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POC to sign for Toulon

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    #122
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Which is basically what POC is getting, it's just substantially more drinking money.

    The price of beer in France, jaysis he'd want to be.

    So the conclusion is, little to choose between them on the pitch. That's fair.


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    #123
    dtpc191991
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭dtpc191991


    Kirk Van Houten wrote: »
    Francis didnt seem to have a problem heading to Australia in his playing days to take the money.


    I'm really starting to see Francis as our Stephen Jones. He's an awful Journalist.


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    #124
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Then he should honour his contract and stay at Munster.

    I think it would be fair to not want to play against a team you have played with all your life. With the player roster Toulon has, it shouldn't be a problem either.


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    #125
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    jm08 wrote: »
    I think it would be fair to not want to play against a team you have played with all your life. With the player roster Toulon has, it shouldn't be a problem either.
    He works for Toulon now. Ask Mourad if that's a problem when he's signing the cheques. You reckon he's going to pay a guy 600k per annum and allow him to miss matches because the player doesn't feel like playing against his OLD team. :pac:

    It makes no sense for Munster either to demand any such clause as part of the contract break. Can you imagine Munster vs Toulon with POC? You could sell out Gaelic Grounds, nevermind Thomond!

    I regret bringing this up in the first place as I thought it was bull**** and I think it still is.


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    #126
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,356 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jm08 wrote: »
    I think it would be fair to not want to play against a team you have played with all your life. With the player roster Toulon has, it shouldn't be a problem either.

    It would be a complete nonsense and very unprofessional.

    This discussion is mythical. It won't happen. POC is a pro player, if he plays for Toulon there'll be no clauses specifying certain games he can't play in because he'd be too upset to do so. Give me a break.


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    #127
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    awec wrote: »
    It would be a complete nonsense and very unprofessional.

    This discussion is mythical. It won't happen. POC is a pro player, if he plays for Toulon there'll be no clauses specifying certain games he can't play in because he'd be too upset to do so. Give me a break.

    To add to this, I'd love how this would go down in the dressing room the week before a Munster vs Toulon CC final.

    "Uh I don't really want to play against my OLD team"

    He would be laughed out of the room. That's why it's absurd.

    Tbh if we talk about legacy of a player, there's not many things that match getting one over on your old team!


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    #128
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    jm08 wrote: »
    I think it would be fair to not want to play against a team you have played with all your life. With the player roster Toulon has, it shouldn't be a problem either.

    Players play against their old teams all the time. And normally put in great performances. Didn't Frank Lampard score for Manchester City against Chelsea? It's an absolute nonsense to think they wouldn't want to do it


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    #129
    Swiwi.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    total former wrote: »
    In fairness to Francis, his point is "fair play to O-Connell but it galls me that Toulon can buy whoever they want."

    Which is exactly what a lot of posters here think...

    We're not suggesting POC was forced to sign this contract are we...?

    Toulon can afford to offer lots of money, but no-one is obliged to sign on the dotted line...


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    #130
    ronanc1000
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭ronanc1000


    Any thoughts on the post match interviews via sky & tg4 with Paul? He avoided the Toulon questions. Made me wonder is he just retiring altogether. I know Munster had lost but I feel Paul needs to front up and just speak about his next move. He did say he'd make a decision about his career pre WC, now he needs to confirm he future. Toulon or Retirement. As I said he need to say he's off to Toulon sooner rather than later.


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    #131
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,356 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    He might not be able to say anything if it's not confirmed yet.

    Or maybe Toulon would prefer to announce the signing in a big marketing blitz and have asked him to say nothing yet.


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    #132
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    He works for Toulon now. Ask Mourad if that's a problem when he's signing the cheques. You reckon he's going to pay a guy 600k per annum and allow him to miss matches because the player doesn't feel like playing against his OLD team. :pac:

    It makes no sense for Munster either to demand any such clause as part of the contract break. Can you imagine Munster vs Toulon with POC? You could sell out Gaelic Grounds, nevermind Thomond!

    I regret bringing this up in the first place as I thought it was bull**** and I think it still is.

    Well, he could always negotiate a reduction if he wasn't asked to play against his old team. He isn't going to a club that will actually need him to play in every game (which might be the case if he went to a club in say England).

    At the moment, Toulon would be looking to the IRFU/Munster to release POC from his current contract so Toulon could be required to buy his contract out.

    Munster will sell out Thomond Park anyway against Toulon.


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    #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I heard that Toulon are changing their strip to orange for the next two seasons because O'Connell doesn't want to play in red if it isn't for Munster. Fair play to them for accommodating that on top of them letting him skip any games against Munster.


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    #134
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    Players play against their old teams all the time. And normally put in great performances. Didn't Frank Lampard score for Manchester City against Chelsea? It's an absolute nonsense to think they wouldn't want to do it

    Then, maybe its an Irish thing. Roy Keane said exactly the opposite about playing for Celtic (even though he was a life long fan of Celtic).


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    #135
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,356 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jm08 wrote: »
    Then, maybe its an Irish thing. Roy Keane said exactly the opposite about playing for Celtic (even though he was a life long fan of Celtic).

    No it isn't.


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    #136
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    ronanc1000 wrote: »
    Any thoughts on the post match interviews via sky & tg4 with Paul? He avoided the Toulon questions. Made me wonder is he just retiring altogether. I know Munster had lost but I feel Paul needs to front up and just speak about his next move. He did say he'd make a decision about his career pre WC, now he needs to confirm he future. Toulon or Retirement. As I said he need to say he's off to Toulon sooner rather than later.

    The offer from Toulon is still subject to a medical which he has to undertake.

    Some hints though from Foley that he is retiring after the world cup and rumour on Munsterfans is that he is going to France to coach.


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    #137
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    jm08 wrote: »
    Well, he could always negotiate a reduction if he wasn't asked to play against his old team. He isn't going to a club that will actually need him to play in every game (which might be the case if he went to a club in say England).

    At the moment, Toulon would be looking to the IRFU/Munster to release POC from his current contract so Toulon could be required to buy his contract out.

    Munster will sell out Thomond Park anyway against Toulon.


    Deluded nonsense. If he goes to toulon he will well paid to play rugby against whoever they have to play.


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    #138
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    awec wrote: »
    No it isn't.

    Maybe you could suggest why it isn't? The GAA ethos of only being able to play for your home club/county would be very strong in Ireland, apart from the Provinces being a bit more than just clubs as well.


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    #139
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Deluded nonsense. If he goes to toulon he will well paid to play rugby against whoever they have to play.

    POC is an iconic player (who has a job anyway with the IRFU/Munster). Toulon are trying to get him, he isn't trying to get Toulon.


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    #140
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,356 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jm08 wrote: »
    Maybe you could suggest why it isn't? The GAA ethos of only being able to play for your home club/county would be very strong in Ireland, apart from the Provinces being a bit more than just clubs as well.

    The GAA is amateur. Also players don't really get to pick who they play for.

    Has there ever been an Irish professional sports person who has had a clause put into their contact which stipulates playing against club xyz would be too upsetting for them and they should be excluded from the squad for those games?


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    #141
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    jm08 wrote: »
    POC is an iconic player (who has a job anyway with the IRFU/Munster). Toulon are trying to get him, he isn't trying to get Toulon.

    Your point being?


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    #142
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    awec wrote: »
    The GAA is amateur. Also players don't really get to pick who they play for.

    Has there ever been an Irish professional sports person who has had a clause put into their contact which stipulates playing against club xyz would be too upsetting for them and they should be excluded from the squad for those games?

    I said the GAA ethos of having one club, one county.

    Its not unusual in English football that players out on loan don't play against who ever holds their contract and at the moment IRFU/Munster hold POC's contract for next season so they are in the driving seat.

    The IRFU/Munster are doing POC a favour to release him. It will leave Munster short a lock at short notice.


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    #143
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    jm08 wrote: »
    The IRFU/Munster are doing POC a favour to release him. It will leave Munster short a lock at short notice.

    Munster aren't doing him a favour, they have no say in it.


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    #144
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Your point being?

    POC can write his own terms.

    Toulon hasn't a problem employing large number of players who are missing for a lot of the season due to playing international rugby. They complain, but they still keep employing them.


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    #145
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    total former wrote: »
    Munster aren't doing him a favour, they have no say in it.

    So the IRFU are going to release POC from his contract with no consultation with Munster?


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    #146
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,356 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jm08 wrote: »
    I said the GAA ethos of having one club, one county.

    Its not unusual in English football that players out on loan don't play against who ever holds their contract and at the moment IRFU/Munster hold POC's contract for next season so they are in the driving seat.

    The IRFU/Munster are doing POC a favour to release him. It will leave Munster short a lock at short notice.

    Loan players are not allowed to play against their parent club in English football. There is a rule against it to stop conflicts of interest arising.

    POC is not going on loan and no such rule exists in rugby. There is also no conflict of interest.


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    #147
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    jm08 wrote: »
    POC can write his own terms.

    Toulon hasn't a problem employing large number of players who are missing for a lot of the season due to playing international rugby. They complain, but they still keep employing them.

    Lol laughable nonsense. Here is 1.2mil now which games can you not play because you are a big cry baby. If POC does go and does insist on this then he ruins his legacy in irish rugby.


    Toulon have to release players as part of the international window, they have no choice.


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    #148
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    jm08 wrote: »
    So the IRFU are going to release POC from his contract with no consultation with Munster?

    Does telling them what's about to happen count as consultation? If so, then yes, consultation aplenty.

    If you're asking if Munster have any power to affect the outcome, then no, they have none.


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    #149
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Lol laughable nonsense. Here is 1.2mil now which games can you not play because you are a big cry baby. If POC does go and does insist on this then he ruins his legacy in irish rugby.


    Toulon have to release players as part of the international window, they have no choice.

    So you would class Wayne Smith as a big cry baby because he wont coach a team that might challenge the ABs?

    I just don't get how POC could ruin his legacy in Irish rugby by saying he doesn't want to play against his old team.


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    #150
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    total former wrote: »
    Does telling them what's about to happen count as consultation? If so, then yes, consultation aplenty.

    If you're asking if Munster have any power to affect the outcome, then no, they have none.

    I would have thought POC would have had the manners to run it by the Munster management before approaching the IRFU in the first place.


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    #151
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    jm08 wrote: »
    So you would class Wayne Smith as a big cry baby because he wont coach a team that might challenge the ABs?

    I just don't get how POC could ruin his legacy in Irish rugby by saying he doesn't want to play against his old team.

    Because if he goes then he takes what comes with being a professional rugby player for the money he would get paid. If he cant hack the reality of pro sport he shouldnt go.


    Will JS resign if ireland play NZ in the world cup QF/final because he doesnt want to beat his homeland?


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