All Primary / Secondary Masters Courses - Post Q's Here Please

mtoutlemonde · 26-06-2020 7:24pm

Laurie Fat Thumb wrote: »

You need 60 credits in the additional subject covering the correct content and including at least 10 credits from 3rd Year level or higher. You don't need a whole other BA. But it would want to be a core subject to pair with History tbh, to give you any sort of chance at full hours without too much heartbreak subbing for years.

Yes that's what I should have said - do a 'half' a BA to add it to your original. Some universities will call that a higher diploma. If you have an ear for languages, I would consider Irish or a modern foreign language as they will always be in demand. If all else fails, English is the normal subject to go with history.

take everything · 03-07-2020 12:29pm

Kerry4Gold wrote: »

What do you mean here by "pretty much"? Would there some ambiguity?

Ambiguity in the sense that the sections in the form do not prescribe exact modules from such and such a university. In the sense that the form sections are vague eg "mathematical modelling" and I can't do much about this.

Does ringing the teaching council remove ambiguity by getting them to tell me which modules from which university are and aren't covered. I don't think it does, does it.

Or is the only way I can do this is to pay out 200 euro for an assessment from them.

At the moment I'm being told by the PME I'm applying for that the modules look fine eg the mathematical modelling is covered fine by me with the modules I have (my modules in that example are not not called mathematical modelling but are only about mathematical modelling).

As I say the form is not prescriptive enough from what I can see. Is the only way around this to shell out 200 euro to the council for something more prescriptive

mtoutlemonde · 03-07-2020 2:11pm

take everything wrote: »

Ambiguity in the sense that the sections in the form do not prescribe exact modules from such and such a university. In the sense that the form sections are vague eg "mathematical modelling" and I can't do much about this.

Does ringing the teaching council remove ambiguity by getting them to tell me which modules from which university are and aren't covered. I don't think it does, does it.

Or is the only way I can do this is to pay out 200 euro for an assessment from them.

At the moment I'm being told by the PME I'm applying for that the modules look fine eg the mathematical modelling is covered fine by me with the modules I have (my modules in that example are not not called mathematical modelling but are only about mathematical modelling).

As I say the form is not prescriptive enough from what I can see. Is the only way around this to shell out 200 euro to the council for something more prescriptive

I'm assuming that PME is Hibernia with that answer. They want bums on seats so they will say that. This is what happened years ago when people did the dip and then realised that they couldn't register with The Teaching Council.

If it were me, I would try to register under route 3 and see if you can register, if you can - great, if not you see what your options are regarding assessment of qualifications. Registering is €90.

Ringing The Teaching Council will only add to the ambiguity

take everything · 03-07-2020 6:25pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I'm assuming that PME is Hibernia with that answer. They want bums on seats so they will say that. This is what happened years ago when people did the dip and then realised that they couldn't register with The Teaching Council.

If it were me, I would try to register under route 3 and see if you can register, if you can - great, if not you see what your options are regarding assessment of qualifications. Registering is €90.

Ringing The Teaching Council will only add to the ambiguity

No it's not Hibernia.
I was told by the PMEs I have spoken to that you can't get an assessment of your subjects until 6 months into your PME anyway. So it seems like it's a gamble either way.

Nobody will tell you if everything is 100% in order until your on the PME apparently. Then the traffic light system kicks in. Orange: need more modules. Green: fine.
Red: I dunno, 6k down the drain. I asked Hibernia if anyone ever got red and they said no.

It's a bizarre set up IMO. Why can't you check your subjects 100% before starting a PME
Unless someone has more information on this.

mtoutlemonde · 03-07-2020 6:44pm

take everything wrote: »

No it's not Hibernia.
I was told by the PMEs I have spoken to that you can't get an assessment of your subjects until 6 months into your PME anyway. So it seems like it's a gamble either way.

Nobody will tell you if everything is 100% in order until your on the PME apparently. Then the traffic light system kicks in. Orange: need more modules. Green: fine.
Red: I dunno, 6k down the drain. I asked Hibernia if anyone ever got red and they said no.

It's a bizarre set up IMO. Why can't you check your subjects 100% before starting a PME
Unless someone has more I formation on this.

That is bizarre. Can a person get a refund then? I thought you had to have at least one subject before the PME. As I said, a guy in my dip ended up with no subject.

Again I would urge you to register for route 3 and then at least you will have a yes or a no. If it's a yes, you will have a teaching council number which you will need and you can change your registration on completion of the PME to post primary.

stiofan85 · 05-07-2020 6:59pm

How does one go about finding teaching placements for a PME?

mtoutlemonde · 05-07-2020 7:06pm

stiofan85 wrote: »

How does one go about finding teaching placements for a PME?

