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05-02-2020, 21:11   #121
Retd.LoyolaCpt
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Balbriggan 3-4 Gonzaga B. One to play midweek

Gonzaga A 6-1 Trinity. TCD didn’t have a board one and were missing two others. 3-2 on the boards that were played.
Balbriggan 3-5 Gonzaga B finished
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16-02-2020, 10:23   #122
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15/02/2020
Kilkenny 6 St Benildus 2
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16-02-2020, 12:40   #123
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Gonzaga B v Blanchardstown score?
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16-02-2020, 13:59   #124
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4.5 Gonzaga B 3.5 Blanchardstown
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18-02-2020, 09:06   #125
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R8. Elm Mount 4-4 Gonzaga A
Elm mount needed to win the match in order to put Gonzaga under any pressure.
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18-02-2020, 21:53   #126
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Rathmines 3.5 Dublin 4.5
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21-02-2020, 18:09   #127
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So what's all this shifty business on the League website with the Gonzaga A v Bray fixture being moved from Sat 29 Feb to Sat 07 March in the last few days.

The Gonzos could have asked at the start of the season for a fixture change because of a 4NCL clash but they didn't. I understand Bray haven't consented to a fixture change. After all Bray didn't accommodate Elm Mount when their board 1 wasn't available in the clash earlier in the season.

It looks like the Gonzos real problem might be the absence of non-Gonzo Armstrong players (like those who play for Balbriggan who play Armstrong on Sat 28 Feb) in their 4NCL team.

Since Bray didn't consent to any change can the League Controller change the fixture back to its original form, stop lying to the chess public this way, stop being manipulated by the Gonzaga controlled ICU and LCU, and then just resign his position.

It really does look like Gonzaga CC are trying to fiddle the title out of Elm Mount and Kilkenny. A fair contest, that's all we ask for.

Last edited by VanMorrison; 21-02-2020 at 19:00.
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21-02-2020, 20:22   #128
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So what's all this shifty business on the League website with the Gonzaga A v Bray fixture being moved from Sat 29 Feb to Sat 07 March in the last few days.

The Gonzos could have asked at the start of the season for a fixture change because of a 4NCL clash but they didn't. I understand Bray haven't consented to a fixture change. After all Bray didn't accommodate Elm Mount when their board 1 wasn't available in the clash earlier in the season.

It looks like the Gonzos real problem might be the absence of non-Gonzo Armstrong players (like those who play for Balbriggan who play Armstrong on Sat 28 Feb) in their 4NCL team.

Since Bray didn't consent to any change can the League Controller change the fixture back to its original form, stop lying to the chess public this way, stop being manipulated by the Gonzaga controlled ICU and LCU, and then just resign his position.

It really does look like Gonzaga CC are trying to fiddle the title out of Elm Mount and Kilkenny. A fair contest, that's all we ask for.

Not sure if this is the correct version of developments so have to wonder what are the facts exactly. Though there are serious questions here alright.

Little bird tells me that despite the fact that there is a Match due on Feb 29th between Gonzaga V Bray in Gonzaga, it seems that within the last few days, the Armstrong controller has taken it upon himself to just change the fixtures, without the agreement of Bray (open to correction on this point) and just told Bray that following communications from Gonzaga he has decided that as

" Gonzaga have a problem with their venue for the next round of the League on the 29 Feb. As this is a home match for them I am moving the game back by a week to 7 March. Gonzaga are happy to see if any of their players would be happy to play their game in Bray or another Dublin Venue. They will also look at mid week as well"

Without the agreement of Bray it seems this was another further response

"Gonzaga have asked for a postponement due to non availability of the school on the day in question."

"Gonzaga are happy to have some of the games played in Bray if that suits, but as this is a home venue for them they have the right to play all the games in Gonzaga."

All this begs a very simple question then.

Why not just have the match take place in a different venue, either in Bray or another venue decided by either Gonzaga or the controller. On the scheduled date of Feb 29?

What is the problem with that?

Bray apparently cannot field a team now and so a 8-0 default for Gonzaga is now looking likely if not unavoidable.

Congrats Gonzaga! So good they don't even need to turn up to win it this year in some matches. Which seems a pity as Elm Mount and Kilkenny looked like they were in with a serious chance and at least were set to give them a run for their money in what would have been an exciting last few rounds.

Armstrong controller clearly has other ideas it seems and appears content for Gonzaga to be helped out as much as possible, regardless of logic and fairness.

Simple thing to just play according to the fixtures, but a change of venue in either Bray (assuming they were/are agreeable?- Not clear if this is/was the case) or a venue choosen by the controller or Gonzaga would be fine?

Unless of course the reason given (problem with the venue) is NOT actually the reason why Gonzaga have been able to ask for change of the fixtures only weeks before a scheduled match and given this.

As none of us knows the exact facts and are assuming certain things it would be good if there was clarity to dampen down the speculation and bad feeling this leaves.

