2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

#014917 · 24-07-2020 5:10pm

From the layout and wording, I'm guessing what the "effecitve immediately" refers to, is immediately after passing of the bill. Although I'd happy to be wrong. There's no harm in applying now regardless. They may automatically adjust your approval, or worst case cancel and reapply.

Duke of Url · 24-07-2020 5:12pm

#014917 wrote: »

From the layout and wording, I'm guessing what the "effecitve immediately" refers to, is immediately after passing of the bill. Although I'd happy to be wrong. There's no harm in applying now regardless. They may automatically adjust your approval, or worst case cancel and reapply.

There is not excuses for this **** up

Paremon · 24-07-2020 5:52pm

Paremon wrote: »

Revenue Paye staff say it's not immediately effective & that the bill still needs to be passed in the Dail next week before Revenue then get details of how it will work.

Revenue's advice is confirmed in the same gov.ie publication but the wording of effective "immediately" could be better (eg "effective immediately provided the Bill is passed").

The Stimulus Plan includes a number of fiscal measures which have been set out in the Financial Provisions (Covid-19) (No.2) Bill 2020, due to be published shortly and to be considered by the Oireachtas next week.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/946d8-minister-donohoe-announces-details-of-tax-measures-contained-in-the-july-stimulus-plan/

#014917 · 24-07-2020 7:03pm

Proposed bill has been posted, stating a

qualifying period beginning on 23 July 2020 and ending on 31 December 2020

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/f73cc-finance-bill-2020/

IANAL, but it seems to me the change will be due to the bill being passed and being backdated to cover contracts signed or draw downs from yesterday onwards. I'd love to hear from someone who's more knowledgable on the legal aspect here.

heldel00 · 24-07-2020 7:27pm

Sister signed contract 3weeks ago, developer has taken his portion of HTB but she actually hasn't drawn down her mortgage. Any hope for her do ye think?

Duke of Url · 24-07-2020 7:31pm

#014917 wrote: »

Proposed bill has been posted, stating a

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/f73cc-finance-bill-2020/

IANAL, but it seems to me the change will be due to the bill being passed and being backdated to cover contracts signed or draw downs from yesterday onwards. I'd love to hear from someone who's more knowledgable on the legal aspect here.

Section 8 amends section 477C of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997. That section provides income tax relief to assist first-time buyers with obtaining the deposit required to purchase or build their first home. The amendment provides increased relief for the Help to Buy scheme to the lesser of (i) €30,000 (up from €20,000) or (ii) 10 per cent (up from 5 per cent) of the purchase price of the new home or of the completion value of the property in the case of self builds or (iii) the amount of Income Tax and DIRT paid over the four years prior to making the application. This enhanced relief is only available for the period from 23 July 2020 to 31 December 2020. From 1 January 2021, the Help to Buy relief reverts back to the pre 23 July 2020 position.

Couch Potatoette · 24-07-2020 7:43pm

I know it’s frustrating for people who have just received htb and missed out on this but it’s not going to benefit many buyers at all. Have a look at @crazyhouseprices on Instagram where there’s a section in their highlights already showing new builds that went up by 10 grand over night. The only people this is going to help is builders.

Duke of Url · 24-07-2020 7:47pm

Couch Potatoette wrote: »

I know it’s frustrating for people who have just received htb and missed out on this but it’s not going to benefit many buyers at all. Have a look at @crazyhouseprices on Instagram where there’s a section in their highlights already showing new builds that went up by 10 grand over night. The only people this is going to help is builders.

I claimed on Monday this week but the venders solicitor hasn’t taken it yet and is due to on next Tuesday . I drew down from the bank today which arrives to my solicitor on next Monday .

Where do I stand with this as it’s clearly showing in the bill it came into effect on the 23rd

islander35 · 24-07-2020 8:17pm

Just wondering if anyone has cancelled their application today (not cancelled a claim) and reapplied? Hesitant to cancel my application just in case. Still showing I am eligible for max €20000 relief. Thanks.

8-10 · 24-07-2020 8:17pm

islander35 wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone has cancelled their application today (not cancelled a claim) and reapplied? Hesitant to cancel my application just in case. Still showing I am eligible for max €20000 relief. Thanks.

Yes I did. Got approval instantly but still saying 20k max

islander35 · 24-07-2020 8:21pm

8-10 wrote: »

Yes I did. Got approval instantly but still saying 20k max

Thank you for the reply. I’ll probably try on Monday, maybe Revenue haven’t put it on their systems yet.

Sheeps · 24-07-2020 8:48pm

Revenue will take some time to update the HTB app on the myaccount portal. Usually Revenue hear about these things at the same time we do.

