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NFL Protest Discussion

13567…14

Comments

  • #62
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Eagles not going to the White House, Trump not hosting Eagles (depending on your view).
    Instead Trump will go full political with it and listen to a band/anthem.
    You'd kinda like/expect the President to host both sides, work on the issue, come forward with a solution/agreement/compromise.......but no, this idiot uses it for his own gain. Long 2.5yrs until he's out of office, at the earliest.


  • #63
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I don't think the vast majority of people think it is illegal. I'm fairly sure they are within their rights to do it (dependent on what exactly is in the CBA - though that still wouldn't make it "illegal").

    It is utterly cowardly though.

    I would disagree a vast majority think its illegal and confuse what constitutional rights means. Well in the US anyways. Both sides of the political fence are guilty of this here.

    It doesn't matter what our view is on it and as I said before I think the NFL should be ashamed of themselves but they are within their legal rights to do what they are doing and that is the key here. Your company is not legally bound to allow you to exercise your constitutional rights in the workplace. That was my point.


  • #64
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    I would disagree a vast majority think its illegal and confuse what constitutional rights means. Well in the US anyways. Both sides of the political fence are guilty of this here.

    It doesn't matter what our view is on it and as I said before I think the NFL should be ashamed of themselves but they are within their legal rights to do what they are doing and that is the key here. Your company is not legally bound to allow you to exercise your constitutional rights in the workplace. That was my point.

    I still think a minority of the outcry/commentary has been about their legal right to do so though. It's just ****ty, ****ty PR and a cowardly move.

    I would agree that a lot of people spout out about the first amendment etc, though I think they use it more as a symbolic issue than a legal argument - i.e. professing patriotism while stomping (legally) on the very things that define America because you find them inconvenient. Though maybe I am incorrect on that. From my perspective at least the argument shouldn't be focused on spurious arguments about legality, not least because it allows a defence that focuses only the legal issues rather than the motivation behind it.


  • #65
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    [font=Roboto, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif]Football is a team sport, both on and off the field. Most of the Eagles players didn't want to come anyway. You win as a team, you lose as a team. You go to the White House as a team or you don't go as a team. What's the big deal? I guess the big deal is Trump simply denied the players that weren't coming a platform to make a statement that we all know our lovely media would use primarily as an opportunity to focus on the players that chose not to come and to further bash Trump. He denied them that. Our media has been fuming over it.  I love it![/font]

    [font=Roboto, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif]And I'm an Eagles fan (my team in the NFC)... and I live an hour and a half north of Philly.  Even have a piece of Veteran's stadium turf and two stadium chairs from when they tore it down.  I've been to numerous games... but that doesn't change my view on the player protest nonsense.[/font]

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #66
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    One of my fav Onion articles

    'I just wish nfl players could find a way to protest without starting a national dialogue'

    https://www.theonion.com/i-just-wish-nfl-players-could-find-a-way-to-protest-wit-1819585036


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  • #67
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    eagle eye wrote: »
    No use responding to everything but this piece is important.

    There are millions of Americans unhappy with kneeling who don't have agendas. You seem to think that a lot of people are more intelligent than they actually are.

    There are many African-Americans that are not happy about the kneeling but who are concerned about police shootings.

    Just as an aside, if you are going to walk away from football over political/social issues I pity you. Sport is supposed to be an escape from all that stuff. Stop following the social side of the sport and stick with the football.

    I watch the game because I love it. It's a sport and it's fun. I don't read TMZ or any of the other crap magazines which talk about off the field. Unfortunately these days you get to hear things even though you do your best to avoid it but even then I try my best to ignore it.

    I'm not turning my back on watching the sport, I'm just cancelling my gamepass subscription as soon as that window opens and watching on streams for the season.

    The millions of Americans unhappy with it who don't have agendas don't have a reason to be unhappy with it, as it is entirely enshrined and protected in the first amendment and the US flag code. Yet the NFL has sided with them because Trump said so... and I get that they would have been trying to extend an olive branch, but it was done an entirely cowardly manner.