If in your own area, you know the schools, prepare a cover letter and CV and make an appointment with the principal in August. If not your area, see what schools are around your area and do the same.

stiofan85 · 06-07-2020 7:18pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

If in your own area, you know the schools, prepare a cover letter and CV and make an appointment with the principal in August. If not your area, see what schools are around your area and do the same.

Thanks, I thought there might have been some protocol but seems to be fairly basic.

ConfusedNQT · 13-07-2020 10:07am

Hi! I am currently qualified in Music and R.E. but after qualifying, have struggled to find employment! I am hoping to upskill into another subject, hopefully maths as I've always loved it and been good at it, but can only find courses for teachers who did maths within their undergrad.

I'm hoping that maybe someone can point me in the right direction of a course or who to talk to because I naively though the Teaching Council would be able to help!

Thanks!

bubblemassage · 27-08-2020 3:52pm

PDGEP - PME

Hi, I am enrolled in a level 9 in NCI that enables me to teach in Further Education, Youthreach and ETB posts. It's the Postgraduate Diploma in Arts in Educational Practice in Teaching for Further Education.

I'm mostly interested in working with adult learners but in the future if I wanted to, would it be possible to apply for 2nd year of a PME or approach the Teaching Council to undertake specific modules to be accredited for Post Primary?

Interested to know if anyone has done this!

Kirby Puckett · 18-09-2020 8:14pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I’m also in languages. As long as you have the required amount of literature, three months Erasmus, I think you’ll be ok. I, like my friend completed extra modules in my local university so whatever the shortfall, it can be met. PM me if you want specific details.

I have a few questions about this. Could I PM you?

Kirby Puckett · 18-09-2020 8:16pm

jrmb wrote: »

Has anyone else had trouble categorising modules in the subject declaration forms?

I'm trying to enrol in the modern languages stream but the module titles on my undergraduate course were quite broad (e.g. We studied "Culture" for 15 credits, and not "Poetry" for 5, "Film" for 5 etc...).

When I first researched the PME a few years ago, the Teaching Council listed specific undergraduate degrees instead of asking for a breakdown of modules. My programme appeared on that list, but now it's very difficult to place the subjects into the fields provided on the form.

Just wondering how you solved this in the end as I have had similar issues.

jrmb · 19-09-2020 12:33am

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

Just wondering how you solved this in the end as I have had similar issues.

I had to contact one of the organisers of my college course to ask for the module descriptors for the programme. It was enough for my PME provider, but what happens with the Teaching Council in the end remains to be seen. You're welcome to PM me if you have any other questions.

Kirby Puckett · 22-10-2020 9:04pm

I have a question for anyone who has entered the Language track of a PME.

I was at a virtual Open Day and one of the attendees claimed that elements of her undergraduate course had been rejected by the Teaching Council after she had been accepted onto the PME. She had self-declared as she saw fit but was left looking for undergraduate courses to make up the supposed deficit. It seems that the same content was rejected for courses from one university and accepted for another (in the case of her classmates).

Has this happened to anyone else? Should it be a concern?

mtoutlemonde · 22-10-2020 9:27pm

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

I have a question for anyone who has entered the Language track of a PME.

I was at a virtual Open Day and one of the attendees claimed that elements of her undergraduate course had been rejected by the Teaching Council after she had been accepted onto the PME. She had self-declared as she saw fit but was left looking for undergraduate courses to make up the supposed deficit. It seems that the same content was rejected for courses from one university and accepted for another (in the case of her classmates).

Has this happened to anyone else? Should it be a concern?

I would assume there was a problem with the literature elements. The requirements are on the Teaching Council website. I presume as university courses don't have a nationwide curriculum like the Leaving certificate, it is at the discretion of the lecturer what literature they study and it just so happened that it matched the requirements. You can make up the credits in the evening in most universities.

Kirby Puckett · 22-10-2020 10:13pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I would assume there was a problem with the literature elements. The requirements are on the Teaching Council website. I presume as university courses don't have a nationwide curriculum like the Leaving certificate, it is at the discretion of the lecturer what literature they study and it just so happened that it matched the requirements. You can make up the credits in the evening in most universities.

