Irish philosophers

goose2005 · 27-01-2011 6:52am #1

Considering that most of the people discussed on this forum are nationalists from the 1920s/30s, I think that it would be good if we talked about Irish people who have made overall contributions to the great human conversation.

Johannes Scotus Eriugena, Neoplatonist and theologian

By going back to Plato, he revived the nominalist-realist debate.

Eriugena argues the question of predestination entirely on speculative grounds, and starts with the bold affirmation that philosophy and religion are fundamentally one and the same. Even more significant is his handling of authority and reason. Eriugena offered a skilled proof that there can be predestination only to the good for all folk are summoned to be saints.

Eriugena believed that all people and all beings, including animals, reflect attributes of God, towards whom all are capable of progressing and to which all things ultimately must return. To Eriugena, Hell was not a physical place but a condition in which punishment was purifying rather than penal. He was a believer in apocatastasis, which maintains that the universe will eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom.

George Berkeley, notable for immaterialism.

Francis Hutcheson, one of the founders of the Scottish Enlightenment.

William Thompson, egalitarian and utilitarian.

Edmund Burke, founder of conservatism and opponent of the French Revolution.

Overall, I think that Irish thinkers have been ignored by a religion-centred education system.

Einhard · 27-01-2011 7:15am

Interesting topic. Many Irish theologians/philosophers made important contributions to European thought in the so called Dark Ages. The anonymous author of De mirabilibus sacrae scripturae was known as the Irish Augustine, and sought to place miraculous events of the Bible in a more rational context. Dungal of Bobbio was a member of the wider court during Charlemegne's reign, and corresponded with the king and his advisers on astronomy. He also wrote on wisdom and the arts. Sedulius Scottus was active during the reign of Charlemagne's grandson Lothar, and wrote several important commentaries, as well as original works that were significant in their own right.

These are just three of many important Irish Church thinkers, operating both on this island, and on the continent from the 7th centuries onwards. They made great, and often lasting, contributions to European scholarship and knowledge, and it's a pity that they have been largely forgotten.

Eliot Rosewater · 27-01-2011 11:34am

I can't speak for any of those philosophers except Edmund Burke, but I think it's probable he has been intentionally ignored. Neither his life nor his views fit into the accepted nationalist scheme of history. He was from an Anglo-Irish family, educated in Trinity College Dublin and was a member of the House of Commons. His views are even more disturbing: he believed in non-violence (the horror!) and in constitutional means of change - which obviously upsets any post 1916 nationalist.

I have read only one of this books, Reflections on the Revolution in France, and I think it's brilliant. Yet he never seems to feature in the Great Irish Writers lists, and I don't recall him ever being mentioned in secondary school - despite his interesting opinions on a Revolution every child studies.

It might also be partly explained by the anti-intellectual streak in Irish people. Wouldn't want to be praising anyone who got ahead.

delta_bravo · 27-01-2011 11:17pm

When you say they have been neglected in the education system do you mean as in the Junior / Leaving Certificate? The concepts you mention such as immaterialism/egalitarianism/utilitarianism and probably even conservatism are way way beyond the grasp of most students.

The Junior Cert history course does make reference to the great acheivements of Irish in the early christian days in terms of writing and also the Gaeilge "Stair na Gaeilge" section contains sections on the "Golden Age" of Irish writing.

At an educated estimate only about 10% of students in 2nd level would be able comprehend philosophical ideas to an examinable level and probably only about 10% of those would actually enjoy it

DoireNod · 28-01-2011 4:00am

An interesting book on the topic of Irish philosophers is Thomas Duddy's A History of Irish Thought.

goose2005 · 30-01-2011 9:19pm

delta_bravo wrote: »

When you say they have been neglected in the education system do you mean as in the Junior / Leaving Certificate? The concepts you mention such as immaterialism/egalitarianism/utilitarianism and probably even conservatism are way way beyond the grasp of most students.

The Junior Cert history course does make reference to the great acheivements of Irish in the early christian days in terms of writing and also the Gaeilge "Stair na Gaeilge" section contains sections on the "Golden Age" of Irish writing.

At an educated estimate only about 10% of students in 2nd level would be able comprehend philosophical ideas to an examinable level and probably only about 10% of those would actually enjoy it

In Europe, Austria, Croatia, Bulgaria, France, Greece, Italy and Poland teach philosophy in second-level; it's also taught in many Asian countries and at the British A Level. Surely it could be covered in at least basic detail, it's hardly more difficult than understanding calculus, Irish grammar or Shakespeare.

ValJester · 02-02-2011 12:07am

delta_bravo wrote: »

At an educated estimate only about 10% of students in 2nd level would be able comprehend philosophical ideas to an examinable level and probably only about 10% of those would actually enjoy it

Citation needed. There's nothing to say that if people were in contact with it from an early age they wouldn't develop the critical thinking skills needed to grasp and articulate philosophy.

Denerick · 09-02-2011 2:09pm

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I can't speak for any of those philosophers except Edmund Burke, but I think it's probable he has been intentionally ignored. Neither his life nor his views fit into the accepted nationalist scheme of history. He was from an Anglo-Irish family, educated in Trinity College Dublin and was a member of the House of Commons. His views are even more disturbing: he believed in non-violence (the horror!) and in constitutional means of change - which obviously upsets any post 1916 nationalist.

I have read only one of this books, Reflections on the Revolution in France, and I think it's brilliant. Yet he never seems to feature in the Great Irish Writers lists, and I don't recall him ever being mentioned in secondary school - despite his interesting opinions on a Revolution every child studies.

It might also be partly explained by the anti-intellectual streak in Irish people. Wouldn't want to be praising anyone who got ahead.

Indeed. Burke's legacy to the world is well founded. The French Revolution produced conspiracy theories and Robespierre, who in turn created a template for mass purges followed by every totalitarian regime thereafter. To think Burke prophesised all of this in 1791, two full years before the great terror.

It is also a mistake to characterise Burke as the founder of modern conservatism. It is true that American conservatives such as William Buckley embraced Burke as their intellectual founder, but in reality Burke was a devoted liberal who campaigned on all manner of issues back in the day, from slavery, to colonial exploitation, to Irish repression, to the idea of a more constitutional monarchy (Increasing the strength of parliament at the expense of the King, e.g. the regency crisis).

Irish philosophers

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