or the engraving of medals.

    The voucher is temporary limited and can be redeemed only for events where the registration has officially been opened in the years 2020 and 2021, and only by following the general online registration process. The voucher is valid from the date of issue until December 31, 2021. The voucher neither grants any right to book in advance before the official registration has opened nor to register for any event without following the general online registration process or to register for an event already sold out. To redeem the voucher the voucher holder must contact the issuer before he/she registers for an event at eventcrediteurope@ironman.com and inform the issuer for which bookings the voucher shall be used. The voucher holder will get a personalized code which he/she must enter to redeem the respective voucher credit.

    In addition, the general terms the voucher holder agrees to at registration for the event apply.

    Please, if you are agree with the conditions confirm in response to this mail. Please note that it may take a few weeks from the time you confirm your acceptance to process your voucher. You will receive a reply email with proof of the total amount of the voucher, as well as instructions on how to redeem it.

    I was in a WhatsApp group for Ironman Spain events for a while and something came up in there in relation to something like this for I think German races..and if people didn't opt for the voucher by end of year then they would be entitled to full refund minus admin fee. Can't remember where I saw all that though, guess as Peter says there are different rules for different jurisdictions.


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    #42
    S_D
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭S_D


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Doubt it. Nothing before August / September I would think. Even then people will probably need to provide proof they have been vaccinated etc


    You do know Ironman have run races recently right? Other countries are still ploughing on, some not.


    Q1 wont see many, but you'll see a lot more back in Q2 & Q3/Q4 should be back to full swing. I'd say any in Q1 will just get moved to later in the year. If it was ironman ireland in March i'd say no, but Dubai will. Marbella in spain is one thats on the fence & mallorca possibly in May could swing either way. I can see a vaccine cert or some proof needed for sure to attend


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    #43
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭griffin100


    I’m tempted to take a punt and enter IM Lanza in May. Total cost of entry and travel is not that high - and a small win I had on the Lotto Millionaire draw will cover most of the costs :). Might be worth the risk and I can always defer the entry to 2022 if needed.


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    #44
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    griffin100 wrote: »
    I’m tempted to take a punt and enter IM Lanza in May. Total cost of entry and travel is not that high - and a small win I had on the Lotto Millionaire draw will cover most of the costs :). Might be worth the risk and I can always defer the entry to 2022 if needed.

    How are you going to get to a pool between now and then?


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    #45
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    S_D wrote: »
    You do know Ironman have run races recently right? Other countries are still ploughing on, some not.


    Q1 wont see many, but you'll see a lot more back in Q2 & Q3/Q4 should be back to full swing. I'd say any in Q1 will just get moved to later in the year. If it was ironman ireland in March i'd say no, but Dubai will. Marbella in spain is one thats on the fence & mallorca possibly in May could swing either way. I can see a vaccine cert or some proof needed for sure to attend

    Aus and NZ aside the first few races on the IM calendar for 2021 are already postponed. With countries have different vaccination rates and vaccines not being available privately there is no way events like these can go ahead not before Autumn and not with normal IM numbers anyway.

    In 2020 from CoachCox analysis
    US had 2 full IM go ahead.
    Europe 1 (+2 70.3)
    Asia Pac 2 (+6 70.3)
    Africa (1 70.3)

    Hardly a promising sign that 2021 events will go ahead especially since most/all on here will be looking at European events.


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    #46
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭griffin100


    tunney wrote: »
    How are you going to get to a pool between now and then?

    I have access to pools if really needed but that's not the problem. The reality is that training for one of the hardest bikes on the IM calendar when I can't cycle more than 5km from home is not really a runner!! Looks like it'll be 2022 for this one.


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    #47
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    griffin100 wrote: »
    I have access to pools if really needed but that's not the problem. The reality is that training for one of the hardest bikes on the IM calendar when I can't cycle more than 5km from home is not really a runner!! Looks like it'll be 2022 for this one.

    Well you can sign up to zwift and do alpe du zwift repeatedly :pac:

    Feels like this level 5 will be a very long one too, without pool time and proper outdoor bike time I wouldn't be bothering to set my sights on anything major unless just getting round was the goal.