    And as is to be expected with Trump, that olive branch has been thrown right back in their face as only days after this he goes and cancels the Eagles' White House visit in as divisive a manner as possible.
    "The Philadelphia Eagles are unable to come to the White House with their full team to be celebrated tomorrow," Trump said in a statement. "They disagree with their President because he insists that they proudly stand for the National Anthem, hand on heart, in honor of the great men and women of our military and the people of our country. The Eagles wanted to send a smaller delegation, but the 1,000 fans planning to attend the event deserve better."

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1003956743133650944

    That's the thing - Trump WANTS this kind of division and goes looking for it almost every single day in one way or another. As the NFL are finding out, currying favour with him just leads to getting your face spat in... which they, and just about everyone, should know is the inevitable outcome, time and again.


  • #68
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    For all the people upset about the kneeling, this is your patriotic leader realizing he doesn’t know the words to God Bless America. It’s beyond embarrassing at this stage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozz7K-QNF4Q


  • #69
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    And lo-and-behold, the propaganda machine is already churning out the lies:

    zach-ertz-0d2d93149892c236.jpg

    Fox News falsely implies praying Eagles were protesting, and the players aren't having it
    As the anchor delivers the story, images of Eagles players are shown on screen. The first three photos are of players (Zach Ertz, Corey Clement and Jordan Matthews) kneeling — but they’re praying before games, not kneeling during the national anthem. The fourth is of Malcolm Jenkins and Rodney McLeod raising their fists during the national anthem, while Chris Long puts his arm around Jenkins.

    Ertz and Long responded on their personal Twitter accounts and accused the outlet of pushing the agenda of the president with false information.

    https://twitter.com/ZERTZ_86/status/1003970728008519680

    https://twitter.com/JOEL9ONE/status/1003990054505730048


  • #70
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Billy86 wrote: »
    And lo-and-behold, the propaganda machine is already churning out the lies:

    zach-ertz-0d2d93149892c236.jpg

    Fox News falsely implies praying Eagles were protesting, and the players aren't having it
    As the anchor delivers the story, images of Eagles players are shown on screen. The first three photos are of players (Zach Ertz, Corey Clement and Jordan Matthews) kneeling — but they’re praying before games, not kneeling during the national anthem. The fourth is of Malcolm Jenkins and Rodney McLeod raising their fists during the national anthem, while Chris Long puts his arm around Jenkins.

    Ertz and Long responded on their personal Twitter accounts and accused the outlet of pushing the agenda of the president with false information.

    https://twitter.com/ZERTZ_86/status/1003970728008519680

    https://twitter.com/JOEL9ONE/status/1003990054505730048

    Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

    I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #71
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Hazys wrote:
    For all the people upset about the kneeling, this is your patriotic leader realizing he doesn’t know the words to God Bless America. It’s beyond embarrassing at this stage.

    Came here to post that.

    Also, there was a video of a white baseball player wearing just a pair of y fronts dancing in a spray of champagne when they won a divisional championship game last year. The y fronts were a mock up of the US flag.

    No issue there in terms of disrespecting the flag but the footballers are being targeted.


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  • #72
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

    I understand there were some 70 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team invited.  Fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?
    I hadn't seen their apology, but this kind of stuff is so commonplace for them and there is zero chance they thought Zach Ertz was lined up for the anthem, in the red zone, facing away from the pitch. They got caught with their pants down on a completely intentional lie (again).

    There is a team represented - by those attending. Except Trump is such an insanely insecure and thin-skinned little snowflake that he decided to uninvite everyone, dividing the US public further in the process. If this were not the case, he would have allowed the players who did want to go, to go. But as always, all he wants to do at any given opportunity is cause division among Americans - and this season will be no different when it comes to players staying in the locker room. Can't wait to see the Trump supporters all of a sudden take huge issue with that come August/September, and the NFL will in a roundabout way deserve it for their cowardice.


  • #73
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump.

    Then state that as the reason for cancelling it. Don't state that its because the Eagles disagree you should have to stand for the anthem.

