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Does Ireland have a drug problem or not?
Comments
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NINMAN
Living the dream so.
High on coke and surfing boards.
That is the dream. It's deeply rooted in the American dream.0 -
joeguevara wrote: »I don’t think it’s an over reaction. In my local there are countless people who sell it. Now this is a normal pub and not a backstreet dive. I think people who don’t see your stereotypical street seller down play drugs in society. It is literally everywhere. Every house party you go to there will be more people taking drugs than not. In my lifetime I have never seen more people taking cocaine on the weekend than I have in the past 3-4 years.
You must live in city, where I'm from people do weed every now and again,pubs are mostly full of middle age people having a laugh, house party you have a point there,I was at one over the new year's and the younger crowd were passing around speed but it's not that common0 -
You must live in city, where I'm from people do weed every now and again,pubs are mostly full of middle age people having a laugh, house party you have a point there,I was at one over the new year's and the younger crowd were passing around speed but it's not that common
I live in a suburb of Dublin. But when I go home it’s the same. I often used to joke to my mates here that when I go home people actually go to the jacks to have a p1ss. But now half of the people there would have a bag in their pocket at the weekend.
People are naive if they think it’s a fiction that you can’t get a bag within 5 minutes of going into a bar. I’d say in my local I’d have about 5 people approach me on a Friday or Saturday looking by something simply by how I look. Now I don’t take anything never mind sell but they are not even embarrassed. That is how normalized it has become.0 -
I think the biggest issue is that the anti drugs lobby are heavily financed and have deep routes in catholic groups who constantly are uniform in their argument. Anyone who speaks about the legalization are disregarded as being idealistic students or stoner students. There isn’t the buy in from general society as what professional or any working person will come out and publically argue for the legalization of drugs. That’s why there is no reasonable debate. Also the politicians who legislate don’t live in the real world and are persuaded by groups who spout the same tired arguments. Similar to the prostitution industry. Strong anti lobbying groups but no reasoned debate.
The criminals are laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of end users who are the real victims.0 -
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »I'm not saying none of them are, I'm saying that the idea that it's every weekend is bull****. I'm an adult living in Berlin in full time employment and I have problems sometimes. And that's before we get to the expense part. How is a random 17 year old going to obtain and afford it?! We're talking drugs here. They don't just use a little pocket money and nip down to the local off-license and casually asking someone to nip in and get it for them.
And they certainly are not so careless that they get overheard talking about it!! "Talking openly"...?! That's bull**** right there - and hilariously so!
Sorry but had to reply to this post. How naive in your thoughts are you being?. I don't want to come across to harshly but you are miles behind the times here. I haven't touched drugs in so long that i've almost forgotton and i can still obtain them on any given day within a few hours if i so chose.
How do a large amount of teenagers manage to get a drink when underage? for instance. People have friends, work colleagues, older siblings, god i had a friend at that age who's mother smoked cannabis everyday, although i must add it was for different reasons.
Teenagers have jobs, i know i had, and was earning a significant amount at the time even compared to some ''adults''. drugs are FREELY available and kids being kids a significant proportion of them are going to experiment.Yes Every Weekend.
As for another post mentioning a large portion of people being on cocaine at any given time, well maybe/maybe not but one thing i can guarantee is that if i fancied cocaine when in a pub it wouldn't take me to long to zone in on which group(s) are taking it , maybe having a cigarette with a couple of them and then asking them to do me a favour and ring their dealer/friend to organize a bag. I'm a Dublin man and i couldn't care less if that notion entered my mind in the back of beyond to be honest, it'd happen, nothing surer imo.
As for crack cocaine , the authorities and services that be are only now beginning to recognise the massive problem it is starting to become. I have an acquaintance who works in the services who mentioned that it was freely available years ago. He also mentioned the injection clinics now in the city center , wheither your in agreement or not are a decade late, crack is the new epidemic and the government and these service providers and agencys are just too far behind the curve of it all.0 -
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Sorry but had to reply to this post. How naive in your thoughts are you being?. I don't want to come across to harshly but you are miles behind the times here. I haven't touched drugs in so long that i've almost forgotton and i can still obtain them on any given day within a few hours if i so chose.
How do a large amount of teenagers manage to get a drink when underage? for instance. People have friends, work colleagues, older siblings, god i had a friend at that age who's mother smoked cannabis everyday, although i must add it was for different reasons.
Teenagers have jobs, i know i had, and was earning a significant amount at the time even compared to some ''adults''. drugs are FREELY available and kids being kids a significant proportion of them are going to experiment.Yes Every Weekend.