I think it was indeed literature. The requirements are 15 ECTS in literature (conducted in the language you're going to teach) that cover two of five recommended areas. The weird thing is that graduates of a certain language in one of the universities I know don't have any classes that are conducted 100% in the target language, yet these courses are accepted by the Teaching Council. It seems a bit strange that people from one university are reporting a seemingly-relaxed application of the rules and people from another are reporting a quite strict one.

mtoutlemonde · 22-10-2020 11:26pm

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

I think it was indeed literature. The requirements are 15 ECTS in literature (conducted in the language you're going to teach) that cover two of five recommended areas. The weird thing is that graduates of a certain language in one of the universities I know don't have any classes that are conducted 100% in the target language, yet these courses are accepted by the Teaching Council. It seems a bit strange that people from one university are reporting a seemingly-relaxed application of the rules and people from another are reporting a quite strict one.

I'm a language graduate and maybe it is the university you speak of but our literature lectures were conducted in English - I suppose for understanding. I ended up in a masters class one day due to timetable error and that was conducted in English. We had language labs and language classes conducted by native speakers so would be advantageous for fluency and pronunciation. You won't win any battles with the Teaching Council.

Kirby Puckett · 23-10-2020 4:53pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I'm a language graduate and maybe it is the university you speak of but our literature lectures were conducted in English - I suppose for understanding. I ended up in a masters class one day due to timetable error and that was conducted in English. We had language labs and language classes conducted by native speakers so would be advantageous for fluency and pronunciation. You won't win any battles with the Teaching Council.

I believe the woman's courses were 100% in the language she planned to teach. She was then told that she couldn't register with the council until she took courses of which they approved. It must have been extremely frustrating to have to spend another year studying and paying fees without a clear explanation of why her courses were rejected. Is this seemingly-frivolous behaviour common in interactions with the Council?

mtoutlemonde · 23-10-2020 5:00pm

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

I believe the woman's courses were 100% in the language she planned to teach. She was then told that she couldn't register with the council until she took courses of which they approved. It must have been extremely frustrating to have to spend another year studying and paying fees without a clear explanation of why her courses were rejected. Is this seemingly-frivolous behaviour common in interactions with the Council?

Yes very common. I have a friend who has a masters in a language who needed to do some literature modules. I also had some shortfalls which were rectified by doing extra modules. When you complete the modules, you have to pay the Teaching Council €200 to assess your qualifications. It's a money making machine.

Kirby Puckett · 23-10-2020 7:23pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yes very common. I have a friend who has a masters in a language who needed to do some literature modules. I also had some shortfalls which were rectified by doing extra modules. When you complete the modules, you have to pay the Teaching Council €200 to assess your qualifications. It's a money making machine.

Damn, that's disappointing. The HDip was one year and the PME is two. That's an extra year of fees. Plus all the fees to make up these supposed shortfalls. Then the TC charge you to assess your qualifications? It's almost as if the teacher shortage could be explained somehow.

Cheers for the replies, I may be back in the future with further questions!

mtoutlemonde · 23-10-2020 8:18pm

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

Damn, that's disappointing. The HDip was one year and the PME is two. That's an extra year of fees. Plus all the fees to make up these supposed shortfalls. Then the TC charge you to assess your qualifications? It's almost as if the teacher shortage could be explained somehow.

Cheers for the replies, I may be back in the future with further questions!

No problem. The government have tried to speed up registration but from reading posts here - I'd doubt it. Don't forget that they charge you €65 per year or you don't get paid. Also with those changes, you can register and sub during your PME so that might help a little. There is always a need for language teachers so you have a good subject there. If you are making up shortfalls, inform the university that you are doing the PME and they may reduce those fees.

No problem re questions - happy to help.

starstothesun · 25-11-2020 11:34am

Hi, is there anyone on here that has any idea of the DCU PME post primary points required to be accepted? Does DCU cap the amount of Business Applicants to 10% like some of the other colleges does anyone know?

Separate question also has anyone any knowledge of the Maynooth or Galway PME post primary course timetable - is there a certain amount of hours/or days that your in college each week - i would love to see the structure of the week as just need to figure out which would suit best whilst juggling a part time job to keep me funded while studying.

Polka_Dot · 26-11-2020 8:59pm

Maynooth PME Year 1 you're in college Monday - Wednesday and placement on Thurs & Fri. Everyone has lectures from 10 - 1 and then subject methodologies are in the afternoon. There's also a 3 week block placement in January. In PME 2 the days swap so you're on placement Mon - Wed and college Thursday and Friday, similar set up with lecture times.

stiofan85 · 08-12-2020 9:13am

Hi, I've registered with the teaching council and sent my application to DCU to start the PME in Sept 2021. The prerequisite for registration is securing a placement. Registration closes in February - is it likely to find a placement that far out? In any case I need to get my CV out to schools - is December better than January or will Principals be focused on wrapping for the holidays and getting exams done?

