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Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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Comments

  • #122
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Some people need to bone up on China's facial recognition system and the one Singapore is installing.


    There's a difference between a purposefully designed, built and installed system and one made of a hodge-podge of personal recording devices that aren't of sufficient quality, placement or centrally connected.


  • #123
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,651 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You think UK Airports and municipal authorities install low resolution hodge podge equipment? They are probably the most thoroughly surveiled country on Earth. They wrote the book on population surveilance.


  • #124
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    cnocbui wrote: »
    You think UK Airports and municipal authorities install low resolution hodge podge equipment? They are probably the most thoroughly surveiled country on Earth. They wrote the book on population surveilance.


    They left the airport....


  • #125
    Sal Butamol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭Sal Butamol


    The whole official narrative is utterly laughable and illogical


  • #126
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,098 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sal Butamol wrote: »
    The whole official narrative is utterly laughable and illogical


    I can only presume you are referring to the narrative coming from russia.


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  • #127
    Sal Butamol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭Sal Butamol


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I can only presume you are referring to the narrative coming from russia.

    You presume wrong. Funny.


  • #128
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I can only presume you are referring to the narrative coming from russia.
    Some people will believe literally anything so long as "their side" tells them to.

    It's funny after months of "where is the video evidence? The UK is full of cameras so if this was Russia they would have video evidence" just how predictable it was that the line would immediately change to "the video evidence is fake because of course!" though.


  • #129
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Sal Butamol wrote: »
    The whole official narrative is utterly laughable and illogical

    You should contact scotland yard. I'm sure they will be overjoyed the have someone as clued in as you are. Every bit of information helps:)


  • #130
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    cnocbui wrote: »
    You think UK Airports and municipal authorities install low resolution hodge podge equipment? They are probably the most thoroughly surveiled country on Earth. They wrote the book on population surveilance.
    Sure. But surveillance equipment is only good when you know who or what you're looking for.

    These two guys entered and left the country before anyone even knew the Skripals had been poisoned.


  • #131
    muddypaws
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    seamus wrote: »
    2smiggy wrote: »
    who know's who or what was involved, just i'd be very slow in believing a repor 6 months after the fact. This was world wide news at the time, and it took 6 months to pick out a few cctv photos, and as they admit, probably fake names, and then put the blame on russian secret service ?? strikes me as very odd
    The level of denialism to convince yourself of this is nothing short of amazing.

    Two people are found in a near-death state in a small park in a quiet part of LONDON poisoned, with no witnesses nor any trace of the poison.

    And you're surprised that it took this long to get CCTV images of the suspects? Are you fncking serious?

    We should be amazed they have anything at all.

    Are you pro-Russia, or do you just hate the Brits, so distrust them by default?

    Has there been another incident?


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  • #132
    2smiggy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,904 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    seamus wrote: »
    Sure. But surveillance equipment is only good when you know who or what you're looking for.

    These two guys entered and left the country before anyone even knew the Skripals had been poisoned.

    London has one of the highest number of CCTVs in the world, if not the most surveyed city in the world. They knew where the victims travelled that day. Not too much of a chore to go through that surveillance. Also any one travelling from outside the EU into Britain would have their passports scanned. It took six months to come up with this ?

    I'm not pro Britain or pro Russian, but thanks for asking


  • #133
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    2smiggy wrote: »
    London has one of the highest number of CCTVs in the world, if not the most surveyed city in the world. They knew where the victims travelled that day. Not too much of a chore to go through that surveillance. Also any one travelling from outside the EU into Britain would have their passports scanned. It took six months to come up with this ?

    I'm not pro Britain or pro Russian, but thanks for asking


    Highest number of CCTV but it's mainly privately owned, inward facing, of varying quality, not joined up and not designed for any specific purpose beyond recording what's in front of it. They'd literally have to go door-to-door to gather most of the video and then go through it to weed out the useless stuff. 6 months sounds quick to me.


    Edit: Best article I can find after 30s of looking: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/mar/02/cctv-cameras-watching-surveillance
    If you remember the jogger that tried to push a woman in front of a bus in London a while back, you might also remember that they never identified him, despite the apparent omniscient surveillance system.


