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Transport Aircraft

12467…49

Comments

  • #92
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Agreed on the C130 front, problem is there are no J models readily available. Those that come up, are quickly snapped up by others. Plenty of H going cheap though. Problem is they have a 4 person flight deck, and we don't train flight engineers, and we have no aircraft that require one. Most civvy pilots who trained with this setup retired 10-15 years ago. It's old tech. Fine when you also operate large fleets of 1950s era bombers and tankers, so this crew has somewhere else to go. Upgrading to J standard is cost prohibitive, when you consider the hours already on the airframe.
    Our best option is to get in on the C17 operated by SAC.

    What about an A400M?


  • #93
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Leonidas BL wrote: »
    What about an A400M?

    Have we, as a nation, won Euromillions? It's a huge cost for something that is still going through teething problems.


  • #94
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Have we, as a nation, won Euromillions? It's a huge cost for something that is still going through teething problems.
    You never know, maybe if the German's are still trying to get rid of some of their order they might want to flog them off cheap?:p


  • #95
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    sparky42 wrote: »
    You never know, maybe if the German's are still trying to get rid of some of their order they might want to flog them off cheap?:p


    You get a lot of aircraft for €175m. The two casa C295 are costing us €221.6m!


  • #96
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Have we, as a nation, won Euromillions? It's a huge cost for something that is still going through teething problems.

    Luxembourg managed to buy one, and they barely have enough space to land it :D


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  • #97
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    You get a lot of aircraft for €175m. The two casa C295 are costing us €221.6m!


    That's for the full life costs though isn't it?


  • #98
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    You get a lot of aircraft for €175m. The two casa C295 are costing us €221.6m!

    I'm guessing it's not really wanted by the DoD , otherwise there'd be a third casa on the way ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #99
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I'm guessing it's not really wanted by the DoD , otherwise there'd be a third casa on the way ,


    It's the DOD, they'd prefer if the DF didn't get anything.


  • #100
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/embraer-hungary-sign-contract-for-two-kc-390-airlifters/141167.article




    No no no, the IAC has long enough been the "launch customer" or "guinea pig", we need something tried, proven & tested, like NATO's C17 in Hungary that Nations are using.


  • #101
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Psychlops wrote: »
    No no no, the IAC has long enough been the "launch customer" or "guinea pig", we need something tried, proven & tested, like NATO's C17 in Hungary that Nations are using.


    So very true, what we should be doing is picking one friendly nation (politically perhaps stick within Europe) and leverage off of them, tbh I'd look at the French.


    The K/C390 may very well be the all singing all dancing product that is claimed, but us being one of the lead customers is insane.


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  • #102
    NewSigGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭NewSigGuy


    The AC has made the mistake in the past of not only buying the Mark One of something but also in a bespoke specification that no other customer replicated.
    So I usually agree on not buying the Mark One of anything but in this case the argument is somewhat different

    The KC-390 is built on many mature technologies, particularly around the engines and avionics.
    The manufacturer is not a small bespoke aircraft company, they are an Airliner and Bizjet company with a proven track record in delivering products that meet the spec and have the support network already in place.
    They will IMHO amass a large and varied customer base for this product.

    The A400M also has many of these positive attributes but has had a particularly troubled certification and entry to service phase, but now appears to be maturing nicely.


  • #103
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    But....There is always a but, for any of this to even happen there would need to be significant works done to Casement because as it stands it is not fit for any of the above.


  • #104
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Psychlops wrote: »
    But....There is always a but, for any of this to even happen there would need to be significant works done to Casement because as it stands it is not fit for any of the above.

    Thats easily solved with Air Station Shannon or if the healy raes had there way Air Station Kerry!


  • #105
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭sparky42


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Thats easily solved with Air Station Shannon or if the healy raes had there way Air Station Kerry!
    Put them in Kerry and that shower will want them in the National Park cutting Rhodo's all day long.


  • #106
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Thats easily solved with Air Station Shannon or if the healy raes had there way Air Station Kerry!

    Air Station kerry would require either a new runway or take a chunk out of the big hill on approach to the west.


  • #107
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Its cool, Healy-Rae plant hire will take a chunk out of the hill for you.


  • #108
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Its cool, Healy-Rae plant hire will take a chunk out of the hill for you.

    An upgrade the runway


  • #109
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Its cool, Healy-Rae plant hire will take a chunk out of the hill for you.

    But do it in such a way that they have to come back in 2 years to take the chunk out again.


  • #110
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If the British where saleing the Hercs and Pumas cheep that they are retiring would it be worth the government putting a bid in or would they be ready for the scrap yard?


  • #111
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    roadmaster wrote: »
    If the British where saleing the Hercs and Pumas cheep that they are retiring would it be worth the government putting a bid in or would they be ready for the scrap yard?

    The Puma are antiques.
    There could be another 15 years in the hercs though.


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  • #112
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    You get a lot of aircraft for €175m. The two casa C295 are costing us €221.6m!

    considering that a Casa costs about 30 million a pop, thats a hell of a contract. I'd imagine the salesman who wangled that one is picking out a new Veyron as we speak. That's 160 mills left for spares and overhauls and you can be sure that there's a healthy chunk of profit in there.


