Airing Religious Views

BattleCorp · 18-04-2019 10:24am #1

Firstly, I think religion is stupid. But hey, if you want to partake, work away.
Secondly, I have no problem with gay people. Live and let live.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-folau-rugby-star-to-be-sacked-over-anti-gay-social-media-post-11694460

That said, it's troubling me that Israel Folou is in so much hot water for airing his own religious views that homosexuals are going to go to hell. To be fair, that's pretty much what the Catholic church teach. It's pretty much what's written in the bible. I think Islam pretty much teaches the same.

So why is he being sacked for airing his religious views, views that are common amongst many? Is it now a crime to air your religious views?

Is it really discrimination to say that gays are going to hell, especially when it's the teaching of many churches around the world?

I could understand the outrage if he said to get your pitchfork and kill gays but he did nothing of the sort.

Or is it a case of it's ok to believe what you like but keep your mouth shut.

Even if the view is something that I don't agree with, I don't agree with silencing that view. If we go down that road, it's not a nice place to end up.

weldoninhio · 18-04-2019 10:30am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Firstly, I think religion is stupid. But hey, if you want to partake, work away.
Secondly, I have no problem with gay people. Live and let live.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-folau-rugby-star-to-be-sacked-over-anti-gay-social-media-post-11694460

That said, it's troubling me that Israel Folou is in so much hot water for airing his own religious views that homosexuals are going to go to hell. To be fair, that's pretty much what the Catholic church teach. It's pretty much what's written in the bible. I think Islam pretty much teaches the same.

So why is he being sacked for airing his religious views, views that are common amongst many? Is it now a crime to air your religious views?

Is it really discrimination to say that gays are going to hell, especially when it's the teaching of many churches around the world?

I could understand the outrage if he said to get your pitchfork and kill gays but he did nothing of the sort.

Or is it a case of it's ok to believe what you like but keep your mouth shut.

Even if the view is something that I don't agree with, I don't agree with silencing that view. If we go down that road, it's not a nice place to end up.

The minority get to tell us now what is right and what is wrong.

Captain Flaps · 18-04-2019 10:30am

He's exercising his freedom of speech, he won't go to jail for it and it's not a crime. His employer has simply exercised their own right to disagree with him and assert that such beliefs are at odds with the ethos of their organisation so they have severed ties with him. I don't see a problem with this. He's not been silenced at all, he's still free to post whatever he wants on social media (although instagram are equally free to remove him if they choose).

Too many people conflate freedom to air views with the right to a platform. He can express his views anywhere he wants at any time, but nobody has to entertain him if they don't want to.

Deebles McBeebles · 18-04-2019 10:31am

I'd have more sympathy for him if it wasn't such a particularly sh*tty view.

valoren · 18-04-2019 10:33am

It's a personal belief. He is free to express his views no matter how controversial they are however, he is (was!) under contract and the people/organisation who gave him that contract can deem what he does or says as gross misconduct and given that what he's said is flagrant and controversial they themselves have the freedom to sever ties, disassociate themselves from him and his comments. That should be no surprise to him and other's. He did it before and got a warning, did it again and got sacked.

riffmongous · 18-04-2019 10:34am

He's just another hypocritical religious type obsessed with the gays and others going to Hell while raking in the cash and buying flash cars, scum

Beta Ray Bill · 18-04-2019 10:34am

The Rule in 2019 is:
You're not allowed to say anything that might "trigger" some mad person or upset a delicate snow flake.

Basically the world has to pretend to be super inclusive, accepting and culturally diverse even though it really isn't.

If he believes that, then fine. (Who cares!?)
But he was an absolute IDIOT for saying it on social media, it's cost him his career.

Day Lewin · 18-04-2019 10:35am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Firstly, I think religion is stupid. But hey, if you want to partake, work away.
Secondly, I have no problem with gay people. Live and let live.

It's a great opening line. You're so virtuous. #swoons

sbsquarepants · 18-04-2019 10:35am

First up - I'm an atheist - I believe gays are going to exact same place as I am, back into the void!

I'm also very much a live and let live type - straight, gay, and anywhere in between doesn't bother me in the slightest. Stick what you want, where you want!

But I can't see the problem with what Falau said (Apart from the usual hysterical PC bollox) - He's a holy joe after all and that's what it says in his holy book, what's the problem?

You might not like it, you might not believe it (I personally neither like, nor believe it) but so what, I'm entitled to my opinion and he's entitled to his.

The world can not be limited only to things which you like and believe.

I'm sure he thinks I'm going to hell too - His thoughts are just that, his thoughts, I don't care what they are!

NIMAN · 18-04-2019 10:36am

No one stopped him from airing his views.

In fact he can do it on the hour every hour from now on if he wants.

But he'll no longer be doing it as a professional rugby player, he'll just be one of many cranks on the Internet.

BattleCorp · 18-04-2019 10:40am

Captain Flaps wrote: »

He's exercising his freedom of speech, he won't go to jail for it and it's not a crime. His employer has simply exercised their own right to disagree with him and assert that such beliefs are at odds with the ethos of their organisation so they have severed ties with him. I don't see a problem with this. He's not been silenced at all, he's still free to post whatever he wants on social media (although instagram are equally free to remove him if they choose).

