Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

finglashoop · 03-03-2021 11:08pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

They tried the same at my course and its up for discussion at the next committee meeting. But they have agreed to not make this final till after we have meeting

There is an issue about fairness, and it is unique to Carr golf rolling membership. If at another club if they dont pay until courses reopen they will need pay a full 12 months to rejoin so it is the same situation

And it is pay outstanding fees due or wait 6 months to rejoin. It is fair on everyone in the club

We are hoping that some of this may be waived for members who can demonstrate they have been effected (eg on PUP)

and will Carr be doing anything for members who are are paid up?

h2005 · 03-03-2021 11:20pm

finglashoop wrote: »

and will Carr be doing anything for members who are are paid up?

I wouldn’t be holding my breath on that!

redzerdrog · 03-03-2021 11:28pm

Being a member of a club run by Carr golf and haven paid my membership throughout I would be disappointed if someone who hasn't paid over the last 6 months just gets to rock up and start paying again when golf resumes

RoadRunner · 03-03-2021 11:51pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Any evidence of any transmission from playgrounds though?
You can't demand that golf courses be opened based on no transmission and then want playgrounds closed without also providing some transmission evidence!

Okay with playgrounds being open. I just won't take my little one to them when I perceive risk to be high.

Re: golf courses being reopened. I've been on some courses recently, other people on them too. Outdoor, well ventilated, very low population density, no shared contact -well documented ideal non spread conditions. No club in my hand at the time - it would obviously be no different if I had one or even a whole set of them. Members golf (carpark to first tee and 18th green back to car) carries no significant transmission risk. Argue the opposite all you like.

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 11:55am

RoadRunner wrote: »

Okay with playgrounds being open. I just won't take my little one to them when I perceive risk to be high.

Re: golf courses being reopened. I've been on some courses recently, other people on them too. Outdoor, well ventilated, very low population density, no shared contact -well documented ideal non spread conditions. No club in my hand at the time - it would obviously be no different if I had one or even a whole set of them. Members golf (carpark to first tee and 18th green back to car) carries no significant transmission risk. Argue the opposite all you like.

I'm specifically not arguing that there is necessarily any difference in risk of transmission, i'm saying that parks are open to allow people to take essential exercise, golf isnt essential exercise, so its not open.

Kiith · 04-03-2021 11:58am

Walked along the edge of Waterville recently, and it looks fantastic. Didn't step on the course, as they have signs up asking people not to, but walking around it is fine...right? :pac:

Might try have a look at Hogs Head next, though that's harder to get to.

RoadRunner wrote: »

Argue the opposite all you like.

There is no reasonable argument to that point. Perception is the one that gets bandied around a lot. "If golf opens, other sports will want to re-open as well." or something to that effect.

RoadRunner · 04-03-2021 12:04pm

GreeBo wrote: »

i'm saying that parks are open to allow people to take essential exercise, golf isnt essential exercise, so its not open.

Your stance is that people can ONLY exercise in a park and would not be able to do same on a course. I mean I get the idea of trying to see an argument from all sides but at some point (when common sense is disregarded) it's really just trolling and further discussion is pointless.

RoadRunner · 04-03-2021 12:08pm

Kiith wrote: »

"If golf opens, other sports will want to re-open as well." or something to that effect.

Yes this is the main issue. Optics, worry about what the neighbours will think all that carry on and there are arguments that could be made that golf is closed for the greater good. That Golf is closed because people will catch it on the course, I reject.

blue note · 04-03-2021 12:12pm

RGS wrote: »

I hope we don't have the idiotic 2 household codswallop that was suggested before the last lockdown. If they need to have a restriction just allow 3 balls for the 1st month and move to 4 balls in may and I manage most will be happy.

In fairness, that was unenforceable last time around anyway. I think our club took the approach that it was up to the members to comply, so the result was that the timesheet was full of fourballs. Similar to the 5k limit, very few clubs tried to stop members playing when they knew they were coming from more than 5k.

willabur · 04-03-2021 12:18pm

blue note wrote: »

In fairness, that was unenforceable last time around anyway. I think our club took the approach that it was up to the members to comply, so the result was that the timesheet was full of fourballs. Similar to the 5k limit, very few clubs tried to stop members playing when they knew they were coming from more than 5k.

It was a very silly rule. Even if the club was trying to enforce it there were 3 and 4 balls being made up on the 1st tee

Seve OB · 04-03-2021 12:19pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm specifically not arguing that there is necessarily any difference in risk of transmission, i'm saying that parks are open to allow people to take essential exercise, golf isnt essential exercise, so its not open.

What essential exercises can only be done in parks?

gypsy79 · 04-03-2021 12:21pm

finglashoop wrote: »

and will Carr be doing anything for members who are are paid up?

They did give 13 months for the price of 12 and a price freeze which is a lot more than other clubs which is equivalent to over 100 euro

SEORG · 04-03-2021 12:21pm

Break80 wrote: »

I got an email from my club Friday.
We have increased members times, no restrictions on the amount of golf you play, all greenfee tickets you bought last year to be extended to Oct this year and €200.00 on your card to be spent in the clubhouse,
You need to pay in full by middle of March.
I think that's very fair.