As for another post mentioning a large portion of people being on cocaine at any given time, well maybe/maybe not but one thing i can guarantee is that if i fancied cocaine when in a pub it wouldn't take me to long to zone in on which group(s) are taking it , maybe having a cigarette with a couple of them and then asking them to do me a favour and ring their dealer/friend to organize a bag. I'm a Dublin man and i couldn't care less if that notion entered my mind in the back of beyond to be honest, it'd happen, nothing surer imo.
As for crack cocaine , the authorities and services that be are only now beginning to recognise the massive problem it is starting to become. I have an acquaintance who works in the services who mentioned that it was freely available years ago. He also mentioned the injection clinics now in the city center , wheither your in agreement or not are a decade late, crack is the new epidemic and the government and these service providers and agencys are just too far behind the curve of it all.
It is interesting that you raise crack and the lack of knowledge is staggering. Crack is base coke and people have a belief that it is a completely different drug than the more popular cocaine. It is crystallized or base Cole and when you hear of people cooking it on a spoon that is just to get rid of impurities to purify or clean it. The issue is that the cocaine being sold is purer than it has ever been with a lot being sold as rock. Now although not exactly the same as crack but if smoked has just as devastating affects. I have seen so many people at parties decide to smoke their cocaine for a laugh not knowing that for all intents and purposes they are smoking crack. Now this isn’t true for every time but it is the start of it.
Smoking it is ingested about 5 times faster than snorting and goes to the brain quicker. Ignorance may mean an addiction and affects that are far worse than envisaged.0 -
joeguevara wrote: »Smoking it is ingested about 5 times faster than snorting and goes to the brain quicker. Ignorance may mean an addiction and affects that are far worse than envisaged.
Surely the real ignorance, is in using such a substance to begin with, regardless of the delivery method... once you've gone down that line (excuse the pun;)) you've pretty much decided that it's worth taking major risks with your health for a fun night out!?0 -
Trump Is Right wrote: »Surely the real ignorance, is in using such a substance to begin with, regardless of the delivery method... once you've gone down that line (excuse the pun;)) you've pretty much decided that it's worth taking major risks with your health for a fun night out!?
The whole premise of your post is your belief that drugs are killers and abstinence is best. If people didn’t do things with risks that they enjoy then life would be boring. Like don’t do parachute jumps because you might die. Don’t drive a fast car around a track cause you might die. Don’t have sex with a stranger because you might die.
Life isn’t like that. Most things that are enjoyable have risks attached. The likelihood of actually dying are miniscual so people do. Taking drugs is not the Russian roulette that you portray and the payoff is worth it to the people. Now I don’t take anything and barely drink these days but I am not naive to think that abstinence is the answer. That’s why i think drug reform is. To lessen the odds of harm.0 -
Trump Is Right wrote: »Surely the real ignorance, is in using such a substance to begin with, regardless of the delivery method... once you've gone down that line (excuse the pun;)) you've pretty much decided that it's worth taking major risks with your health for a fun night out!?
Also I don’t believe taking drugs are as a major risk to your health that you portray. If you show me the deaths from drugs in the last year then the proportion will be so small that it’s irrelevant. And as I said previously the reasons for the drug deaths are invariably not from the drug itself but from additives or not what they thought they were taking or unregulated potency then it bolsters the argument on reform and legalization.
What is ignorant is allowing criminals be in control of what is taken.0 -
The naivety of some of the posts on this thread is staggering.
Try living in an apartment complex. Have lived in two over the last few years. Drug deals aplenty on a daily basis.0 -
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joeguevara wrote: »The whole premise of your post is your belief that drugs are killers and abstinence is best. If people didn’t do things with risks that they enjoy then life would be boring. Like don’t do parachute jumps because you might die. Don’t drive a fast car around a track cause you might die. Don’t have sex with a stranger because you might die.
Life isn’t like that. Most things that are enjoyable have risks attached. The likelihood of actually dying are miniscual so people do. Taking drugs is not the Russian roulette that you portray and the payoff is worth it to the people. Now I don’t take anything and barely drink these days but I am not naive to think that abstinence is the answer. That’s why i think drug reform is. To lessen the odds of harm.
I take your point... but your analogy with skydiving is not a great one tbh.
When you touch down after a successful skydive, your body is usually in the exact same state that is was before you jumped. (assuming you had a normal landing)
But after a night out taking drugs like Coke etc, your body definitely is not in the same state it was beforehand. You can pretty much guarantee that there is some kind of damage done internally (and if you're doing it regularly, the damage accumulates)
And then there is the quality of what you're ingesting... honestly how careful do you imagine most people are when choosing who they take these drugs off?? Again, back to your skydiving analogy... for a start, most people are sober when deciding on a skydiving club. And so are the instructors and pilots.