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    #48
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭griffin100


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Well you can sign up to zwift and do alpe du zwift repeatedly :pac:

    Feels like this level 5 will be a very long one too, without pool time and proper outdoor bike time I wouldn't be bothering to set my sights on anything major unless just getting round was the goal.

    Just getting around is always just the goal :)

    Lanza is as much about a family holiday as a race but that won’t happen this year so I’ve another target in mind for June which hopefully will happen.

    I’m already entered into Hardman in August :).


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    #49
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Aus and NZ aside the first few races on the IM calendar for 2021 are already postponed. With countries have different vaccination rates and vaccines not being available privately there is no way events like these can go ahead not before Autumn and not with normal IM numbers anyway.

    In 2020 from CoachCox analysis
    US had 2 full IM go ahead.
    Europe 1 (+2 70.3)
    Asia Pac 2 (+6 70.3)
    Africa (1 70.3)

    Hardly a promising sign that 2021 events will go ahead especially since most/all on here will be looking at European events.

    why would you not go for an irish half or full that happened last year and would have the least issues for you if it dosnt happen ?

    likely like last year it will boil down to , do you look at it glass half empty or glass half full...

    i guess the more thinking athlete would not focus too much on branded races with big fields, and will chose races that are a bit remote from big cities.
    they would look more at races that happened last year as i think there is a good chance with the experience councils etc had they are more likely to allow them again as they have data experience etc
    and of course the people that run races last year will have more experience how to do it and most likely even improve on that.

    and if branded i think most people would agree that IM talinn which not run by ironman but on a license is the most proactive team and managed to change a swim venue with a few days notice 2019 and run a half and a full last year .
    and above all they would just enjoy the journey as nobody has any idea whats going to happen, apart from the fact that august and september oktober are
    likely the 3 month with the highest chances for races

    i spoke with a guy a few weeks ago and his first triathlon was a self supported ironman ....
    so a plan b and c is a good idea.
    there was guys who used their fitness to run their first 100k day and so many other things.


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    #50
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    peter kern wrote: »
    why would you not go for an irish half or full that happened last year and would have the least issues for you if it dosnt happen ?

    Me personally? I won't because I've retired. :pac:

    If Metalman goes ahead I'll come out of retirement for the day but I can't see it going ahead.

    A guy I know was telling me during the summer what a crap race he heard Hardman is because there was only one aid station on the bike...I had to explain to him that was partly the point and the self-sufficiency of it would be the attraction for me. He had only ever done Ironman races though (in Ireland). I'll never see the attraction of doing a branded race in Ireland myself.


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    #51
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Got this from Mallorca 140.6 this morning. Interesting how they mention they returned the registration fee for the cancelled 2020 event. :)

    Ironman and big city marathons will potentially face similar challenges with restrictions on numbers they're allowed to have.
    Dear triathletes,

    The Government of the Balearic Islands has announced the rules and regulations applying to sport events based on the health emergency situation, therefore, from the organization of the Mallorca 140.6 Triathlon we have decided to reduce the entries available for the race in this 2021.

    Our responsibility as organizers is to offer the maximum guarantees within our reach to ensure participation of athletes that choose the event. Therefore, we anticipate the possible and foreseeable situation for the next few months, limiting participation to a total of 600 triathletes. As of today, around 100 entries per distance are available.

    Prices until end of January are:

    400€ - 140.6 Distance

    175€ - Half Distance

    We take this opportunity to inform you again about our return policy, which is 100% of the registration until March 31st, and which will be extended if necessary to guarantee the best conditions for you.

    We are living in tough and uncertain times in which it is difficult to control situations beyond our control as an organization, but it is our responsability to take decisions to give the maximum guarantees to the triathletes who chose the Mallorca 140.6 Triathlon. These decisions, such as the one to cancel the 2020 edition returning the registration fee, are made by applying transparency and taking care of the participants, which is the objective and philosophy of this race.

    The circumstances are complicated, but if there is something that we have learned is to adapt as best as possible and continue fighting to be able to enjoy triathlon again.