Is that a big increase on what members would normally get?

Seve OB · 04-03-2021 12:23pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

They did give 13 months for the price of 12 and a price freeze which is a lot more than other clubs which is equivalent to over 100 euro

Yes for anyone who renewed from 1st of December. Feck all use to me who renewed in October.

gypsy79 · 04-03-2021 12:27pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes for anyone who renewed from 1st of December. Feck all use to me who renewed in October.

You will get it next October. It runs for a year

You are Castleknock so I would guess that the bargaining power is less there? For example we at Elmgreen appear much better getting concessions from Carr than Corballis

finglashoop · 04-03-2021 12:31pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

They did give 13 months for the price of 12 and a price freeze which is a lot more than other clubs which is equivalent to over 100 euro

from last year on condition you signed up for this year.

Seve OB · 04-03-2021 12:39pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

You will get it next October. It runs for a year

You are Castleknock so I would guess that the bargaining power is less there? For example we at Elmgreen appear much better getting concessions from Carr than Corballis

Unlikely. It’s my second club. I don’t play a lot of golf there, credits option suits me for a few games here and there, and bring the family to the restaurant. Restaurant was gone to pot and prices gone stupid even before COVID so we were going less.

I hope they will extend my renewal date, as it is I have only spent about a hundred quid or so. Unlikely I’ll be spending any time in the restaurant before my renewal, they offer a burger on the patio which I refuse to pay €9 for. If it was €5 I’d probably buy 2 every round. Can’t really see myself spending more that a few hundred on my golf between reopening and renewal date. Might get the clubs regripped so that will eat a chunk of it but I’m still likely to have a large balance left.

If they do something sensible, I will stay but probably change to a 5 day as 1500 is to much per year now as I don’t see it being as good a value as it used to be. If they don’t play ball, I’ll buy some vouchers or something and leave.

gypsy79 · 04-03-2021 12:49pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Unlikely. It’s my second club. I don’t play a lot of golf there, credits option suits me for a few games here and there, and bring the family to the restaurant. Restaurant was gone to pot and prices gone stupid even before COVID so we were going less.

I hope they will extend my renewal date, as it is I have only spent about a hundred quid or so. Unlikely I’ll be spending any time in the restaurant before my renewal, they offer a burger on the patio which I refuse to pay €9 for. If it was €5 I’d probably buy 2 every round. Can’t really see myself spending more that a few hundred on my golf between reopening and renewal date. Might get the clubs regripped so that will eat a chunk of it but I’m still likely to have a large balance left.

If they do something sensible, I will stay but probably change to a 5 day as 1500 is to much per year now as I don’t see it being as good a value as it used to be. If they don’t play ball, I’ll buy some vouchers or something and leave.

I personally never seen the value in any of the Castleknock arrangements.

When I was looking to move from Grange Castle when I moved over here I looked around all the deals and I wasnt price sensitive but I just couldnt justify paying double Elmgreen for Castleknock.

That and the fact of an 8 minute drive vs 20 (becoming up to 40 for midweek practice) made the decision for me. In fact I had Westmanstown ahead of Castleknock but drive was final decision (esp for midweek practice in summer)

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 12:51pm

RoadRunner wrote: »

Your stance is that people can ONLY exercise in a park and would not be able to do same on a course. I mean I get the idea of trying to see an argument from all sides but at some point (when common sense is disregarded) it's really just trolling and further discussion is pointless.

Not at all, if you can show where I said that, that would be great!

You can of course exercise in a multitude of ways, but during a *global pandemic* the strange people in government are trying to limit the spread of the virus in our country, hence we are in a maximum lockdown, with people only leaving their homes for essential reasons or for exercise (within a 5km limit)

Your argument seems to be that you can only exercise on a golf course, if the country is only open for essential reasons, why do you think golf is an essential form of exercise? The purpose of golf is not exercise, its to play golf.

You don't need to play golf, you do need to exercise, hence public spaces are open for exercise and golf courses are not open for golf.

Common sense would lead you to realise that golf is not essential for exercise, hence its not open, but you know what they say about common sense!

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 12:54pm

willabur wrote: »

It was a very silly rule. Even if the club was trying to enforce it there were 3 and 4 balls being made up on the 1st tee

It was a sensible rule from a COVId point of view, allow people to play without breaching their bubble, that people couldnt be trusted to abide by the rule goes to show why golf courses are not open now.

Seve OB wrote: »

What essential exercises can only be done in parks?

Sorry, I don't understand the question.
Exercise is essential, hence parks are open to give people access for exercise.
I dont think there is any such thing as an "essential exercise"?

Seve OB · 04-03-2021 2:14pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand the question.
Exercise is essential, hence parks are open to give people access for exercise.
I dont think there is any such thing as an "essential exercise"?

Ok I’ll rephrase.
As you consider exercise to be essential (and I’m with you on that) what exercise can only be done in parks and nowhere else?

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 2:24pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Ok I’ll rephrase.
As you consider exercise to be essential (and I’m with you on that) what exercise can only be done in parks and nowhere else?

