The "journalist"

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I'm judging the Irish team differently from other teams because I think we are well behind them at the moment. Not applying different metrics and standards or anything, just not very impressed by last 2 years as regards prospects for winning meaningful tournaments. I was in Twickenham in the snow in 2018 grand slam and was genuinely excited about what the following few years would bring but have not seen anything since to say we are at the races. Leinster having 2 full teams demolishing everything in sight in a poor pro14 where the weakest munster team in pro era are realistically still their biggest threat does not make anything rosy. I just don't think we've enough players that are going to be exceptional internationals to truly compete. Lack of quality at hooker, prop (apart from furlong), scrum half and out half in near future my biggest worries if you want specifics.
Project players route is effectively closed now. Lowe will likely be the last beneficiary. The fact we've used it to fast track the likes of Michael Bent, Quinn Roux, Jean Kleyn in recent years shows we are happy to invest in players that wouldn't be within an asses roar of their own national teams we want to compete with shows we don't have the depth and irfu know it. I'd include Lowe in that too actually, great player but was never going to be an all black winger.
Aki and stander have been successes.

If you are judging them differently than you shouldn’t be comparing them. We aren’t well behind them, the other haven’t been that good either, This is how I know this is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction. England had a spell in 2018 worse than what we had in 2019 yet came back the following year, it happens in sport. Ireland is different here because we are at the start of a new cycle where we need to start from scratch and that’s what Farrell is doing. He is deconstructing us and then going to evolve us bit by bit and will take time and because of that there will be some pot holes, our performance in Twickenham, England’s performance in Paris, France’s performance in Edinburgh etc it happens and at this point comparing teams is futile as everyone is rebuilding in their own way but come let’s say the end of next year we will have a better idea about where we stand.

We literally have been competing with the players we have, ive never seen such an overblown overreaction in my life. If you are worried you should stop worrying and start watching the provinces and see the future isn’t actually that bleak at all. Hooker you have Ronan Kelleher who will be an incredible player he just needs more experience but will come good plus guys will come through as we go. At prop you already have guys like O’Toole,Porter, along with players like Jack Boyle, Michael Milne and Clarkson who look like big prospects going forward and again more will come through as we go. Scrum half you have Casey who is probably the best prospect we have had at 9 in as long as I can think of and at 10 you already have Harry Byrne and Ben Healy who are big prospects. Bent,Kleyn,Roux aren’t really good enough for us either, they were just Schmidt players that did what Schmidt wanted but once he left we saw none of these players again. Lowe always had potential to be a AB winger, the big reason he left is he has arteritis in his hands (sometimes so extreme he would struggle to get out of bed at times) and because of that may not be in a position to come up North and player rugby at the end of his AB career like others as his time in rugby might not be as long as he hoped.

Niallof9 wrote: »

Exactly and people disparage others who hold this view. As if it didn't actually happen or something. If we are saying Irish rugby is now about being serial winners then its not an ideal situation.

I do hope if October goes tits up (i hope to god it doesn't) we can finally all have an adult conversation about it. Lets hope Farrell selects the likes of Doris,Kelleher, and the like and lets us play. then we can't complain really. i certainly will give him time if he throws out the status quo. But having people talk about detail in regards to Lowe on the Ireland thread is a head scratcher.

There is no issue whatsoever having different view points, just expect people to take exception when there isn’t much basis for some of it. I mean things aren’t great but saying it’s the worst things have been in 20 years considering we are 4th in the world and have a very realistic chance of becoming 6N champs despite still being in transition is a little bit of an exaduration don’t you think?

It’s not about getting all the good young players playing, it’s about building a 26 man squad or so of players Farrell trusts to perform and making it so if one guy gets injured the next guy can step up, that’s what happened for Ireland in 2018 and for SA & England and even to an extent Wales in 2019. If we are talking about 4 years I’m not concerned as I know what Farrell is doing will benefit us in the long run but in the mean time he needs to deconstruct the team and it could take time to take all the pieces apart and put them back together.

Niallof9 wrote: »

but Doris, Henderson, Ryan, Larmour, Leavy, Kelliher, Furlong, Porter, Stander are elite talent (like say in a Lions conversation)

Out of those listed, only those 3 are realistically in lions contention, even then I don't think Stander will get in.

Doris is too young, Henderson over rated he's been around for years at this stage and only shows flashes of his potential. Porter's good but I think the english TH's are better. Larmour......I'm undecided He has speed and dancing feet but I less sure of how high his ceiling is after his breakthrough two seasons ago.

Niallof9 wrote: »

and expect others to take issues when we've seen 5 or 6 games now where Irish rugby has been bullied. And that's even before we can get to the mess with Munster. People can be worried. I'm willing to see how October fares.

We aren't winning the Six Nations this year would be my guess. And i have yet to be convinced by what Farrell is doing.

This is still a golden period for Ireland but thats the catch. We can no longer settle for just ok, or its grand etc. The players themselves have rejected this mentality. So discussions around the pro 14 are apt imo.

We have been bullied because we are playing dumb rugby against these teams, the vast majority of this team in 2018 were never getting bullied yet in 2019 something changed. You don’t see the Scots or Welsh get bullied like Ireland have so I don’t think size is really a valid excuse.

We have every chance, it comes down to how we play on the day. It also comes down to what happens in Rome for England as that will determine what we need in Paris.

My betting is you won’t hear a thing about the pro14 next season when the pro14 teams inevitably get back to dominating European rugby as per usual.