  • #113
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    lease a few 390s. Embraer would bite your hand off for the business. Ireland is the world leader in aircraft leasing so we have people who know how to do it properly. Lease in 3 or 4 390s and you'd have a fast, efficient modern airlifter with excellent spares support.


  • #114
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I agree with that 100 per cent. No point in buying UK cast offs.
    Get some decent kit that's fit for purpose and reliable. Embraer make damned good planes. Could probably manage with two of them just fine and they are keenly priced.


  • #115
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    lease a few 390s. Embraer would bite your hand off for the business. Ireland is the world leader in aircraft leasing so we have people who know how to do it properly. Lease in 3 or 4 390s and you'd have a fast, efficient modern airlifter with excellent spares support.

    The only issue with the 390 is there isn't many completed, and those that are are going to fill existing contracts while the ordered aircraft are manufactured.
    You cannot lease aircraft that don't exist. Only 7 of this type exist on the planet. Embraer won't build extra for leasing.
    Of the 28 ordered by Brazil, only 4 have been delivered as of December.
    No sign of the 5 Portugal ordered in 2019(https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/portuguese-air-forces-embraer-kc-390-passes-preliminary-design-review/139685.article), or the 2 Hungary ordered in 2020(https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug=1206809-hungary-signs-contract-for-acquisition-of-two-multi-mission-kc-390-millennium-airlifters).
    The Ex RAF Herc, while not perfect is ready now, probably for very little. We just need to ask. Even come with a refuelling probe we'll never use.


  • #116
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    considering that a Casa costs about 30 million a pop, thats a hell of a contract. I'd imagine the salesman who wangled that one is picking out a new Veyron as we speak. That's 160 mills left for spares and overhauls and you can be sure that there's a healthy chunk of profit in there.

    Source?
    I assume you mean a C295 in standard configuration costs €30m. I know 20 years ago Poland paid $212m for 8, in standard configuration. (Adjusting for inflation, The equivalent of $314 today=$40m each.
    We aren't getting standard config, we are getting MPA config, with search radar and flir, and a host of other MPA specific fitouts, plus parts and maintenance support. A similar deal for the CN235 has seen them give us almost 30 years of trouble free heavy use.


  • #117
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Hungary and Portugal have been given delivery dates 2022 23 for their Embraer purchases. The AC could wait that long. Similar timescale to recent deliveries from Pilatus. I see the RAF are disposing of their early model Typhoons...could come in handy if the price is right? Pretty new kit inlike the Hercs so might be worth getting.


  • #118
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    Source?
    I assume you mean a C295 in standard configuration costs €30m. I know 20 years ago Poland paid $212m for 8, in standard configuration. (Adjusting for inflation, The equivalent of $314 today=$40m each.
    We aren't getting standard config, we are getting MPA config, with search radar and flir, and a host of other MPA specific fitouts, plus parts and maintenance support. A similar deal for the CN235 has seen them give us almost 30 years of trouble free heavy use.

    Certainly not trouble free. They were new and essentially untested in real world maritime operations. Casa were not good at spares support and were a bit rubbish and took offence when we complained. Because they were unique, there was often only one or two of critical things like radar scanners and the relevant computer so they cost a fortune. They were basically a regional airliner with bits added and the real miracle is that they lasted as long as they have done. These aircraft have been pounded around the Atlantic and its no wonder they got wing boxes replaced.


  • #119
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Certainly not trouble free. They were new and essentially untested in real world maritime operations. Casa were not good at spares support and were a bit rubbish and took offence when we complained. Because they were unique, there was often only one or two of critical things like radar scanners and the relevant computer so they cost a fortune. They were basically a regional airliner with bits added and the real miracle is that they lasted as long as they have done. These aircraft have been pounded around the Atlantic and its no wonder they got wing boxes replaced.

    What are the cases hours like compared to other nations. Have we got got value out of them over the last 27 years for a maritime aircraft?


  • #120
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    For sure. Remember that once the King Airs went, we had no aerial coverage of our EEZ, which is huge. The Casas gave the ability to reach out, right out to the ends of the zones and see what was out there. In pure terms of hours flown, the AC has probably got the highest houred Casas going. This follows the pattern set by the Hs 125 (highest hours per year of type), Gulfstreams (same again), King Airs (routinely exceeded annual hours of worldwide King Air fleet)and the Casas easily exceeded the global fleet average. A Casa would routinely do a 6 hr patrol and it might do that three times a week (or more,depending on what and who was available),so each one could be doing 700 hrs a year, which is way ahead of the average Casa,not including training, ferry flights to overhaul, flights such as para drops, aeromedical and so on. So,in terms of pure utility,definitely worth the money.


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  • #121
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    There are political reasons both Portugal and Hungary are taking on Embraers.

    I can't see Ireland acquiring anything outside of the EU defence stable for years to come.

    I still think the best option for our needs is an A320/1 with modular interior fit-out, wet leased in these bargain times, is most suitable for our needs for the foreseeable future.

    Although an A400M would be a great asset.


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