How will schools be able to go back in September?

PeterPan92 · 13-04-2020 12:50pm

I am a primary teacher working online constantly, as are all teachers in my school. The vast majority of parents in the school are understanding and co-operative. However, we have seen a number of teachers in our school complaining about how Communions and Confirmations were cancelled, how the school has not rearranged these dates, and how it is a "joke" that the school cannot give them an answer to questions regarding these sacraments. The school obviously have more pressing matters to attend to, and also is clearly incapable of answering such inquiries at present.

My issue with this is that, even if schools were to return, it is highly unlikely events like the Communion and Confirmation could happen anyway, as they are such large events (70-80 children at each, plus families), and they also encourage family gatherings afterwards.

Xertz · 13-04-2020 12:54pm

To be quite honest, and I mean this as no slight on primary schools, but that does rather neatly illustrate the priorities of a certain bubble of the very religious, which I don’t think is reflective of the real world beyond that bubble.

Even the Church itself isn’t making any fuss about those issues and is being practical

Schools will have to reopen or we will have major issues but I could see a scenario where they’ll still have to somehow cope with social distancing measures, testing eg of temperature - perhaps parents being asked to closely monitor for any kind of symptoms and so on.

I can see them being open but with serious limitations on a lot of risks over the months ahead and not before September other than for limited Leaving Cert stuff.

Use of blended learning and minimising congregated time is just going to have to be done for a while. It’s probably easier to do for universities, where there’s a lot of experience of online teaching anyway.

s1ippy · 13-04-2020 12:56pm

irishproduce wrote: »

It's clearly not everyone. It's overwhelmingly beyond any doubt an old and vulernarable people killer. That is just as sad, because we all have old and vulnerable people that we love and worry about. Yes anyone can get it but they won't be too adversely affected. If you don't bank the facts then you are at nothing.
Scaremongering people is not the way to go because soon enough the strong and young will have to go and shoulder the wheel to get this economy moving so that there is resources to care for everyone.

No. Young people also die regularly from this throughout the world. Why would anyone who doesn't have to give their life wilfully put themselves in that position? Young people also stand to lose a lot more good years due to complications, issues with the virus recurring when their immune system is down and shorten their life expectancy dramatically. People should have a choice whether they take the risk with this virus, and most will choose no. So cut out your "shoulder the wheel" blather and stop claiming to speak with authority on any matters pertaining to this because clearly you have absolutely no basis for these sentiments except your own self-interest.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably by that stage we’ll need to start moving forward, with or without Covid 19.

I mean, your same logic applies now. We "need" the economy to be moving. The harsh reality is that the need which outweighs economic activity, now and for the duration of this virus existing without cure, definite treatment or vaccine, is to stop health systems being overwhelmed. I keep saying it but if you insist that you throw yourself under the bus at the earliest opportunity because you're tired of this situation, that's your choice.

This "we" business can get fuçked, you might be expendable or a thrillseeker or something but I and the bulk of reasonable people are not willing to sacrifice themselves because you're bored.

TCM · 13-04-2020 12:56pm

Deleted User wrote:

Probably by that stage weâ€™ll need to start moving forward, with or without Covid 19.

What does that actually mean?

PeterPan92 · 13-04-2020 12:57pm

These parents wouldn't be the religious type as such. It appears that the main issue is that they have caterers, hair, makeup etc. booked and want new dates so they can rebook these before other parents. As I said though, the vast vast majority of parents are being extremely cooperative and understanding.

Murple · 13-04-2020 1:03pm

Xertz wrote: »

To be quite honest, and I mean this as no slight on primary schools, but that does rather neatly illustrate the priorities of a certain bubble of the very religious, which I don’t think is reflective of the real world beyond that bubble.

Even the Church itself isn’t making any fuss about those issues and is being practical

Schools will have to reopen or we will have major issues but I could see a scenario where they’ll still have to somehow cope with social distancing measures, testing eg of temperature - perhaps parents being asked to closely monitor for any kind of symptoms and so on.

I can see them being open but with serious limitations on a lot of risks over the months ahead.

I really don't think the parents in question are 'very religious' because they want the school to give them dates for the Communion and Confirmation. I would guess they are looking for something to tell their upset children or else are looking for a date that they can plan a party around. Some may be looking at things like getting clothes ordered or returning things already bought. The very religious are not going to be looking for a date as the sacraments to them are primarily a religious event and they know that it will happen at some stage but perhaps without the fuss and performance. They would be ready and willing tomorrow if told today.

Xertz · 13-04-2020 1:03pm

The biggest issue I would see is infections fly around schools. I’ve a niece in early stages of primary school and literally EVERYTHING was brought home and spread around her parents and into extended family : colds, flus, more colds and one Christmas she even came home with norovirus (winter vomiting bug) that had broken out at the school and which everyone at a major family Xmas get together then got!