Not all risky behaviours are equal in their level of accepted risk...0 -
joeguevara wrote: »Also I don’t believe taking drugs are as a major risk to your health that you portray. If you show me the deaths from drugs in the last year then the proportion will be so small that it’s irrelevant. And as I said previously the reasons for the drug deaths are invariably not from the drug itself but from additives or not what they thought they were taking or unregulated potency then it bolsters the argument on reform and legalization.
What is ignorant is allowing criminals be in control of what is taken.
But what about the long term consequences to your health?
People are ignoring future consequences of their actions, in favour of having a good time in the here and now... (not judging people - just pointing it out)
The fact you don't even feel the need to mention the longer term when talking about the health effects, is sort of a case in point tbh...0 -
Trump Is Right wrote: »I take your point... but your analogy with skydiving is not a great one tbh.
When you touch down after a successful skydive, your body is usually in the exact same state that is was before you jumped. (assuming you had a normal landing)
But after a night out taking drugs like Coke etc, your body definitely is not in the same state it was beforehand. You can pretty much guarantee that there is some kind of damage done internally (and if you're doing it regularly, the damage accumulates)
And then there is the quality of what you're ingesting... honestly how careful do you imagine most people are when choosing who they take these drugs off?? Again, back to your skydiving analogy... for a start, most people are sober when deciding on a skydiving club. And so are the instructors and pilots.
Not all risky behaviours are equal in their level of accepted risk...
The analogy was the risk versus payoff of doing something. I think you are overplaying the almost guarantee of internal damage as alcohol or smoking would cause more damage. You never or indeed very rarely hear of someone’s internal organs shutting down or getting cancer from cocaine but compare that to liver damage and lung cancer from alcohol and tobacco.
Your second point is exactly my argument for reform.0 -
Trump Is Right wrote: »But what about the long term consequences to your health?
People are ignoring future consequences of their actions, in favour of having a good time in the here and now... (not judging people - just pointing it out)
The fact you don't even feel the need to mention the longer term when talking about the health effects, is sort of a case in point tbh...
Since when do the majority of people think about long term consequences over short term thrills. Again you could say that about sugar, saturated fats, alcohol and tobacco.
As I have said if it was regulated properly then long term damage would be greatly reduced.0 -
joeguevara wrote: »The analogy was the risk versus payoff of doing something. I think you are overplaying the almost guarantee of internal damage as alcohol or smoking would cause more damage. You never or indeed very rarely hear of someone’s internal organs shutting down or getting cancer from cocaine but compare that to liver damage and lung cancer from alcohol and tobacco.
Your second point is exactly my argument for reform.
This sounds very like the internal dialogue of someone who is trying to make their drug habit seem inconsequential... it's mental mind games. Addicts use this type of logic all the time... "This Vs That" "the risks are tiny" "My behaviour is not like there's" etc etc
You can't see inside your own body after a night of heavy partying with drugs... at least with alcohol, in theory you could go and have your liver tested for minor damage, and then back off the booze for a few weeks. In most cases that would be enough to prevent major long term issues!
What are the options with something like coke??
The particular drug of choice is partly the problem. There is an acknowledgement when you make the choice to take certain substances, that you are inherently less worried about your health or your life...
You can't tell me that someone having a few pints at the weekend and someone else doing a few lines in the toilet, both have the same level of concern for their health... I agree both drugs can be equally damaging.... but the behaviours and attitude are usually not the same!0 -
Trump Is Right wrote: »This sounds very like the internal dialogue of someone who is trying to make their drug habit seem inconsequential... it's mental mind games. Addicts use this type of logic all the time... "This Vs That" "the risks are tiny" "My behaviour is not like there's" etc etc
You can't see inside your own body after a night of heavy partying with drugs... at least with alcohol, in theory you could go and have your liver tested for minor damage, and then back off the booze for a few weeks. In most cases that would be enough to prevent major long term issues!
What are the options with something like coke??
The particular drug of choice is partly the problem. There is an acknowledgement when you make the choice to take certain substances, that you are inherently less worried about your health or your life...
You can't tell me that someone having a few pints at the weekend and someone else doing a few lines in the toilet, both have the same level of concern for their health... I agree both drugs can be equally damaging.... but the behaviours and attitude are usually not the same!
