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What are the left parties' unique selling points?

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Comments

  • #32
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    Fine Gael have been in government For the past 9 years and advocated for, and are

    Pro abortion
    Pro LGBT
    Strong supporters of the EU and are critical of the UK’s Brexit process
    Have kept keeping Ireland’s income tax levels high so that middle income earners subsidise those outside that bracket - redistribution of wealth
    Consumption/sales tax at 23% - only recently reduced to 21%. Excise, carbon taxes Etc usually increase with each budget
    Of €77 billion spent in 2019, €20.9 billion was spent on social protection and €17.5 on the public health system https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2019/
    That's almost 50% of government spending on a health system that is not fit for purpose and a generous social welfare system. No real effort to tackle lifer welfare cases. An additional €4 billion was spent on public housing.
    Less than €2 billion allocated to the Gardaí in 2019
    Slave wages paid to military personnel
    Direct Provision system that accommodates economic migrants yet leaves many genuine asylum seekers in limbo - no effort to return those Asylum seekers Who arrived here from "safe" countries to the first safe country that they arrived in
    Crime levels that are just ignored. A penal system that's a joke. The punishment is not commensurate with the crime in so many cases.

    I don't see any right wing parties except for the lunatics on the fringes who will not be taken seriously by an electorate. I just don't see how Fine Gael can be classed as right wing - they're just as populist as the rest and have continued the trend of taxing labour to fund social programs.

    None of what you outline is in anyway out of the ordinary for mainstream centre-right Christian Democrat parties in Europe.


  • #33
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    View wrote: »
    None of what you outline is in anyway out of the ordinary for mainstream centre-right Christian Democrat parties in Europe.

    The thing is it sums up how meaningless the labels "left" and "right" wing are. The same for labels such as neo liberalism etc. They tend to be used by certain people as insults. In Ireland remember our some of our supposedly hard left wing parties oppose a wealth tax ie the property tax being introduced by what they call a right wing party. On an international front all Irish parties would be considered left wing if not hard left in the USA even when compared to the Democrats economicly.

    If you want we talk about a party talk about their policies/what they actually do when in government. Given the nature of the Irish voting system you need a relatively broad range of supports across the electorate to get into power and even then you will probably end up in a coalition. This causes labels to go out the window as parties can take a number of policy decisions that would be contradictory under a simple left right divide. The property tax and water charges being prime examples.

    Maybe in countries like the UK and the USA where a first past the Post voting system is used the labels might be more appropriate but even then look at last UK election.


  • #34
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    PeadarCo wrote:
    The thing is it sums up how meaningless the labels "left" and "right" wing are. The same for labels such as neo liberalism etc. They tend to be used by certain people as insults. In Ireland remember our some of our supposedly hard left wing parties oppose a wealth tax ie the property tax being introduced by what they call a right wing party. On an international front all Irish parties would be considered left wing if not hard left in the USA even when compared to the Democrats economicly.


    Neoliberalism isn't an insulting term, it's exactly what the ideology is called, and has been for a couple of centuries, and particularly from more left leaning commentators over the last few decades. The confusing element of this is that both traditional left and right leaning parties have been engaging in this ideology, particularly economically, over the last few decades, this is most evident in the UK and the us, I. E. The political left has shafted it's base, and are now lost, they've no clue what they stand for, no real clue what's going on, or what to do


  • #35
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Neoliberalism isn't an insulting term, it's exactly what the ideology is called, and has been for a couple of centuries, and particularly from more left leaning commentators over the last few decades. The confusing element of this is that both traditional left and right leaning parties have been engaging in this ideology, particularly economically, over the last few decades, this is most evident in the UK and the us, I. E. The political left has shafted it's base, and are now lost, they've no clue what they stand for, no real clue what's going on, or what to do

    Here's the thing what does it actually mean? What are the exact set of policies you would expect from a neo liberal politician? Is a neo Liberal party in Ireland the same as the UK or USA? I would find that doubtful given the very different voting systems, political cultures and policies of the major parties.

    Depending on the particular political persuasion of a person label's such as left wing, right wing, communist, neo liberal, socialist etc are used as insults. Your entire posts sums up my point. Depending on what the readers idea of neo liberal, is their view of left wing andright wing is, two different readers could take two very different messages from your post. Even for me I don't really understand what you are trying to say. It just sounds like a bunch of labels that appears to be a long winded way of saying you don't like the status quo for some unspecified reason.

    A perfect example is SF calling themselves a left wing party which for them means a party that looks after the less well off in society while at the same time opposing a tax on property during the middle of a housing crisis. Similarly for parties like PBP etc. Again FG and FF are supposed to be right wing while at the same time the parties have ensured we have one of the most redistributive income tax systems in the OECD with relatively high taxes on high earners and low to non existant income tax on the lowest of earners. Both points for me illustrate the impact of the Irish voting system and the views of the electorate more than any label assigned to a parties ideology.

    Which to brings it back to the OPs point it doesn't matter if SF appeal to other "left of center" party or whatever other label you give another party. It about appealing to a wider range of the electorate which will probably mean changing some policies some of which will be contradictory if viewed through a black and white/ left right lense.


  • #36
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Greens are basically FG on push bikes. A party for those comfortable enough to stomach green taxes and levies.

    Its a nice soundbyte, but divorced from reality. The Green Party is a center left party in terms of policy and values. Far left populists like to attack the Greens becasue the Greens are willing to recognise reality and compromise to get their policies implemented while the far left sit in irrelevant purity.


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  • #37
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Its a nice soundbyte, but divorced from reality. The Green Party is a center left party in terms of policy and values. Far left populists like to attack the Greens becasue the Greens are willing to recognise reality and compromise to get their policies implemented while the far left sit in irrelevant purity.

    id argue that, my suspicions are, underneath it all, their economic advisors are neoclassical, but maybe you can clarify this for me?


  • #38
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    id argue that, my suspicions are, underneath it all, their economic advisors are neoclassical, but maybe you can clarify this for me?

    I'm not entirely clear what you mean by neoclassical. Perhaps you could outline your view on it?

    Green Party policy is member driven. The party has a policy council that can amend any aspect of party policy, each constituency group gets one vote, as do affiliated groups such as the Young Greens.

    The Green Party favours state intervention in the economy, higher taxes both to raise the revenue needed to fund universal services and to change behaviour, and a Universal Basic Income to replace the existing social welfare system to provide a social floor below which no-one will fall.


  • #39
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,422 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Kilboor wrote: »
    Fine Gael are definitely socially left compared to even 20 years ago.

    Economically they are centre right, I'd rather they were more right with their economic policies, not because I agree with it but because their current economic policies don't benefit the "lower middle class" or those who are trying to work full time and afford to buy/rent a house without any government support.

    You could say that about FF as well.


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