At one stage their household seemed to be down with colds, flus and mystery minor viruses every couple of weeks. It got to the stage you’d nearly want to avoid visiting.

I can’t really see how we’re going to avoid spreading this around rather rapidly when primary schools reopen. It’ll just become endemic. Hopefully we will have more progress on at least repurposed drugs by September.

The other odd thing in Ireland is schooling often isn’t local and gets driven by the way we structure schools around sponsor, ethos and often gender of students. So, unlike many countries where the school district tends to be local, once they reopen you’ll have parents crisscrossing towns and cities dropping kids off at different schools and you’ll be back to complex mingling and serious complexity contact tracing. You’re not going to be able to say that an outbreak in a school in a particular suburb is confined to that suburb, as you’ll have students from all over the place in a lot of cases.

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:24pm

Xertz wrote: »

The biggest issue I would see is infections fly around schools. I’ve a niece in early stages of primary school and literally EVERYTHING was brought home and spread around her parents and into extended family : colds, flus, more colds and one Christmas she even came home with norovirus (winter vomiting bug) that had broken out at the school and which everyone at a major family Xmas get together then got!

At one stage their household seemed to be down with colds, flus and mystery minor viruses every couple of weeks. It got to the stage you’d nearly want to avoid visiting.

I can’t really see how we’re going to avoid spreading this around rather rapidly when primary schools reopen. It’ll just become endemic. Hopefully we will have more progress on at least repurposed drugs by September.

The other odd thing in Ireland is schooling often isn’t local and gets driven by the way we structure schools around sponsor, ethos and often gender of students. So, unlike many countries where the school district tends to be local, once they reopen you’ll have parents crisscrossing towns and cities dropping kids off at different schools and you’ll be back to complex mingling and serious complexity contact tracing.

Agree with much of that.

It becomes a question of do we consider education essential and in any reasonable society is has to be, especially for children in disadvantaged, deprived areas.

So a solution of some type must be found and these next few months offer an opportunity to do so.

The scientists and doctors will try and find solutions to the virus but educators need to consider solutions for continuing education.

The department should be looking into this now.

To me a sensible solution, that would minimise some of the risks you've mentioned above would be each child to attend for one day per week from January onwards meaning that working at home on the other days could be purposeful revision and development of what was covered on their day in class.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 1:26pm

jrosen wrote: »

Something will have to be done. We have had no contact from our primary schools since shut down. No guidance and no support to parents. There was one page uploaded to the school site initially with english and math works to be done in workbooks for the 2 weeks, maybe 40 mins work per day. Plus a project. Then another page uploaded with suggested websites to use.

There is no way this is acceptable long term without real impact to the kids that attend this school.

Have you contacted the school?

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:28pm

s1ippy wrote: »

No. Young people also die regularly from this throughout the world. Why would anyone who doesn't have to give their life wilfully put themselves in that position? Young people also stand to lose a lot more good years due to complications, issues with the virus recurring when their immune system is down and shorten their life expectancy dramatically. People should have a choice whether they take the risk with this virus, and most will choose no. So cut out your "shoulder the wheel" blather and stop claiming to speak with authority on any matters pertaining to this because clearly you have absolutely no basis for these sentiments except your own self-interest.

I mean, your same logic applies now. We "need" the economy to be moving. The harsh reality is that the need which outweighs economic activity, now and for the duration of this virus existing without cure, definite treatment or vaccine, is to stop health systems being overwhelmed. I keep saying it but if you insist that you throw yourself under the bus at the earliest opportunity because you're tired of this situation, that's your choice.

This "we" business can get fuçked, you might be expendable or a thrillseeker or something but I and the bulk of reasonable people are not willing to sacrifice themselves because you're bored.

This is nonsense.

jrosen · 13-04-2020 1:35pm

khalessi wrote: »

Have you contacted the school?

Yes, as have other parents.

Xertz · 13-04-2020 1:37pm

Well you could take sensible measures like one day on / one day off in primary schools to facilitate social distancing measures. Or even one week on / one week off with different sets of students.

It’s not ideal but it’s doable for a few months.

Secondary schools could definitely work with blended learning - mixture of online / project work and in class time to support that, but not everyone in at the same time. You would need maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of the students in at any given time.

Universities should be already well able to do this. Most of them already have extremely good blended learning type systems in place anyway. Obviously there are some aspects like labs and so on that will need to be attended but you can come up with creative ways of keeping numbers down, just until we get at least the repurposed drugs that make it less deadly.

We are going to just have to be creative over the next few months until we can get this managed safely.