Firstly as I have said I don’t take drugs so not sure about internal dialogue but hopefully you are talking in general. Secondly i don’t think people really think about consequences of actions when out on a weekend.
I agree about no one knows or sees what is inside their body but I go back to the point of it is rare if ever you see internal organs collapsing because of let’s say cocaine compared to alcohol.
I think you are overplaying the behaviors and attitudes argument. I was talking about the majority of people who go out on a Saturday. Do they consider in detail their behaviors and actions or do they just go out and enjoy themselves.
I am not talking about addicts. I am talking about the people that was raised in the OP. I still stand by my point about reform and regulation.0 -
joeguevara wrote: »Firstly as I have said I don’t take drugs so not sure about internal dialogue but hopefully you are talking in general. Secondly i don’t think people really think about consequences of actions when out on a weekend.
I agree about no one knows or sees what is inside their body but I go back to the point of it is rare if ever you see internal organs collapsing because of let’s say cocaine compared to alcohol.
I think you are overplaying the behaviors and attitudes argument. I was talking about the majority of people who go out on a Saturday. Do they consider in detail their behaviors and actions or do they just go out and enjoy themselves.
I am not talking about addicts. I am talking about the people that was raised in the OP. I still stand by my point about reform and regulation.
Yes, I was talking in general...
I worry about legalization, for the reasons I pointed out above... there is a big danger that all recreational drugs get viewed as being equal in their potential dangers.
But they are not equal, and the behaviours attached to certain drugs are not the same. Having a few lines of coke on the weekend is not the same as having a few pints... there is a very real danger that they will be viewed as being essentially the same thing.
When is the last time you heard of someone dropping dead or OD'ing after downing a bad pint of larger in their local?? I'm sure it's possible, but not very likely...
But the main difference is in the accepted level of risk and behaviours. People who are happy to do a few lines on the weekend are not usually the same type of people who only like to have a few pints watching the rugby/soccer... and there is a push in society from certain people, towards making both behaviors equal in how they're viewed socially. To me that's a dangerous way of thinking...0 -
joeguevara wrote: »Firstly as I have said I don’t take drugs so not sure about internal dialogue but hopefully you are talking in general. Secondly i don’t think people really think about consequences of actions when out on a weekend.
I agree about no one knows or sees what is inside their body but I go back to the point of it is rare if ever you see internal organs collapsing because of let’s say cocaine compared to alcohol.
I think you are overplaying the behaviors and attitudes argument. I was talking about the majority of people who go out on a Saturday. Do they consider in detail their behaviors and actions or do they just go out and enjoy themselves.
I am not talking about addicts. I am talking about the people that was raised in the OP. I still stand by my point about reform and regulation.
Have you ever taken cocaine? I would imagine that a drug that causes most people to be sitting on the toilet for a portion of the night, dialates their pupils and causes weight loss over long term use does effect their organs.
Just google the effects, this is from the top page:
Long-term effects
Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain
High blood pressure, leading to heart attacks, strokes, and death
Liver, kidney and lung damage
Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
Respiratory failure if smoked
Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
Malnutrition, weight loss
Severe tooth decay
Auditory and tactile hallucinations
Sexual problems, reproductive damage and infertility (for both men and women)
Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
Irritability and mood disturbances
Increased frequency of risky behaviour
Delirium or psychosis
Severe depression
Tolerance and addiction (even after just one use)0 -
Trump Is Right wrote: »Yes, I was talking in general...
I worry about legalization, for the reasons I pointed out above... there is a big danger that all recreational drugs get viewed as being equal in their potential dangers.
But they are not equal, and the behaviours attached to certain drugs are not the same. Having a few lines of coke on the weekend is not the same as having a few pints... there is a very real danger that they will be viewed as being essentially the same thing.
When is the last time you heard of someone dropping dead or OD'ing after downing a bad pint of larger in their local?? I'm sure it's possible, but not very likely...
But the main difference is in the accepted level of risk and behaviours. People who are happy to do a few lines on the weekend are not usually the same type of people who only like to have a few pints watching the rugby/soccer... and there is a push in society from certain people, towards making both behaviors equal in how they're viewed socially. To me that's a dangerous way of thinking...
So what is the alternative? Preserve the status quo, ignore the fact it’s widespread and allow criminals to control? If you talk about education then that is naïveté and has proven it doesn’t work.0 -
Flippyfloppy wrote: »Have you ever taken cocaine? I would imagine that a drug that causes most people to be sitting on the toilet for a portion of the night, dialates their pupils and causes weight loss over long term use does effect their organs.