Kirby Puckett · 22-12-2020 5:26pm

Hi.

I found out today that the Teaching Council have changed the requirements for Teachers registering from 2023 (so basically anyone who had hoped to start next September). This is a shock, especially since I have been doing a pre-Master for the last few months to meet requirements which have now disappeared. They don't seem to have updated the Subject Declaration Form though, which is strange as the deadline for the PAC is at the end of January.

starstothesun · 22-12-2020 11:52pm

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

Hi.

I found out today that the Teaching Council have changed the requirements for Teachers registering from 2023 (so basically anyone who had hoped to start next September). This is a shock, especially since I have been doing a pre-Master for the last few months to meet requirements which have now disappeared. They don't seem to have updated the Subject Declaration Form though, which is strange as the deadline for the PAC is at the end of January.

Do you know what kind of changes they are bringing in? you would hope they would give those applicants to PAC in 2021 guidelines imagine completing your PME only to be told then you don’t meet requirements. I thought i read somewhere they are struggling to get people into the teaching sector the last number of years, you would think it would be making it more straight forward to enter they should be & not making it harder

Kirby Puckett · 23-12-2020 2:05am

starstothesun wrote: »

Do you know what kind of changes they are bringing in? you would hope they would give those applicants to PAC in 2021 guidelines imagine completing your PME only to be told then you don’t meet requirements. I thought i read somewhere they are struggling to get people into the teaching sector the last number of years, you would think it would be making it more straight forward to enter they should be & not making it harder

I only saw changes that affect languages.

They have changed the wording of the literature requirements. I can't say whether they have made them stricter or looser because the new Subject Declaration form isn't available yet.

They have also changed the requirement about spending time in a country in which your chosen language is spoken. I believe an ERASMUS used to suffice, but now it must be an "immersive language experience" like working in an educational setting or doing a placement.

Kirby Puckett · 12-01-2021 1:30pm

Just in case anyone was wondering - the new subject declaration forms are now online. The problematic 15 ECTS in literature requirement has been replaced by an unspecified quantity of credits in the "study of texts (aural, oral, written and digital texts)". I don't know how to react to this. First of all, I'm shocked that these changes occurred in the middle of the academic year while I (and others) were taking extra courses for requirements that are now obsolete. I foresee lots of debate about what constitutes an "aural text".

mtoutlemonde · 12-01-2021 8:05pm

Kirby Puckett wrote: »

Just in case anyone was wondering - the new subject declaration forms are now online. The problematic 15 ECTS in literature requirement has been replaced by an unspecified quantity of credits in the "study of texts (aural, oral, written and digital texts)". I don't know how to react to this. First of all, I'm shocked that these changes occurred in the middle of the academic year while I (and others) were taking extra courses for requirements that are now obsolete. I foresee lots of debate about what constitutes an "aural text".

That's terrible but nothing surprises me with the Teaching Council. Did you get your qualifications assessed and they told you what was required - I think this should hold but I could be wrong.

Do you think issuing a non black and white document would mean every teacher would have to get his/her qualifications assessed before doing PME? I will bring it up at union meeting if so! It's obviously a money making move.

Kirby Puckett · 12-01-2021 8:47pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

That's terrible but nothing surprises me with the Teaching Council. Did you get your qualifications assessed and they told you what was required - I think this should hold but I could be wrong.

I applied to a non-PAC university and they "assessed" my qualifications. In other words, they dismissed 10 ECTS of legitimate literature and told me I had to take three literature courses with them. They never mentioned anything about changes in the Subject Declaration form. The website states that all applicants entering a PME in 2021 must meet these new requirements.

However, if you go on the PAC website, the 2016 Subject Declaration form is still the one you have to fill out. I called both PAC and the Teaching Council. The advice is to fill out the 2016 form and, when your qualifications are being assessed, they will use the 2021 form.

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Do you think issuing a non black and white document would mean every teacher would have to get his/her qualifications assessed before doing PME? I will bring it up at union meeting if so! It's obviously a money making move.

It's possible but the Teaching Council had a different view of it today. They claimed that the new form "isn't more stringent" than the previous one. There is a shortage of teachers in my subject and while it might be great fun to reject applicants and force them to take courses in things they've already studied, it's probably not the best way to solve the issues with shortages.

All Primary / Secondary Masters Courses - Post Q's Here Please

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