Could all be a case of misunderstanding and or being misinformed here, but it seems like Gonzaga have just bagged an 8-0 default with a bold gambit of trying to get the schedule changed just weeks before a match they would surely win anyway, but they might have had to face a few surprises and tougher more complete Bray team than all the season in this match

Hard luck Elm Mount and Kilkenny , it would have been interesting to see a close contest without favoritism and fixture changes like this.
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21-02-2020, 20:32   #129
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R8. Elm Mount 4-4 Gonzaga A
Elm mount needed to win the match in order to put Gonzaga under any pressure.
A win needed to put them under pressure yes, but not necessarily to still win. Until that is Gonazaga were able to get a change to the fixtures because apparently they had a problem with their venue and instead of playing in the venue of the opposing team or another venue of their choice, they now seem to have secured an 8-0 default against Bray, who cannot get a team for the new imposed and not agreed changed fixture.
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22-02-2020, 08:35   #130
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It is hard to imagine what set of circumstances could render a school as big as Gonzaga unavalable for a chess match. Surely a little room could be found somewhere to accommodate eight small chess boards. If clubs want to give priority to the 4 NCL over their domestic league then so be it but it is not reasonable to inconvenience other clubs for that reason.
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22-02-2020, 16:10   #131
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If it does end up with the outcome of Bray/Greystones defaulting the entire match, what would happen then?

The league has a rule (5.5) that calls for a playoff match in some circumstances when defaults affect the outcome. In this case if Elm Mount finish ahead of Gonzaga A if all games by either against Bray/Greystones are eliminated, then there's a playoff match at Gonzaga that Elm Mount have to win. Since Elm Mount did not do all that well against Bray/Greystones (a 4.5-3.5 loss), this might be a good deal for them. (Kilkenny beat Bray/Greystones 6-2, so it's more mixed for them.)

Still messy for the league, of course.
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22-02-2020, 16:32   #132
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Originally Posted by sodacat11 View Post
It is hard to imagine what set of circumstances could render a school as big as Gonzaga unavalable for a chess match. Surely a little room could be found somewhere to accommodate eight small chess boards. If clubs want to give priority to the 4 NCL over their domestic league then so be it but it is not reasonable to inconvenience other clubs for that reason.
I see that both Blanchardstown and Dublin are playing home Armstrong matches on the 29th.
If Gonzaga’s school is unavailable on the 29th is there scope to play the Gonzaga v Bray match alongside one of the other two Armstrong matches that are taking place on the 29th?
It does look as though the best solution would be to play the fixture in an alternate venue on the 29th, rather than distort the conclusion of the league with an 8-0 walkover that could yet be avoided.
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22-02-2020, 17:04   #133
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If it does end up with the outcome of Bray/Greystones defaulting the entire match, what would happen then?
Bray would be relegated too of course.

I see spidersweb though saying Gonzaga have apparently suggested playing some matches in Bray if required, which seems quite reasonable. It's hardly likely Bray - a big club with plenty of players available - will default 8-0 in that instance surely?
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22-02-2020, 17:49   #134
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Bray would be relegated too of course.

I see spidersweb though saying Gonzaga have apparently suggested playing some matches in Bray if required, which seems quite reasonable. It's hardly likely Bray - a big club with plenty of players available - will default 8-0 in that instance surely?

Gonzaga originally suggested, through their surrogate the League Controller, that some of the postponed games be played at Bray but not on Sat 29 Feb. That detail matters.


The 'can't book a room at Gonzaga' nonsense only came after Bray refused to move the match (or at least some games) from Sat 29 Feb. That came after the League Controller claimed the Gonzaga Captain told him both Captains had agreed to postpone the fixture by one week. Either the Gonzaga Captain lied to the League Controller or the League Controller lied to the Bray Captain.


Gonzaga never suggested all 8 games be played at Bray (or anywhere else) on Sat 29 Feb, which is what you would do if you if you had simply lost your venue.


Now we find the League Controller doing Gonzaga's bidding and declaring the match postponed, against the League rules, the wishes of the Bray Captain and team, and the fair play other teams expect. And of course there is the heavy handed threat that Bray will default 8-0 if they don't agreed to the dictatorial conduct of the League Controller.


The League Controller should publish all his email exchanges with both Captains and then resign.


If Gonzaga can't field a team on 29 Feb that's tough on them.
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22-02-2020, 19:36   #135
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I see the 4 NCL mentioned a couple of times but I don't understand that. The 4 NCL has nothing to do with the Armstrong Cup and is totally irrelevant anyway.

The reason for a change of fixture was/is a problem with the venue. IF that is the case and there is not some slight of hand or funny business going on, then that is an issue that could be dealt with. A few suggestions have been made that make lots of sense, and would presumably solve the entire problem.

As for Bray agreeing or not to play some games to help out Gonzaga, well that would of course have had to be IN ADVANCE of Feb the 29th, though again IF the issue was about the venue, Bray would have been correct to not make such individual arrangements if they just wanted to keep things really simple.

As for the fanciful and naive notion that "It's hardly likely Bray - a big club with plenty of players available - will default 8-0 in that instance surely?" well, that seems to show how little is known and understood about the huge difficiculties of being able to field teams and real possibility that Bray may well be defauting a lot more than just the 8-0 against Gonzaga such is the dissarray and despondency now. Just too much hassle.

Sat 29 Feb

Round 9 Div 5 BEA Cup South Gonzaga Curragh


This seems odd too. Venue problem is the reason given for the change of fixture so how to explain this?

Just play on the orginal date surely.

Last edited by spidersweb; 22-02-2020 at 21:08.
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