You don't see a problem with somebody being sacked for having a religious belief and saying this in public - a lawful thing to do?

I can't believe I'm arguing on behalf of religion but hey, it's a strange world.

patmahe · 18-04-2019 10:41am

He (or anyone else) has the right to his opinion and to express it peacefully, equally his employers have a right to their opinion. Where the views differ so extremely there may be consequences.

Australian rugby had to decide what they stood for and how they as an organization want to be seen. If they had continued to let someone with those views play at that level then what message does that send to the world, Australian Rugby is anti-homosexuality? What about the responsibility to gay rugby players or supporters, is it ok to make them feel like outcasts for the sake of this man?

I get your point but I don't think this is religious persecution or an impact on freedom of speech. This is a guy and his employer having a difference of opinion to the extent that they can no longer work together. The fact that religion is involved and Twitter was the chosen forum just meant it was more public than most similar cases.

El Weirdo · 18-04-2019 10:42am

patmahe wrote: »

He (or anyone else) has the right to his opinion and to express it peacefully, equally his employers have a right to their opinion. Where the views differ so extremely there may be consequences.

Australian rugby had to decide what they stood for and how they as an organization want to be seen. If they had continued to let someone with those views play at that level then what message does that send to the world, Australian Rugby is anti-homosexuality? What about the responsibility to gay rugby players or supporters, is it ok to make them feel like outcasts for the sake of this man?

I get your point but I don't think this is religious persecution or an impact on freedom of speech. This is a guy and his employer having a difference of opinion to the extent that they can no longer work together. The fact that religion is involved and Twitter was the chosen forum just meant it was more public than most similar cases.

Not to mention the fact that he was previously warned for doing the same thing.

Sonics2k · 18-04-2019 10:43am

He is absolutely free to state and declare his own personal beliefs.

However, in turn his employer has the right to act on their own beliefs. Everything is just as it should be.

BattleCorp · 18-04-2019 10:43am

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I'd have more sympathy for him if it wasn't such a particularly sh*tty view.

I don't disagree that it's a sh*tty view but he shouldn't lose his job because of it.

Losing your job is no small matter. And to lose your job for something like this is absolutely ridiculous.

Hedgelayer · 18-04-2019 10:44am

Isn't great not to be sensitive, a social justice wanker, or a strident atheist, or dogmatic preacher.

These knobs above are what I think are basically weeds in a garden, once you cut them out of your life you'll flourish.

Fillers in society, usually dregs educated idiot's

There's good atheists and religious people, as for social justice ****, they're definitely the nettles of the garden.

riffmongous · 18-04-2019 10:44am

'The bible said it' doesn't wash, the bible says a whole heap of contradictory stuff, that people pick and choose. If you're not a reclusive hermit living on the mountain in a sackcloth your nothing more than a hypocrite telling someone else they are going to Hell. Why don't these types ever focus on the love thy neighbour as the thyself, jesus died to save you stuff? No its always rules and hell.

And good for those who aren't religious and don't care he says you're going to Hell, but what about those who are? The young people struggling with their sexuality and religion? Why not tell them God created them in his image and Jesus loves them?

Pure scum

Iang87 · 18-04-2019 10:44am

Its not a crime to air his views, he's very much allowed to.

I'm at work now and if I walk into the LGBT council meeting here and say "Well lads ye are all going to hell" then I fully expect to find my p45 on my desk when I get back.

Your views are your views but employers, that pay you, may not share your views which is their right also. If they no longer want to keep you because you don't fit what they feel is best for their company then out you go.

For what its worth I do not share his views and think fair play to Australian rugby for taking a stand against probably their best player.

valoren · 18-04-2019 10:45am

I recall golfer Zach Johnson airing his religious views after he won the US Masters in 2007. During his sit down interview to get the green jacket which is watched by millions he harped on about how Jesus, his lord and saviour, had been "walking the fairways" with him all week, that he found strength from that and conveyed that this helped him win so to speak. So here was another sportsperson airing his religious views. Did his corporate sponsors dump him? Did the companies he endorsed drop him unceremoniously? Of course they didn't. It was nice to see someone take pride in their religious views. Zach Johnson may very well believe that homosexuals are destined to burn in hell, no one knows, because he's not stupid enough to say something like that if he does believe that and is intelligent enough to understand the consequences personally and professionally for him if he said anything like that on any public forum.

Captain Flaps · 18-04-2019 10:46am

BattleCorp wrote: »

You don't see a problem with somebody being sacked for having a religious belief and saying this in public - a lawful thing to do?

I can't believe I'm arguing on behalf of religion but hey, it's a strange world.

No. If I stand up in work and start saying that I think all the gays are going to hell then that would create an unpleasant environment for my gay colleagues and I would rightly be sacked. He was given a warning about this before and he chose to continue. I have no sympathy. People are free to hold and express whatever views they want but they don't have the right to spread them wherever they want without repercussions.

