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Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    dar31 wrote: »
    During heifer development they need a higher pr feed to grow their frame. Lower pr will fatten them rather than grow them. At a certain stage in development over fat heifers will lay down some of this fat in the udder, displacing potential milk production in all future lactation.
    The udder doesn't necessarily get bigger, but the fat becomes part of the udders future development.
    Hope thats explained correctly.

    Thanks - that explains it well. Having barley dilute down the % protein wasn’t sitting right with me anyway. I’ll give the local merchant a shout on Monday about a heifer nut or something with 20%

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Mf310


    Did the DIY AI course this week , was nearly giving up on it after the 2nd day felt hopeless at it, it just seemed to come to me grand on the 3rd morning then and on the last day morning 4 I was flying it .. Happy out now was something iv wanted to do for a while and will make things handier at home being able to AI cows while the machine is washing and let them off with the whole herd.
    Just for the lads doing their AI themselves where did ye get your AI flasks and when would you go about ordering straws? I hear Sexed semen nearly has to be ordered around now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    Thanks - that explains it well. Having barley dilute down the % protein wasn’t sitting right with me anyway. I’ll give the local merchant a shout on Monday about a heifer nut or something with 20%

    you could add soya,to bring up the p , but we tried it 1 year and wasn't too impressed,

    ideally you need 2 sources of good p and fibre to utilize it


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Mf310 wrote: »
    Did the DIY AI course this week , was nearly giving up on it after the 2nd day felt hopeless at it, it just seemed to come to me grand on the 3rd morning then and on the last day morning 4 I was flying it .. Happy out now was something iv wanted to do for a while and will make things handier at home being able to AI cows while the machine is washing and let them off with the whole herd.
    Just for the lads doing their AI themselves where did ye get your AI flasks and when would you go about ordering straws? I hear Sexed semen nearly has to be ordered around now?

    Who did you do the course with?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭cosatron


    Mf310 wrote: »
    Did the DIY AI course this week , was nearly giving up on it after the 2nd day felt hopeless at it, it just seemed to come to me grand on the 3rd morning then and on the last day morning 4 I was flying it .. Happy out now was something iv wanted to do for a while and will make things handier at home being able to AI cows while the machine is washing and let them off with the whole herd.
    Just for the lads doing their AI themselves where did ye get your AI flasks and when would you go about ordering straws? I hear Sexed semen nearly has to be ordered around now?
    Munster ai for flask and we have a contract with them for nitrogen refill. If I was you I'd leave the sexed for a year or 2, just use conventional as it will take time for you to get into the hang of it and sexed semen is very fragile to handle and you need thaw flask with it


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    orm0nd wrote: »
    you could add soya,to bring up the p , but we tried it 1 year and wasn't too impressed,

    ideally you need 2 sources of good p and fibre to utilize it

    Thanks for that.

    I was mixing soya with beef nuts for other weanlings a few months back and they were leaving it in the trough. Mixing it with barley might help as they couldn’t push it aside so easily but I might just go with the higher % nut at this stage

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Mf310


    straight wrote: »
    Who did you do the course with?

    Did the course with Dunmasc genetics booked through macra skillnet


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Thanks for that.

    I was mixing soya with beef nuts for other weanlings a few months back and they were leaving it in the trough. Mixing it with barley might help as they couldn’t push it aside so easily but I might just go with the higher % nut at this stage

    Whats your silage like? no point spending money on high protein feed if your feeding high protein silage. Get silage tested first, you can then decide on how much to feed and at what protein levels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Mf310


    cosatron wrote: »
    Munster ai for flask and we have a contract with them for nitrogen refill. If I was you I'd leave the sexed for a year or 2, just use conventional as it will take time for you to get into the hang of it and sexed semen is very fragile to handle and you need thaw flask with it

    Thanks for that maybe you could be right although think if I can get it in at all should be able get sexed semen too? Fragile to handle in the thawing process but when its in the cow itd be the same as conventional really?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Dosed cows yesterday. One cow is passing a brown slime . I suppose she losing her calf?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭cosatron


    Mf310 wrote: »
    Thanks for that maybe you could be right although think if I can get it in at all should be able get sexed semen too? Fragile to handle in the thawing process but when its in the cow itd be the same as conventional really?
    What I found with DIY ai, I was nervous enough the first year and took a while to read the heats right and timing right so used conventional as they are cheaper than sexed. With sexed semen you have to get the cow done inside 5 mins, thawed at 37 degrees for 40 secs and you have to handle it very carefully so it being your first year I would go conventional cause with sexed you will get allot of repeats as that's the nature of sexed, not as robust as conventional


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Dosed cows yesterday. One cow is passing a brown slime . I suppose she losing her calf?

    I'd say so. Time of the year for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    cosatron wrote: »
    What I found with DIY ai, I was nervous enough the first year and took a while to read the heats right and timing right so used conventional as they are cheaper than sexed. With sexed semen you have to get the cow done inside 5 mins, thawed at 37 degrees for 40 secs and you have to handle it very carefully so it being your first year I would go conventional cause with sexed you will get allot of repeats as that's the nature of sexed, not as robust as conventional

    I get 60 percent conception rate with sexed here from tech. I'd like to do the AI course but people tell me that it can take the first 20 cows or more to get your hand right and that my herd is too small to justify it. 80 cows plus replacements.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,900 ✭✭✭alps


    Mf310 wrote: »
    Thanks for that maybe you could be right although think if I can get it in at all should be able get sexed semen too? Fragile to handle in the thawing process but when its in the cow itd be the same as conventional really?

    It's much easier to inseminate cows in standing heat as against late or off heat. That's why it can be much harder to achieve proper placement in a factory setting.

    Sexed insemination are delayed for greater conception success. You would be in a fair pressure situtation with a thawed out straw costing €45 and not being able to get through the cervix.

    Great benefit starting off with cheaper straw choice and bulling early. If you're not happy with the effort, you can go again in 12 hours and recover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Just got my profit and loss account for 2019. It doesn't make very nice reading for the hours involved and the investment I'm afraid. And I've been thinking the dept can feck off with their 1.5m and 20m. Shut me down if they like and I'll go back to the 39 hour week. Trying to dry off the cows here these days. It's hard to pull the yield back this year I'm finding. A few other lads said it to me too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,161 ✭✭✭tanko


    straight wrote: »
    I get 60 percent conception rate with sexed here from tech. I'd like to do the AI course but people tell me that it can take the first 20 cows or more to get your hand right and that my herd is too small to justify it. 80 cows plus replacements.

    You need to do the figures yourself. I do my own Ai for 25-30 every year and i'm saving money. Don't be listening to that nonsense.
    You could start of on your cows and get the technician to do the heifers for the first year or two, it doesn't have all DIY or all tech straight away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭cosatron


    straight wrote: »
    I get 60 percent conception rate with sexed here from tech. I'd like to do the AI course but people tell me that it can take the first 20 cows or more to get your hand right and that my herd is too small to justify it. 80 cows plus replacements.

    50 cows here. At it 10years now. First year I started off doing 4 weeks and let the bull off but now at 6 weeks and have the whole herd covered before I let bull off. Best money we ever spent. Have some great bulls in the flask that not available now and great comfort for cows aswell. Ai after milking in the morning and before milking in the evening. All conventional as we have 50/50 nearly every year I would recommend every farmer to do the course


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    tanko wrote: »
    You need to do the figures yourself. I do my own Ai for 25-30 every year and i'm saving money. Don't be listening to that nonsense.
    You could start of on your cows and get the technician to do the heifers for the first year or two, it doesn't have all DIY or all tech straight away.

    Ya, I've a good tech and he would do the heifers for me no bother. It's more for the convenience I'd be interested in doing it. I'd love to do without a bull on farm. People love to tell you that it's very difficult and loads have tried and failed. I would have confidence in myself alright though so I'll probably do the course in time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,161 ✭✭✭tanko


    straight wrote: »
    Ya, I've a good tech and he would do the heifers for me no bother. It's more for the convenience I'd be interested in doing it. I'd love to do without a bull on farm. People love to tell you that it's very difficult and loads have tried and failed. I would have confidence in myself alright though so I'll probably do the course in time.