Duke of Url · 24-07-2020 8:51pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Revenue will take some time to update the HTB app on the myaccount portal. Usually Revenue hear about these things at the same time we do.

I wonder how they will back date it to yesterday with people who claimed but the vender hasn’t received the money.

Sheeps · 24-07-2020 9:00pm

Duke of Url wrote: »

I wonder how they will back date it to yesterday with people who claimed but the vender hasn’t received the money.

There are three scenarios.

1. People who are not yet approved or who are approved but who have not yet signed a contract or purchased a home.

2. People who have signed a contract after 23rd

3. People who have signed a contract before the 23rd

Group 1 will likely have their HTB amount increased or recalculated.
Group 2 are the more difficult group because they would be entitled to the €30k so if the €20k has been drawn down by the developer then maybe they will be entitled to the full sum.
Group 3 who wont be entitled to anything.

arelyn · 24-07-2020 9:37pm

Hello guys, what's the implication of the increment of the help to buy scheme from 5% to 10%..I am approved for 5% before now but due to sign contract by next week, can someone point me in the right direction

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/help-buy-scheme-first-time-buyers.html

Graham · 24-07-2020 9:41pm

Mod Note

arelyn, I've moved your post to the dedicated HTB thread.

Paremon · 24-07-2020 11:33pm

Sheeps wrote: »

There are three scenarios.

1. People who are not yet approved or who are approved but who have not yet signed a contract or purchased a home.

2. People who have signed a contract after 23rd

3. People who have signed a contract before the 23rd

Group 1 will likely have their HTB amount increased or recalculated.
Group 2 are the more difficult group because they would be entitled to the €30k so if the €20k has been drawn down by the developer then maybe they will be entitled to the full sum.
Group 3 who wont be entitled to anything.

Perhaps, tbc when the bill is passed & Revenue get/give clarify of how it will work.

For group 3 technically an amended contract (to stipulate that the developer's can get up to 30k of the deposit via HTB, instead of 20k) should suffice here I would have imagined. Ie just get the solicitors to write up an amended contract due to the amended HTB scheme, get both sides to sign & either cancel the existing HTB claim & resubmit a new claim with the amended contract or just amend the existing HTB claim. Seems doable & straight forward.

If an amended contract wasn't acceptable for Revenue then both solicitors could agree to nullify the existing contract under the explicit agreement that a new contract would be created & signed straight away in its place. Same thing effectively, provided some legal protection could be put in place to prevent either party from not following through (eg protection from the builder or buyer pulling out between the time the old & new contracts are nullified & signed respectively).

If the developer had already drawn down the 20k they could just be issued with the remaining 10k (or return the 20k to Revenue & be issued with 30k). Again, seems doable.

tglynn · 25-07-2020 1:20am

We are sale agreed. Signed contracts last week but we since moved to another house next door so need to sign more contacts next week some time. Build won't be completed until 2021. Where do we stand? At what point does the contractor claim the htb? After draw down or after contracts are signed? Everything crossed here this will work out well for us!

islander35 · 25-07-2020 8:36am

tglynn wrote: »

We are sale agreed. Signed contracts last week but we since moved to another house next door so need to sign more contacts next week some time. Build won't be completed until 2021. Where do we stand? At what point does the contractor claim the htb? After draw down or after contracts are signed? Everything crossed here this will work out well for us!

They can claim it after the contracts are signed.

Conrad83 · 25-07-2020 8:52am

islander35 wrote: »

They can claim it after the contracts are signed.

Just following on from this. We have contracts ready to sign and back to builders for them to sign and back to us to upload to revenue. Wasnt sure whether to sign or not but dont think it makes a difference re HTB and when it becomes effective (if not immediately). Hopefully by the time the contracts come back to us we will know more re HTB.

Febreeze · 25-07-2020 9:10am

Hi. Thank god I found this thread.

My partner and I are currently saving for our deposit. Should have close enough to 12k by Christmas, that's from me and my partner should have close enough to 10k himself but again, his out goings are more than mine so although he has a set amount saved each month, there wouldn't be any extras going into savings so he will he lucky to have around 7k. Our plan was to start looking for a house maybe next spring.

We would like to apply for the Help to Buy scheme but at a lost of how it works. If we applied now with only what we have saved, is that possible? Or do we need to have our 10% saved before we can apply? My parents have also offered to gift us a sum when the time comes.

cant26 · 25-07-2020 10:18am

Febreeze wrote: »

Hi. Thank god I found this thread.