    It is worth bearing in mind however that the protests started before Trump and despite his pathetic attempts to make it entirely about him, it isn't. I have difficulty thinking the NFL's response wasn't entirely about Trump however.


  • #74
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

    .

    Im sorry but FOX apologies mean fook all to anyone. They got caught out like they always do and always have to eat humble pie after the fact. The sad state of affairs of US Networks and their political drivel. Had they reported correctly in the first place they wouldn't have to apologize. Usual Nonsense from a US network.
    I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump

    Clearly a Trump fan I am betting. Patriots didn't send a full team and I would wager the same amount of guys that didn't show with the Patriots was the same amount as the Eagles. Tom Brady didn't even show up. Patriots in 2015 sent all players and staff. In 2017 only sent 47 Players and Coaches. Did Trump cancel on them? Nope. Typical Trump stirring the political Pot to make a sad statement. So this is more on Trump. Doesn't matter what your political agenda is here you cannot defend Trump for what he did. Nonsense.


  • #75
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Fox News immediately issued and apology for the kneeling mistake with the Eagles.  You forgot to mention that.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/06/05/fox-news-shows-eagles-kneeling-in-a-story-about-canceled-white-house-trip-they-were-praying/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de1232d482ac

    .

    Im sorry but FOX apologies mean fook all to anyone. They got caught out like they always do and always have to eat humble pie after the fact. The sad state of affairs of US Networks and their political drivel. Had they reported correctly in the first place they wouldn't have to apologize. Usual Nonsense from a US network.
    I understand there were some 81 players/coaches/etc from the Eagles team expected to come and the secret service worked on them all getting access to the president..  In the end fewer than 10 were going to show up at the White House.  Why bother having it, then, when there is no 'team' represented?  This is more on the Eagles than Trump

    Clearly a Trump fan I am betting. Patriots didn't send a full team and I would wager the same amount of guys that didn't show with the Patriots was the same amount as the Eagles. Tom Brady didn't even show up. Patriots in 2015 sent all players and staff. In 2017 only sent 47 Players and Coaches. Did Trump cancel on them? Nope. Typical Trump stirring the political Pot to make a sad statement. So this is more on Trump. Doesn't matter what your political agenda is here you cannot defend Trump for what he did. Nonsense.
    It's now being reported by the NFL Network that only Nick Foles was guaranteed to show... and possible two other players, at most.  That's not a TEAM... that's NONSENSE!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #76
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Just goes to show what a snowflake Trump is and how unpopular he is in the league, that almost nobody on a team that did not have a single kneeling player wanted to be near him, and just as predictable he didn't have the courage to come out and say "basically none of them want to meet me".

    And don't forget, this is the guy the owners sided with over their own players and the US constitution just two weeks back.


  • #77
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The way that Fox News and trump with those untrue stories and statements just show you how thin skinned and narsasistic Donald trump is. Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

    Btw as an eagles fan, no they didn't abandon the fans by their actions. Also the fact trump said they "disagreed with their president" was laughable. Oh how dare these players disagree with the president.

    Also, the reason kapernick and then other players kneel is because a former member of the us military who was trying to get on an NFL team as a long snapper suggested that kneeling would be more appropriate than sitting on the bench which is what was happening initially.

    1. No eagles player in the regular or post season knelt during the anthem.
    2. No player "escaped to the locker room"


  • #78
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    The way that Fox News and trump with those untrue stories and statements just show you how thin skinned and narsasistic Donald trump is. Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

    Btw as an eagles fan, no they didn't abandon the fans by their actions. Also the fact trump said they "disagreed with their president" was laughable. Oh how dare these players disagree with the president.

    Also, the reason kapernick and then other players kneel is because a former member of the us military who was trying to get on an NFL team as a long snapper suggested that kneeling would be more appropriate than sitting on the bench which is what was happening initially.