Lackey · 13-04-2020 1:37pm

brookers wrote: »

I am a parent with two primary school going children Personally I believe that the Leaving Cert wont go ahead and parents and students will just have to live with that.

I would love for you to save this and set it to pop up in your memories when you are the parent of two secondary school children
See if you still flippantly say ‘they’ll just have to live with it’

I’ve posted this already :
It’s their last year at school with their mates Grad night, pre debs, LC, Debs, LC holiday, earning their own money, College/apprenticeships etc..
if you can't remember being young (or are pretending not to)at least try have a bit of empathy.
You cant put an old head on young shoulders, and you shouldn't want to.

I think
The country will start to reopen in May
Schools will be back in Sept

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:45pm

Xertz wrote: »

Well you could take sensible measures like one day on / one day off in primary schools to facilitate social distancing measures. Or even one week on / one week off with different sets of students.

It’s not ideal but it’s doable for a few months.

Secondary schools could definitely work with blended learning - mixture of online / project work and in class time to support that, but not everyone in at the same time. You would need maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of the students in at any given time.

Universities should be already well able to do this. Most of them already have extremely good blended learning type systems in place anyway. Obviously there are some aspects like labs and so on that will need to be attended but you can come up with creative ways of keeping numbers down, just until we get at least the repurposed drugs that make it less deadly.

We are going to just have to be creative over the next few months until we can get this managed safely.

Exactly.

These are the ideas the department need to work on and principals adapt to suit their own school over the next few months.

Then ready to open in January with each child attending once or twice per week.

With social distancing still in place one would hope not many teachers would become sick but perhaps schools should be permitted to hire extra teachers for this year to ensure cover.

This would be especially for small 2/3 teacher schools, larger schools would manage as already plenty of learning support teachers to cover classes.

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:48pm

Lackey wrote: »

I would love for you to save this and set it to pop up in your memories when you are the parent of two secondary school children
See if you still flippantly say ‘they’ll just have to live with it’

I’ve posted this already :
It’s their last year at school with their mates Grad night, pre debs, LC, Debs, LC holiday, earning their own money, College/apprenticeships etc..
if you can't remember being young (or are pretending not to)at least try have a bit of empathy.
You cant put an old head on young shoulders, and you shouldn't want to.

I think
The country will start to reopen in May
Schools will be back in Sept

This will be extremely tough for leaving certs and even going to college won't be the same this year.

The country will start to reopen in May or June but I fear it will be January before schools, colleges etc reopen and even then it will be in limited form

Xertz · 13-04-2020 1:51pm

They also need extremely serious support from public health officials from the HSE.

Principals should not be left on their own to make calls on complex health matters and I do not mean that as any slight on principals or teachers, but this is a technical matter and needs to be very strong support from technical agencies.

A lot of Irish schools are small and we don’t have organised school district or local council type infrastructure to help advise, so you’ll have a lot of people on their own trying to make decisions about public health.

The Government needs to ensure they’re supported by public health officials and maybe even local GPs might be useful in that regard to interpret stuff.

13-04-2020 1:53pm

TCM wrote: »

What does that actually mean?

We can’t hide from a disease forever. Eventually will need to move forward again. Sooner than later.

Silly to think we’ll be staying in lockdown for years or even months.

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:56pm

Xertz wrote: »

They also need extremely serious support from public health officials from the HSE.

Principals should not be left on their own to make calls on complex health matters and I do not mean that as any slight on principals or teachers, but this is a technical matter and needs to be very strong support from technical agencies.

The question is do we consider opening schools in some form as essential?

I would say that in the short term the answer is certainly no but moving into next year it becomes a more interesting question.

If we do then it can't just be a flippant reopening. Like you said preparations will have to be made and hopefully a January reopening is possible.

Particularly for our most vulnerable and disadvantaged children.

s1ippy · 13-04-2020 2:02pm

trapp wrote: »

This is nonsense.

Fuçking why like?

jrosen · 13-04-2020 2:04pm

I would consider schools to be essential.

Just thinking out loud here. If college doesnt start this year then where do the LC students go and what do they do? That then impacts next years LC and college starts.

If we have kids missing potentially a year of school (if they dont go back to Jan 2021) where is this work made up? The abilities of students vary so much in normal times, ,but all that time out of school will have huge implications to the classroom and the teachers. This will just domino into the next school year.

That aside I dont believe the virus is going anywhere so the question is how do we as a society move forward whist keeping the economy going and life moving on.

trapp · 13-04-2020 2:05pm

s1ippy wrote: »

Fuçking why like?

There is no evidence that young people who get coronavirus and recover suffer long term complications and dramatically reduced life expectancy.