My partner and I are currently saving for our deposit. Should have close enough to 12k by Christmas, that's from me and my partner should have close enough to 10k himself but again, his out goings are more than mine so although he has a set amount saved each month, there wouldn't be any extras going into savings so he will he lucky to have around 7k. Our plan was to start looking for a house maybe next spring.

We would like to apply for the Help to Buy scheme but at a lost of how it works. If we applied now with only what we have saved, is that possible? Or do we need to have our 10% saved before we can apply? My parents have also offered to gift us a sum when the time comes.

would you and/or your partner have paid 30k in income tax over the last four years not including this year?
If so you can apply straight away. Or at least from when revenue have decided the increased amount comes into force. The HTB is based on income tax paid so if you’ve only paid 15k in tax over the last four years that’s the max amount that will be available to you.
Have heard from here before if developers wanting the full deposit and closing the HTB at the end but the whole purpose of the scheme is to help FTB’s get their deposit.
Go on the HTB section of the revenue website and you will see what’s entailed. Its 30k or 10% on the max of a €300k property. Obviously if the property you are looking at is less than 300k it’s 10% of the property price.
I think you can start the application anytime but can’t redeem until a property is picked and booking deposit is down and contracts have been issued.

The Wordress · 25-07-2020 10:27am

I really wish they had extended this scheme to 2nd hand houses for 1st time buyers. Where I live, there are very few new housing estates coming to market. The ones that are, are in poor locations and have crap finishes. I would prefer to buy a 2nd hand house in a good location that needs a bit of work.

cant26 · 25-07-2020 10:36am

I totally agree. Also hearing how certain developers have already upped prices to match the increase makes it so obvious that the only real winners are the developers:(

fifth · 25-07-2020 10:58am

Ah, rats. I just drew down about ten days ago with the standard HTB. That extra cash could have come in handy.

arelyn · 25-07-2020 11:01am

cant26 wrote: »

would you and/or your partner have paid 30k in income tax over the last four years not including this year?
If so you can apply straight away. Or at least from when revenue have decided the increased amount comes into force. The HTB is based on income tax paid so if you’ve only paid 15k in tax over the last four years that’s the max amount that will be available to you.
Have heard from here before if developers wanting the full deposit and closing the HTB at the end but the whole purpose of the scheme is to help FTB’s get their deposit.
Go on the HTB section of the revenue website and you will see what’s entailed. Its 30k or 10% on the max of a €300k property. Obviously if the property you are looking at is less than 300k it’s 10% of the property price.
I think you can start the application anytime but can’t redeem until a property is picked and booking deposit is down and contracts have been issued.

What do you think in our case...myself and wife came into the country 2018 and are both working..Between us we have paid income tax that is slightly above 30k I guess it's about 31k

Do you think we can still avail of this new increment although we were approved for the initial 5%

awec · 25-07-2020 12:49pm

cant26 wrote: »

I totally agree. Also hearing how certain developers have already upped prices to match the increase makes it so obvious that the only real winners are the developers:(

The Wordress wrote: »

I really wish they had extended this scheme to 2nd hand houses for 1st time buyers. Where I live, there are very few new housing estates coming to market. The ones that are, are in poor locations and have crap finishes. I would prefer to buy a 2nd hand house in a good location that needs a bit of work.

The whole point of the scheme is to increase the supply of housing. Giving lump sums of taxpayer money to existing home owners is not going to do that.

Graham · 25-07-2020 1:15pm

Unfortunately that does mean that there are several counties that are effectively locked out of the HTB scheme as there are no new developments.

Lia_lia · 25-07-2020 1:20pm

We consider ourselves very lucky as we paid a despot for a new build on Wednesday, before this was announce. I’m sure they’ll increase the prices of the estate so great timing by us. Haven’t signed contracts yet but will be in the next few weeks hopefully. Haven’t applied for HTB yet, waiting for it to be updated.

The house is due to be finished by December but from what I hear they are rarely ready on time. Would we still be able to get the 10% if house isn’t ready till next year and they don’t extend the 10% after December?

islander35 · 25-07-2020 1:40pm

Febreeze wrote: »

Hi. Thank god I found this thread.

My partner and I are currently saving for our deposit. Should have close enough to 12k by Christmas, that's from me and my partner should have close enough to 10k himself but again, his out goings are more than mine so although he has a set amount saved each month, there wouldn't be any extras going into savings so he will he lucky to have around 7k. Our plan was to start looking for a house maybe next spring.

We would like to apply for the Help to Buy scheme but at a lost of how it works. If we applied now with only what we have saved, is that possible? Or do we need to have our 10% saved before we can apply? My parents have also offered to gift us a sum when the time comes.

Go to a broker and ask them to see if you are ready

2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

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