    We hope you choose to be part of this first edition of Mallorca 140.6!

    Please contact us for any additional questions at:info@mallorca140-6.com

    Our best wishes and strenght for all of you. Let´s go for a 2021 with a lot of triathlon!

    David Thompson

    Race Director


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    #52
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Got this from Mallorca 140.6 this morning. Interesting how they mention they returned the registration fee for the cancelled 2020 event. :)

    Ironman and big city marathons will potentially face similar challenges with restrictions on numbers they're allowed to have.

    I got my "six months to race day" email about IM Austria. I would put it at < 10% that it happens.


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    #53
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    tunney wrote: »
    I got my "six months to race day" email about IM Austria. I would put it at < 10% that it happens.

    They keep trying to get me to re-reg for Vitoria. They don't even know I already got my money back from their bank. :pac:


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    #54
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    tunney wrote: »
    I got my "six months to race day" email about IM Austria. I would put it at < 10% that it happens.

    given that skiing is open for austrians right now i would put that higher than 10 % more like 30 to 49%


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    #55
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    given that skiing is open for austrians right now i would put that higher than 10 % more like 30 to 49%

    Key word highlighted there


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    #56
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    tunney wrote: »
    Key word highlighted there

    i did not know you are the race,and no dave no race. sorry


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    #57
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    i did not know you are the race,and no dave no race. sorry

    Okay, I'll bite.

    By highlighting the word Austrians I was highlighting the fact that the slopes are open to domestic visitors. This is very, very different to being open to international travellers. I can see events, such as IM Austria or Dublin City Marathon for example, being restricted to domestic competitors - with proof of residency in the host country being required to take part. Or a certificate of vaccination for all entrants either but the average IM participant is probably not in the at risk categories.


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    #58
    S_D
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭S_D


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Aus and NZ aside the first few races on the IM calendar for 2021 are already postponed. With countries have different vaccination rates and vaccines not being available privately there is no way events like these can go ahead not before Autumn and not with normal IM numbers anyway.

    In 2020 from CoachCox analysis
    US had 2 full IM go ahead.
    Europe 1 (+2 70.3)
    Asia Pac 2 (+6 70.3)
    Africa (1 70.3)

    Hardly a promising sign that 2021 events will go ahead especially since most/all on here will be looking at European events.


    Well considering you've retired , you wont need to worry about it then I guess :)


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    #59
    S_D
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭S_D


    tunney wrote: »
    Okay, I'll bite.

    By highlighting the word Austrians I was highlighting the fact that the slopes are open to domestic visitors. This is very, very different to being open to international travellers. I can see events, such as IM Austria or Dublin City Marathon for example, being restricted to domestic competitors - with proof of residency in the host country being required to take part. Or a certificate of vaccination for all entrants either but the average IM participant is probably not in the at risk categories.


    Lol thank god you're not in charge eh:rolleyes:


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    #60
    Nidot
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Nidot


    S_D wrote: »
    Lol thank god you're not in charge eh:rolleyes:

    What's with that response?

    I think those are valid controls to put in place. Look at Aus and NZ (the only sensible countries holding events right now) - they require anyone entering the country to isolate in government run residences for two weeks before being allowed mix with the general population and that's how they're controlling the spread of the virus from visitors among the general population.

    Once we do get the virus under control I don't think it would be too harsh to restrict entry to events within Ireland to Irish residents and thereby reduce the chances that a visitor to the country would inadvertently bring the virus with them to an event.


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    #61
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Nidot wrote: »
    Once we do get the virus under control I don't think it would be too harsh to restrict entry to events within Ireland to Irish residents and thereby reduce the chances that a visitor to the country would inadvertently bring the virus with them to an event.


    I think this is the only way Dublin Marathon can go ahead. Irish only and you must show proof of vaccination when picking up your number. Will depend on % that take up vaccine etc also...given you can still get the virus and spread it when vaccinated we're not going to just bounce back to normal events and normal numbers straight away, not in events that attract international competitors anyway.
    Different in Asia Pacific where some regions have all but eradicated the virus.


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