It is complete nonsense.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-04-2020 2:06pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We can’t hide from a disease forever. Eventually will need to move forward again. Sooner than later.

Silly to think we’ll be staying in lockdown for years or even months.

The reasons for being in lockdown will be exactly the same in a few months as they are right now. If people go out and about, the numbers will rise. And they'll explode unless we go back into lockdown.

It'll be a matter of balancing getting everyone to get it but only at the rate the health service can keep up with.

The governments started by saying it would take a few weeks, and then another few weeks, then another few weeks. But the reality is that it will take months or years

trapp · 13-04-2020 2:08pm

jrosen wrote: »

I would consider schools to be essential.

Just thinking out loud here. If college doesnt start this year then where do the LC students go and what do they do? That then impacts next years LC and college starts.

If we have kids missing potentially a year of school (if they dont go back to Jan 2021) where is this work made up? The abilities of students vary so much in normal times, ,but all that time out of school will have huge implications to the classroom and the teachers. This will just domino into the next school year.

That aside I dont believe the virus is going anywhere so the question is how do we as a society move forward whist keeping the economy going and life moving on.

I would consider them essential too, especially for children in so called disadvantaged areas attenting deis schools.

Not essential short term but yes in the long term.

Fully agree too that the virus isn't going anywhere. Waiting for normal to return when it might not happen isn't a solution.

In education, educators need to find solutions.

And online learning only is not a solution long term.

trapp · 13-04-2020 2:10pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The reasons for being in lockdown will be exactly the same in a few months as they are right now. If people go out and about, the numbers will rise. And they'll explode unless we go back into lockdown.

It'll be a matter of balancing getting everyone to get it but only at the rate the health service can keep up with.

The governments started by saying it would take a few weeks, and then another few weeks, then another few weeks. But the reality is that it will take months or years

I suppose the lockdown should give hospitals more time to prepare, increase capacity and so on.

Also give the rest of society time to consider how to move forward without going back to normal as before and through this avoid a huge rise in cases.

In terms of this thread schools will have to consider new ways of working.

s1ippy · 13-04-2020 2:17pm

trapp wrote: »

There is no evidence that young people who get coronavirus and recover suffer long term complications and dramatically reduced life expectancy.

It is complete nonsense.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150608081753.htm
Over 95% of the world's population have health issues and 30% have more than five health issues.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52003804
According to this article, 5% of people under 50 who got the virus were hospitalised.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-percentage-of-the-world-population-is-over-50
There are about 5bn people under 50 alive in the world. If 5% of them got seriously ill then that's 250m people.

Is that fine so, 250m people with dramatically reduced health and life expectancy? What happens if longitudinal studies then discover that it ravages the immune system time and time again? It's already been proved that many healthy people have gotten sick from it more than once because their bodies haven't retained the antibodies which immunise us against other illnesses. Lungs and surrounding muscles become weaker over time due to fighting coronavirus.

I can't understand why you are in such ignorant denial, to the extent that you'll overlook crucial facts so that you can push an economy-focused agenda.

Idbatterim · 13-04-2020 2:32pm

you would wonder if they could use churches and sports halls etc, for education, to keep as many people apart as possible...

Dublingirl80 · 13-04-2020 3:01pm

The chan chan man wrote: »

On one hand, they can’t open in sept if there is no mass produced vaccine, which there wont be. To open the schools then would mean all of this has been pointless.

On the other hand, my view is we cant keep this up long term without this resulting in civil unrest/mental health issues/widespread unemployment etc. i know 4 people now who have had it (all under 60) and it hasnt even been that bad for them! The people dying had no more than 5-7 years left anyway at best! I know others over 80 who couldnt care less - they know something’s gonna get them sooner or later!

As such, i would question if we should just move on with life and whatever happens happens... I’m not even sure if I agree with myself...but its a question the world needs to ask itself at some stage. And even if we do, again, this has all been in vain.

What a horrible way to speak about older people, their lives are just as valuable as anybody else and nobody knows how long they have left. These kinds of comments make me question how some people think.

BanditLuke · 13-04-2020 3:05pm

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

What a horrible way to speak about older people, their lives are just as valuable as anybody else and nobody knows how long they have left. These kinds of comments make me question how some people think.

Unfortunately it's a common theme on here. Sickening tbh.

suicide_circus · 13-04-2020 3:08pm

the old and vulnerable will suffer and die if there is no economy to sustain them

Dublingirl80 · 13-04-2020 3:12pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

the old and vulnerable will suffer and die if there is no economy to sustain them

So might you, health is a priority here, if needs be everyone will need to reduce their standard of living to the very basics, extra tax, reduced incomes, banks should already have reduced the interest rates. We make it work we don't sacrifice people's lives.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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