  • #134
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,098 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2smiggy wrote: »
    London has one of the highest number of CCTVs in the world, if not the most surveyed city in the world. They knew where the victims travelled that day. Not too much of a chore to go through that surveillance.


    except the victims were not in London. They were in salisbury. So the police have to go through all the footage from salisbury and somehow try to pick out a suspect or suspects without knowing who it is they are looking for. and once they have found a suspect they have to trawl through thousands of cameras to find out their movements in the time preceding the attack. That sounds like a chore to me. Perhaps you have some expert knowledge you would like to share? Watching every episode of CSI does not count as expert knowledge btw.


    2smiggy wrote: »
    Also any one travelling from outside the EU into Britain would have their passports scanned. It took six months to come up with this ?

    I'm not pro Britain or pro Russian, but thanks for asking


    How does this help on its own? They had no idea the attackers came from outside the EU and if they were looking for someone from outside the EU they did not know when they came into the UK. Do you have any idea how many million non-eu visitors arrive in the UK every year.


  • #135
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    xckjoo wrote: »
    If you remember the jogger that tried to push a woman in front of a bus in London a while back, you might also remember that they never identified him, despite the apparent omniscient surveillance system.

    All just part of the British deep state plot to trick you, you see.


  • #136
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,027 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    2smiggy wrote: »
    London has one of the highest number of CCTVs in the world, if not the most surveyed city in the world. They knew where the victims travelled that day. Not too much of a chore to go through that surveillance. Also any one travelling from outside the EU into Britain would have their passports scanned. It took six months to come up with this ?
    If they were genuine GRU professionals they would have entered the UK from another EU country, the list is endless, the Channel tunnel, France, Netherlands, Belgium, the Rep of Ireland, Northern Ireland, flying to London from Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania would raise little suspicion with millions from those countries resident in the UK. No, these two "hit men" :D entered the UK from ....... Moscow!!
    This stuff is even funnier than Austin Powers!


  • #137
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    2smiggy wrote: »
    London has one of the highest number of CCTVs in the world, if not the most surveyed city in the world. They knew where the victims travelled that day. Not too much of a chore to go through that surveillance. Also any one travelling from outside the EU into Britain would have their passports scanned. It took six months to come up with this ?
    "Not too much of a chore"? What are you basing that on?

    They know where the victims went that day. But they don't know where or when they picked up the poison. They don't know if the victims crossed paths with the attackers or if the poison was left for them to find. In the latter case, if it was left for them to find, they don't know when and where it was left. Could it have been days before? Weeks before?

    What use is going through the surveillance of the Skripal's movements when the attackers may not have been there for days?

    I'm not sure what relevance scanning the passports has. These guys were travelling on fake passports. Just two Russians entering the UK on holiday, indistinguishable from the 200 other innocent Russians they shared the flight with.

    You seem to have this belief that there's a big "24"-esque control room somewhere where people can bash a few keys on their keyboard and instantly bring up CCTV feeds from any camera and have a computer analyse it and enhance it in real time.


  • #138
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    seamus wrote: »
    "Not too much of a chore"? What are you basing that on?

    They know where the victims went that day. But they don't know where or when they picked up the poison. They don't know if the victims crossed paths with the attackers or if the poison was left for them to find. In the latter case, if it was left for them to find, they don't know when and where it was left. Could it have been days before? Weeks before?

    What use is going through the surveillance of the Skripal's movements when the attackers may not have been there for days?

    I'm not sure what relevance scanning the passports has. These guys were travelling on fake passports. Just two Russians entering the UK on holiday, indistinguishable from the 200 other innocent Russians they shared the flight with.

    You seem to have this belief that there's a big "24"-esque control room somewhere where people can bash a few keys on their keyboard and instantly bring up CCTV feeds from any camera and have a computer analyse it and enhance it in real time.


    "Enhance the image and zoom in"


  • #139
    arcticthistle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭arcticthistle


    seamus wrote: »
    "Not too much of a chore"? What are you basing that on?

    They know where the victims went that day. But they don't know where or when they picked up the poison. They don't know if the victims crossed paths with the attackers or if the poison was left for them to find. In the latter case, if it was left for them to find, they don't know when and where it was left. Could it have been days before? Weeks before?

    What use is going through the surveillance of the Skripal's movements when the attackers may not have been there for days?

    I'm not sure what relevance scanning the passports has. These guys were travelling on fake passports. Just two Russians entering the UK on holiday, indistinguishable from the 200 other innocent Russians they shared the flight with.