    1. No eagles player in the regular or post season knelt during the anthem.
    2. No player "escaped to the locker room"
    I live in Eagles country (half way between Philadelphia and New York City but in PA). Too many Eagles fans, some Giants fans, and almost no Jets fans.  We even get a free cup of coffee at all the Dunkin Donuts here the day after an Eagles win. Let me tell you... A lot of their fans DO feel the Eagles disrespected many of their fans beliefs by shunning a White House visit (and living near Amish country... shunning is never considered a good thing).

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #79
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I live in Eagles country (half way between Philadelphia and New York City but in PA). Too many Eagles fans, some Giants fans, and almost no Jets fans.  We even get a free cup of coffee at all the Dunkin Donuts here the day after an Eagles win. Let me tell you... A lot of their fans DO feel the Eagles disrespected many of their fans beliefs by shunning a White House visit (and living near Amish country... shunning is never considered a good thing).

    Why do people have to be forced to respect trump?. He doesn't respect them.


  • #80
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It's now being reported by the NFL Network that only Nick Foles was guaranteed to show... and possible two other players, at most.  That's not a TEAM... that's NONSENSE!

    What is nonsense is the President of the United States of America acting like a big child. As already pointed out the Patriots didnt fully attend in 2017. Acting like a child is not helpful to anyone. And your posts are as bad as Fox news without the full count you have said "Foles and possible two other players. Working off hear say I see.
    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

    They did though

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/sports/-new-england-patriots-visit-white-house-donald-trump.html


  • #81
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,437 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    What is nonsense is the President of the United States of America acting like a big child. As already pointed out the Patriots didnt fully attend in 2017. Acting like a child is not helpful to anyone. And your posts are as bad as Fox news without the full count you have said "Foles and possible two other players. Working off hear say I see.



    They did though

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/sports/-new-england-patriots-visit-white-house-donald-trump.html

    So tom Brady was there then ? Funny because I remembering him not being there because of family business.


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  • #82
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So tom Brady was there then ? Funny because I remembering him not being there because of family business.

    Tom Brady didn't go. Most of the rest of the team did well I say most many players decided not to go


  • #83
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    TOss Sweep wrote:
    They did though

    TOss Sweep wrote:
    Tom Brady didn't go. Most of the rest of the team did well I say most many players decided not to go

    Which is it?


  • #84
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Which is it?

    What are you banging on about? Tom Brady is not the whole team.

    I misread itssoeasy but thanks for joining in to point that out with your first post in the American Football Forum. Welcome by the way.


  • #85
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

    I misread what you said my apologies. I thought you said they all didnt go.


  • #86
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    TOss Sweep wrote:
    I misread itssoeasy but thanks for joining in to point that out with your first post in the American Football Forum. Welcome by the way.

    Wow. Way to make people feel welcome. :):)

    It's also my second post Columbo. Why not read my first and lose the rag over that one as well. ;)


  • #87
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Wow. Way to make people feel welcome. :):)

    It's also my second post Columbo. Why not read my first and lose the rag over that one as well. ;)

    Lose the rag? :pac:


  • #88
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,487 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Here we go with the political bull. I'm out, I want to talk about American football. That's the only reason I come to the American football forum.


  • #89
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Here we go with the political bull. I'm out, I want to talk about American football. That's the only reason I come to the American football forum.

    Kind of an odd choice to open a thread solely about the protests then.


  • #90
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Here we go with the political bull. I'm out, I want to talk about American football. That's the only reason I come to the American football forum.

    Are you out of the whole forum or just this thread? But this thread was always going to involve politics how could it not? Mind boggling.


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  • #91
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    It's now being reported by the NFL Network that only Nick Foles was guaranteed to show... and possible two other players, at most.  That's not a TEAM... that's NONSENSE!

    What is nonsense is the President of the United States of America acting like a big child. As already pointed out the Patriots didnt fully attend in 2017. Acting like a child is not helpful to anyone. And your posts are as bad as Fox news without the full count you have said "Foles and possible two other players.  Working off hear say I see.
    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

    They did though

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/sports/-new-england-patriots-visit-white-house-donald-trump.html
    No.

    http://www.newsweek.com/fewer-10-eagles-visiting-white-house-may-have-just-been-nick-foles-report-961960

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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