If I start posting openly anti-semetic, homophobic or white supremacist stuff here on boards I will be banned. I am more than welcome to instead go and post on a site that welcomes those views. Likewise, this lad is more than welcome to go and play for the 'mad bigots of australia rubgy league' or establish one himself if it doesn't currently exist.

mcmoustache · 18-04-2019 10:49am

If I had a twitter account heavily associated with my employer (branding, logos etc) and tweeted that a substantial portion of our customers were bad people, I would be warned and if I did it again, I would be sacked. This is normal stuff that happens all the time.

If you work in an office, check your social media policy.

Stop trying to spin social consequences for being a cúnt into a free-issue like we had with such fine people as Alex Jones, Tommy Robinson and Gemma O Doherty.

Beta Ray Bill · 18-04-2019 10:51am

valoren wrote: »

Zach Johnson may very well believe that homosexuals are destined to burn in hell, no one knows, because he's not stupid enough to say something like that if he does believe that and is intelligent enough to understand the consequences personally and professionally for him if he said anything like that on any public forum.

I believe this is called:
Not being an absolute f**king tick!

King of Kings · 18-04-2019 10:51am

NIMAN wrote: »

No one stopped him from airing his views.

In fact he can do it on the hour every hour from now on if he wants.

But he'll no longer be doing it as a professional rugby player, he'll just be one of many cranks on the Internet.

Losing your paycheck is a sanction albeit different to prison but a punishment nonetheless. To argue that he is still protected by free speech is not a valid arguement.

I'll go futher and propose that since rugby union gets government funding that rugby union should be obliged to uphold and protect free speech (but not illegal).

I could understand if he attacked an individual person but he didnt...it was a banal general statement.

F*cking shams.

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 10:53am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Firstly, I think religion is stupid. But hey, if you want to partake, work away.
Secondly, I have no problem with gay people. Live and let live.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-folau-rugby-star-to-be-sacked-over-anti-gay-social-media-post-11694460

That said, it's troubling me that Israel Folou is in so much hot water for airing his own religious views that homosexuals are going to go to hell. To be fair, that's pretty much what the Catholic church teach. It's pretty much what's written in the bible. I think Islam pretty much teaches the same.

So why is he being sacked for airing his religious views, views that are common amongst many? Is it now a crime to air your religious views?

Is it really discrimination to say that gays are going to hell, especially when it's the teaching of many churches around the world?

I could understand the outrage if he said to get your pitchfork and kill gays but he did nothing of the sort.

Or is it a case of it's ok to believe what you like but keep your mouth shut.

Even if the view is something that I don't agree with, I don't agree with silencing that view. If we go down that road, it's not a nice place to end up.

because your make believe guiding structures should have no bearing or influence on anyone else's life

Hotblack Desiato · 18-04-2019 10:53am

BattleCorp wrote: »

To be fair, that's pretty much what the Catholic church teach.

Nope

It's pretty much what's written in the bible.

Where, exactly?

I think Islam pretty much teaches the same.

Given that you were almost certainly brought up as at least a nominal catholic, I wouldn't have too much confidence you'd be that clued up on the teachings of islam, but of course I could be wrong.

So why is he being sacked for airing his religious views

Wrong again. He's being sacked for being a stupid cnut on the internet, a whole year after being warned by his employer to not be a stupid cnut on the internet.

views that are common amongst many?

I doubt that. I hope not in this day and age.

Is it now a crime to air your religious views?

Yes if you are advocating hatred or inciting violence, and rightly so, but afaik he has not been charged with any crime.

Is it really discrimination to say that gays are going to hell

Seriously?

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 10:54am

weldoninhio wrote: »

The minority get to tell us now what is right and what is wrong.

you think the majority agree with Israel Falou's private beliefs?

Roger Hassenforder · 18-04-2019 10:56am

Any update on Billy Vunipola?

BattleCorp · 18-04-2019 10:56am

lawred2 wrote: »

you think the majority agree with Israel Falou's private beliefs?

I don't agree with Israel Falou's private or public beliefs. Not even remotely.

But I do think that he shouldn't lose his job for having those beliefs.

riffmongous · 18-04-2019 10:57am

King of Kings wrote: »

Losing your paycheck is a sanction albeit different to prison but a punishment nonetheless. To argue that he is still protected by free speech is not a valid arguement.

I'll go futher and propose that since rugby union gets government funding that rugby union should be obliged to uphold and protect free speech (but not illegal).

I could understand if he attacked an individual person but he didnt...it was a banal general statement.

F*cking shams.

You need to look up what free speech actually is

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 10:57am

grahambo wrote: »

The Rule in 2019 is:
You're not allowed to say anything that might "trigger" some mad person or upset a delicate snow flake.

Basically the world has to pretend to be super inclusive, accepting and culturally diverse even though it really isn't.

If he believes that, then fine. (Who cares!?)
But he was an absolute IDIOT for saying it on social media, it's cost him his career.

lol

so to find such comments distasteful is to be a snowflake... :rolleyes:

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 10:58am

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't agree with Israel Falou's private or public beliefs. Not even remotely.

But I do think that he shouldn't lose his job for having those beliefs.

He didn't lose his job for "for having those beliefs".

He lost his job for posting hateful crap on the internet despite being previously warned about it.

But sure misrepresent away

Airing Religious Views

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