    You seem to have this belief that there's a big "24"-esque control room somewhere where people can bash a few keys on their keyboard and instantly bring up CCTV feeds from any camera and have a computer analyse it and enhance it in real time.

    Well they had the Parsons Green train bomber in the bag the very next day. They can track football hooligans in real time on match days.


  • #140
    arcticthistle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭arcticthistle


    For anybody who is interested the photographs of the two guys arriving at Gatwick are available on the Met's website. As a newcomer I can't post links but this might get around it:

    news.met.police.uk/images/cctv1-equals-image-of-petrov-at-gatwick-airport-at-15-00hrs-on-02-march-2018-1407995

    AND


    news.met.police.uk/images/cctv2-equals-image-of-boshirov-at-gatwick-airport-at-15-00hrs-on-02-march-2018-1407997

    just put http colon slash slash in front.

    If anybody else wants to post the full link to these to make it convenient for other then go for it.


  • #141
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    arcticthistle wrote: »
    Well they had the Parsons Green train bomber in the bag the very next day. They can track football hooligans in real time on match days.
    Right. Because they know what they're looking for, when they're looking for it and where they're looking for it.

    It was probably several weeks, if not 2-3 months before they had enough information to know to even narrow the search down to these two guys.


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  • #142
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,098 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    arcticthistle wrote: »
    Well they had the Parsons Green train bomber in the bag the very next day. They can track football hooligans in real time on match days.


    Well it kinda helps when you know exactly when and where something happens if you want to track the suspect. In the skripal case they did not know either of these two pieces of information to any high degree of certainty.


  • #143
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Some people will believe literally anything so long as "their side" tells them to.

    It's funny after months of "where is the video evidence? The UK is full of cameras so if this was Russia they would have video evidence" just how predictable it was that the line would immediately change to "the video evidence is fake because of course!" though.

    The goalposts have moved out of the country at this stage.


  • #144
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    If they were genuine GRU professionals they would have entered the UK from another EU country, the list is endless, the Channel tunnel, France, Netherlands, Belgium, the Rep of Ireland, Northern Ireland, flying to London from Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania would raise little suspicion with millions from those countries resident in the UK. No, these two "hit men" :D entered the UK from ....... Moscow!!
    This stuff is even funnier than Austin Powers!

    How do you know this?


  • #145
    arcticthistle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭arcticthistle


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Well it kinda helps when you know exactly when and where something happens if you want to track the suspect. In the skripal case they did not know either of these two pieces of information to any high degree of certainty.

    Anyway, did you look at the 2 photos of the guys arriving at Gatwick? Maybe you could post them up here.


  • #146
    2smiggy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,904 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    Does not matter about flying from in or out of the EU, I think all non EU citizens have their passports scanned, at least this is what happens me at any country outside of the EU.

    They were very quick to blame Russia for the attacks, so I presume they would have started looking at Russian passports coming in and out of the UK, starting with London Airports. Seems logical.


  • #147
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,098 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    arcticthistle wrote: »
    Anyway, did you look at the 2 photos of the guys arriving at Gatwick? Maybe you could post them up here.


    they are available on the BBC. everybody who wants to see them has already seen them. what do you think is significant about them?


  • #148
    2smiggy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,904 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    theimpossiblephoto.jpg


  • #149
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,098 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2smiggy wrote: »
    Does not matter about flying from in or out of the EU, I think all non EU citizens have their passports scanned, at least this is what happens me at any country outside of the EU.

    They were very quick to blame Russia for the attacks, so I presume they would have started looking at Russian passports coming in and out of the UK, starting with London Airports. Seems logical.


    and what? they had no idea who they were looking for. They had no idea when they arrived in the country. It was only after they had trawled through the CCTV that they had an idea who they were looking for.


  • #150
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    2smiggy wrote: »
    Does not matter about flying from in or out of the EU, I think all non EU citizens have their passports scanned, at least this is what happens me at any country outside of the EU.

    They were very quick to blame Russia for the attacks, so I presume they would have started looking at Russian passports coming in and out of the UK, starting with London Airports. Seems logical.


    The most abused sentence in the English language these days


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  • #151
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    2smiggy wrote: »
    theimpossiblephoto.jpg

    The timestamp is interesting how likely they were walking through the same space down to the second? Seems a big fail on whoever uploaded these images?

    These could be two different walkthroughs, have to know where this in the airport?


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