Just google the effects, this is from the top page:
Long-term effects
Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain
High blood pressure, leading to heart attacks, strokes, and death
Liver, kidney and lung damage
Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
Respiratory failure if smoked
Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
Malnutrition, weight loss
Severe tooth decay
Auditory and tactile hallucinations
Sexual problems, reproductive damage and infertility (for both men and women)
Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
Irritability and mood disturbances
Increased frequency of risky behaviour
Delirium or psychosis
Severe depression
Tolerance and addiction (even after just one use)
Yes I have. Not for me.
Googling side affects doesn’t go to my argument. The issue is what is being done isn’t working.0 -
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This thread is starting to read like virgins discussing STDs....0
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Samuri Suicide wrote: »This thread is starting to read like virgins discussing STDs....
Hahah I get you. But I have a lot of experience on this both personally and professionally. Also I am not the same person now i was 5-10 years ago.0 -
joeguevara wrote: »Hahah I get you. But I have a lot of experience on this both personally and professionally. Also I am not the same person now i was 5-10 years ago.
Ireland has a low level of drug abuse and criminality internationally. The problem is that the tolerance of bad behaviour is so high here, such behaviour will increase exponentially and we will have a big problem quite soon.0 -
Ireland has a low level of drug abuse and criminality internationally. The problem is that the tolerance of bad behaviour is so high here, such behaviour will increase exponentially and we will have a big problem quite soon.
Don’t know where you got that as we are one of the highest in Europe.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1099923/ireland-among-highest-level-of-drug-use-in-europe-as-number-of-people-with-drug-related-hiv-increasing/
Also it is increasing https://www.thejournal.ie/drugs-ireland-statistics-4222407-Sep2018/
If I accept your assertion that we have low levels of criminality then that means that drugs don’t increase crime.0 -
Our problem with drugs, is how badly we deal with it, but it's probably just as bad in many other countries0
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Wanderer78 wrote: »Our problem with drugs, is how badly we deal with it, but it's probably just as bad in many other countries
The problem really is the fact that the world in all its wisdom has decided that it is better to treat it as the route of all evil and spend billions on a ‘war against it’ which has failed spectacularly and caused the bloodshed of millions. It has allowed criminals to profit which literally by governments. It has caused people to live in poverty as no more than slaves with constant fear from the cartels as well as the police.
What has it achieved. Nothing.
Instead of legalizing it and allow it to be treated as a legitimate business.
I wouldn’t say I am anti drugs but am definitely far from pro. But I am a pragmatist. If something has failed so badly why continue the same way.0 -
The article quoted is highly parsed for attention as one would expect for a tabloid paper. The annex at the end of the actual report suggests we are comparable to our european peers and we are a veritable paradise compared to anywhere outside Europe..ie worldwidejoeguevara wrote: »Don’t know where you got that as we are one of the highest in Europe.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1099923/ireland-among-highest-level-of-drug-use-in-europe-as-number-of-people-with-drug-related-hiv-increasing/
Also it is increasing https://www.thejournal.ie/drugs-ireland-statistics-4222407-Sep2018/
If I accept your assertion that we have low levels of criminality then that means that drugs don’t increase crime.
Internationally we do have low levels of criminality but crime is rising in tandem with increased drug use.0 -
joeguevara wrote:I wouldn’t say I am anti drugs but am definitely far from pro. But I am a pragmatist. If something has failed so badly why continue the same way.
Us humans are unusual, but it is somewhat understandable why we continue as is, addiction is complicated and difficult to deal with, it has affected most families globally, and we have remained stuck in our ways due to its complexity. I do believe legalising would probably be a better route, but it's important to know, this approach would introduce it's own complexities and difficulties. There's effectively no real solution to our drug and addiction problems, but we re in desperate need of reforming our approaches to dealing with it, particularly within our health and legal systems, I do think this is slowly occuring though0 -
The article quoted is highly parsed for attention as one would expect for a tabloid paper. The annex at the end of the actual report suggests we are comparable to our european peers and we are a veritable paradise compared to anywhere outside Europe..ie worldwide
Internationally we do have low levels of criminality but crime is rising in tandem with increased drug use.
Crime is rising because drugs are controlled by criminal. Take that power away then serioisbcrime such as gang deaths etc will fall. I am just saying that the current way we are dealing with things isn’t working.0 -
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joeguevara wrote:Crime is rising because drugs are controlled by criminal. Take that power away then serioisbcrime such as gang deaths etc will fall. I am just saying that the current way we are dealing with things isn’t working.
I'm not convinced this will truly occur, do we have absolute proof of this occuring anywhere in the world, humans would kill over water?0
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