    You should do the course and give it a go, there's a knack to it, once you get the hang of it you'll do it without thinking about what you're doing.
    It's not very difficult, if i can do it anyone can. You have the numbers to get plenty of practice. Once you start getting them in calf and have a bit of confidence in yourself you'll be grand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭Wildsurfer


    DIY AI is ok if numbers are not too big or if you have someone to milk while you sort AI. But if you're in the parlour for nearly two hours as and then have to wash down and then look out to see up to 20 cows waiting to be served it can get disheartening. Also with a technician you get free repeats, while you pay for every straw you use from your own tank.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Wildsurfer wrote: »
    DIY AI is ok if numbers are not too big or if you have someone to milk while you sort AI. But if you're in the parlour for nearly two hours as and then have to wash down and then look out to see up to 20 cows waiting to be served it can get disheartening. Also with a technician you get free repeats, while you pay for every straw you use from your own tank.

    Our tech stopped the free repeats, too many lads putting in cows with a bit of paint gone off them and they in a few days later


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Wildsurfer wrote: »
    DIY AI is ok if numbers are not too big or if you have someone to milk while you sort AI. But if you're in the parlour for nearly two hours as and then have to wash down and then look out to see up to 20 cows waiting to be served it can get disheartening. Also with a technician you get free repeats, while you pay for every straw you use from your own tank.

    I only do 3 weeks at the moment so I don't even get the free repeats. That is a good deal though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭green daries


    straight wrote: »
    Just got my profit and loss account for 2019. It doesn't make very nice reading for the hours involved and the investment I'm afraid. And I've been thinking the dept can feck off with their 1.5m and 20m. Shut me down if they like and I'll go back to the 39 hour week. Trying to dry off the cows here these days. It's hard to pull the yield back this year I'm finding. A few other lads said it to me too.
    what are cows yields are higher yielding cows Calving later in the spring delay drying until later on 10 weeks dry period is fine


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭green daries


    straight wrote: »
    I only do 3 weeks at the moment so I don't even get the free repeats. That is a good deal though.

    Why


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,843 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Scanning guy was telling me he inseminates on average 75 cows a day for 4 weeks, how much is it a cow?

    I was a disaster last year, it was my first year. This year things have improved drastically. I'd say it was a mixture of preparation, confidence and going in too far!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Why

    Well I get 90+ percent submission in the 3 weeks and about 80 percent of them keep so i just leave off the bull after a few quiet days of no heats. Trying to keep them as compact as possible. Also have a bit of a fear of AI'ing one that is 3 or 4 weeks in calf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    what are cows yields are higher yielding cows Calving later in the spring delay drying until later on 10 weeks dry period is fine

    They're doing 11 or 12 litres. Pulled the meal back to minimum from 4kg and it seemed to make no difference. Am mixing in straw now so that'll do the trick. Have some empty ones doing between 3 and 4 gallons. I asked the local dealer if he would buy them to milk them on but he said he'd only give me the cull price so I said don't bother calling so. I could milk them on with March calvers but I need a break at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Should be ok at the 11/ 12 litres. Not many bar heifers or the few so inclined would go below that anyway I'd think? Had a few back in the day would be doing 25 litres 60 days from calving. They were a right pia to soak up


  • Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    How much would the AI man get from the company per serve? Would they get a tenner a cow?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭green daries


    straight wrote: »
    They're doing 11 or 12 litres. Pulled the meal back to minimum from 4kg and it seemed to make no difference. Am mixing in straw now so that'll do the trick. Have some empty ones doing between 3 and 4 gallons. I asked the local dealer if he would buy them to milk them on but he said he'd only give me the cull price so I said don't bother calling so. I could milk them on with March calvers but I need a break at this stage.

    Just to say the tubing process is far more important for preventing problems than how much they are producing but i would expect your well sorted on that front

    As mooo said I would think they will be fine if you're worried about them no meal restrict water for a short while and the worst silage you can get you're hands on for a couple of days and they will be dry as a bone


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