I dont think there is any exercise that can "only" be done in parks?

RGS · 04-03-2021 2:35pm

GreenBo I have to disagree with you on the 2 household suggestion. It was a silly rule.
Adhering to the rule you could have had 2 balls, 3 balls and 4 balls on the time sheet which is totally unworkable and creates headaches for the golf shop staff.
It was totally not thought through. Sport Ireland just took what was the guidance for outdoor socialising and failed to adapt for sports.

I notice that golf in England is returning with 4 balls allowed.

Break80 · 04-03-2021 2:38pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Not at all, if you can show where I said that, that would be great!

You can of course exercise in a multitude of ways, but during a *global pandemic* the strange people in government are trying to limit the spread of the virus in our country, hence we are in a maximum lockdown, with people only leaving their homes for essential reasons or for exercise (within a 5km limit)

Your argument seems to be that you can only exercise on a golf course, if the country is only open for essential reasons, why do you think golf is an essential form of exercise? The purpose of golf is not exercise, its to play golf.

You don't need to play golf, you do need to exercise, hence public spaces are open for exercise and golf courses are not open for golf.

Common sense would lead you to realise that golf is not essential for exercise, hence its not open, but you know what they say about common sense!

What are you on about man.
All sport is exercise even darts for God's sake.
I am lucky enough to be able to work full time. At the weekends myself and my wife normally walk the dog by the river within our 5k.
Problem is the place is jammed with hundreds of like minded people.
Queuing for coffee and such like.
I must say everyone doing their best at social distancing.
I would argue if the courses were open I and thousands of others wouldn't be packing out these amenities making them safer for the people that are using them.
It is all down to optics nothing else.
Even you can agree there are a number of sports that can be played safely.
I think the stopping for cofee argument
has been done to death by now.

blue note · 04-03-2021 2:53pm

The to household rule was a silly one. Because it was two difficult too enforce, people didn't see the benefit of it and the result was that it was going 2 be ignored. And when people see it's okay too ignore a rule they'll start two wonder what other rules they can ignore.

Having rules that people won't follow and can't be enforced are counterproductive.

Seve OB · 04-03-2021 3:39pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont think there is any exercise that can "only" be done in parks?

Exactly.
So why then are the parks not closed?

The point is, as you say exercise is essential but not everybody exercises in the same way.

By allowing the parks open for those who do their exercise there but closing other outdoor spaces such as golf courses is discrimination.

benny79 · 04-03-2021 3:55pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Exactly.
So why then are the parks not closed?

The point is, as you say exercise is essential but not everybody exercises in the same way.

By allowing the parks open for those who do their exercise there but closing other outdoor spaces such as golf courses is discrimination.

Thats a very good point actually!

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 4:06pm

RGS wrote: »

GreenBo I have to disagree with you on the 2 household suggestion. It was a silly rule.
Adhering to the rule you could have had 2 balls, 3 balls and 4 balls on the time sheet which is totally unworkable and creates headaches for the golf shop staff.
It was totally not thought through. Sport Ireland just took what was the guidance for outdoor socialising and failed to adapt for sports.

I notice that golf in England is returning with 4 balls allowed.

Coming at it from a government trying to control a pandemic it makes sense, from a pure golf timesheet point of view it doesn't, but if it was that or nothing I'd take that everyday of the week.

Sport Ireland dont get to redefine the guidelines, they have to work within them.

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 4:11pm

Break80 wrote: »

What are you on about man.
All sport is exercise even darts for God's sake.
<snip>
Even you can agree there are a number of sports that can be played safely.

Hey man.

sure all sport is exercise, but all exercise isnt and doesnt have to be sport.

The government arent trying to allow everyone to play sports, they are allowing everyone to exercise by keeping public spaces open to those within 5km.

These are two totally different things!

There are a million things that could arguably be still done safely, but thats not what happens during a lockdown, would you like hundreds of thousands being spent on quangos to give guidance for every single passtime during each lockdown level? I sure as hell wouldnt.

This is a world event, being allowed to exercise during a lockdown is a "privilege", being allowed to do whatever exercise you want isnt a right.

GreeBo · 04-03-2021 4:16pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Exactly.
So why then are the parks not closed?

The point is, as you say exercise is essential but not everybody exercises in the same way.

By allowing the parks open for those who do their exercise there but closing other outdoor spaces such as golf courses is discrimination.

Discrimination? LOL, get over yourself!

Parks are open because there are very many people who without parks wouldn't have anywhere to exercise in. If parks were closed then only people in leafy suburbs could exercise freely, a.k.a discrimination.

The exercise the government are allowing isnt a "hey, go do whatever you normally do" its about giving people the ability to go get some fresh air.

Its a bit like being allowed to drink water during a drought and you arguing that you prefer to drink Guinness so why cant you have Guinness instead!

They arent saying "go do *your* exercise" they are saying "there is a park where you can do *some* exercise". It might not be what you want or like to do, but its available to you if your preferred exercise would violate the restrictions.

I think an awful lot of people are thinking about this ar$e backwards tbh.
Maybe start from "Considering there is a global pandemic I can..." rather than "I want ..."?

Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

Comments

Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions