Jaguar Land Rover cutting 4500 jobs in UK, Ford cutting jobs in Europe

ofcork · 12-01-2019 7:44pm #1

Big news from the uk during the week jlr cutting 4500 jobs in the uk alone and ford cutting jobs in Europe slow down in sales in a lot of markets also china.

rivegauche · 12-01-2019 8:10pm

Brexit is like pneumonia or MRSA. You might be suffering with something else but they'll be what finish you off.
Both companies have their distinct problems(China for JLR and poor model line-up for Ford) but BREXIT is pushing management over the line to pull the trigger.
Vauxhall ex GM plants are being wound down as quickly as PSA management can do it politically.
Ford lost a transmission plant in the UK in this round. It isn't as though they are loosing out to low cost countries because they can't give away the Ka and Ecosport. Fiesta and Focus both went to Germany and are ticking away nicely.

Isambard · 12-01-2019 8:14pm

Ford didn't build cars in the UK for many years.

rivegauche · 12-01-2019 8:15pm

Isambard wrote: »

Ford didn't build cars in the UK for many years.

That is not the point I'm making and if I know that powertrain/transmission plant is being shut down then you should understand that.

Arthur Daley · 12-01-2019 8:22pm

There had been talk of some steep discounts available on an XJ in the UK recently.

Brexit may have been a factor, but it is the third of three reasons given by JLR. It isn't so much that there are job losses that amount 10% of the workforce, it is the situation where it is difficult to know how or when the jobs being lost here would be coming back to the midlands.

theteal · 12-01-2019 8:25pm

rivegauche wrote: »

Brexit is like pneumonia or MRSA. You might be suffering with something else but they'll be what finish you off.
Both companies have their distinct problems(China for JLR and poor model line-up for Ford) but BREXIT is pushing management over the line to pull the trigger.
Vauxhall ex GM plants are being wound down as quickly as PSA management can do it politically.
Ford lost a transmission plant in the UK in this round. It isn't as though they are loosing out to low cost countries because they can't give away the Ka and Ecosport. Fiesta and Focus both went to Germany and are ticking away nicely.

No idea of official figures but to my anecdotal eyes they sell truck loads of ecosports over here

rivegauche · 12-01-2019 8:42pm

theteal wrote: »

No idea of official figures but to my anecdotal eyes they sell truck loads of ecosports over here

where is here? It isn't where I am and carsalesbase.com says the captur is selling well between 100 and 150% more.

colm_mcm · 12-01-2019 9:38pm

They sold 274 Ecosports here in 2018, Renault sold 1578 Capturs and Toyota sold 2505 CHRs (the Toyota is a lot more expensive though) and Dacia sold 1957 Dusters (Same price bracket as eco sport)
Even the Opel Mokka which is dogdirt outsold the ecosport 3:1

I wouldn’t be basing anything on ecosport sales, it’s basically an Indian market car sold at a huge margin and is just being used to tick a box in Fords lineup.

theteal · 12-01-2019 9:40pm

rivegauche wrote: »

where is here? It isn't where I am and carsalesbase.com says the captur is selling well between 100 and 150% more.

UK, Essex. Although I pickup on some weird Ford loyalty from older generations over here (I think) due to Dagenham not being a million miles away where lots would have had family work

Isambard · 12-01-2019 10:37pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

They sold 274 Ecosports here in 2018, Renault sold 1578 Capturs and Toyota sold 2505 CHRs (the Toyota is a lot more expensive though) and Dacia sold 1957 Dusters (Same price bracket as eco sport)
Even the Opel Mokka which is dogdirt outsold the ecosport 3:1

I wouldn’t be basing anything on ecosport sales, it’s basically an Indian market car sold at a huge margin and is just being used to tick a box in Fords lineup.

can I ask what experience you have of the Mokka?

colm_mcm · 12-01-2019 10:41pm

Isambard wrote: »

can I ask what experience you have of the Mokka?

I drove 2 versions of it at an Opel launch and had one as a rental. It’s seriously outdated at this stage. I was probsbky a bit harsh on it there, but my point is that it was nowhere near a class leader 5 years ago, and has the Crossland X to compete with within the Opel brand, but still manages to vastly outsell the ecosport.

Philb76 · 12-01-2019 10:57pm

Isambard wrote: »

colm_mcm wrote: »

They sold 274 Ecosports here in 2018, Renault sold 1578 Capturs and Toyota sold 2505 CHRs (the Toyota is a lot more expensive though) and Dacia sold 1957 Dusters (Same price bracket as eco sport)
Even the Opel Mokka which is dogdirt outsold the ecosport 3:1

I wouldn’t be basing anything on ecosport sales, it’s basically an Indian market car sold at a huge margin and is just being used to tick a box in Fords lineup.

can I ask what experience you have of the Mokka?

There was a major thread about opel here recently that will answer any questions i drove one once and hopefully never again anyway jlr they wer doing nicely until the diesel scandal love the xf seriously tempting second hand in the uk

Isambard · 12-01-2019 11:06pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I drove 2 versions of it at an Opel launch and had one as a rental. It’s seriously outdated at this stage. I was probsbky a bit harsh on it there, but my point is that it was nowhere near a class leader 5 years ago, and has the Crossland X to compete with within the Opel brand, but still manages to vastly outsell the ecosport.

thought so.

George Dalton · 12-01-2019 11:34pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

They sold 274 Ecosports here in 2018, Renault sold 1578 Capturs and Toyota sold 2505 CHRs (the Toyota is a lot more expensive though) and Dacia sold 1957 Dusters (Same price bracket as eco sport)
Even the Opel Mokka which is dogdirt outsold the ecosport 3:1

I wouldn’t be basing anything on ecosport sales, it’s basically an Indian market car sold at a huge margin and is just being used to tick a box in Fords lineup.

Good post. I’m no Mokka fan but I’d have one every day of the week over an Ecosport or a Duster.

biko · 13-01-2019 11:29am

Jaguar Land Rover to slash 4,500 jobs as part of £2.5bn plan to reverse losses
The British carmaker has been hit by falling sales in China, waning demand for diesel cars and Brexit uncertainty.

https://news.sky.com/story/jaguar-land-rover-to-slash-4500-jobs-as-part-of-25bn-plan-to-reverse-losses-11603631

road_high · 13-01-2019 1:06pm

theteal wrote: »

No idea of official figures but to my anecdotal eyes they sell truck loads of ecosports over here

Rarely see one and they are second rate rubbish. Hopeless against the competition. Ford have been going decidedly down market of late

Isambard · 13-01-2019 3:46pm

road_high wrote: »

Rarely see one and they are second rate rubbish. Hopeless against the competition. Ford have been going decidedly down market of late

As you've rarely seen one, I assume you've no experience of them, so your opinion is rather suspect.

theteal · 13-01-2019 5:06pm

road_high wrote: »

Rarely see one and they are second rate rubbish. Hopeless against the competition. Ford have been going decidedly down market of late

Seen more of them in town today, brand new one parked outside the swimming pool, I just assumed they were as popular everywhere. Actually, iirc the was a euromillions winner in town a few months ago and I read that he even mentioned that he'd just bought one as his first purchase. Anyway, this is OT, just surprised from what I read earlier in the thread.

galwaytt · 13-01-2019 7:52pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

There had been talk of some steep discounts available on an XJ in the UK recently.

Brexit may have been a factor, but it is the third of three reasons given by JLR. It isn't so much that there are job losses that amount 10% of the workforce, it is the situation where it is difficult to know how or when the jobs being lost here would be coming back to the midlands.

A new €1Bn plant and 3000 new employees in Slovenia tells you the answer to that question.....

road_high · 13-01-2019 9:08pm

Isambard wrote: »

As you've rarely seen one, I assume you've no experience of them, so your opinion is rather suspect.

I could have only seen one once to form an opinion. Do you have to see cars hundreds of times before you can make a call on them or not?

[Deleted User] · 13-01-2019 10:13pm

BBC show "Top Gear" always placed the Range Rover/Disco out front in the Clarkson years as being "best of British". Leaving this aside even, I'd say they got a lot of sales through the years from purely the "British" aspect.

With that aspect going/gone, they'll need to stand on their own two feet as a dependable, reliable luxury brand.

Marcusm · 13-01-2019 10:37pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

They sold 274 Ecosports here in 2018, Renault sold 1578 Capturs and Toyota sold 2505 CHRs (the Toyota is a lot more expensive though) and Dacia sold 1957 Dusters (Same price bracket as eco sport)
Even the Opel Mokka which is dogdirt outsold the ecosport 3:1

I wouldn’t be basing anything on ecosport sales, it’s basically an Indian market car sold at a huge margin and is just being used to tick a box in Fords lineup.

The Ecosport is Brazil-designed and engineered for that market. A market in which Dacia’s are marketed as Renaults.

Marcusm · 13-01-2019 10:43pm

Philb76 wrote: »

There was a major thread about opel here recently that will answer any questions i drove one once and hopefully never again anyway jlr they wer doing nicely until the diesel scandal love the xf seriously tempting second hand in the uk

It wasn’t really the diesel scandal though: a combo of a fall off in Chiba sales, an overambitious attemp to challenge the 3 series, and an inability to build on its strength and brand history - failure to create a mass market crossover. Lots of U.K. job losses as the Bratislava plant gears up to assemble cars as well as components.priducing

Philb76 · 14-01-2019 2:25am

All of the above also said in there statement fall in demand for diesel though could be attempting to justify the switch to eastern Europe

gctest50 · 14-01-2019 2:48am

Deleted User wrote: »

BBC show "Top Gear" always placed the Range Rover/Disco out front in the Clarkson years as being "best of British". Leaving this aside even, I'd say they got a lot of sales through the years from purely the "British" aspect.

With that aspect going/gone, they'll need to stand on their own two feet as a dependable, reliable luxury brand.

Best of British lol ....for the last 10 years they're a subsidiary of Tata

It's fantastico

colm_mcm · 14-01-2019 2:18pm

Tata saved them. The same way Geely saved Volvo. The biggest criticism I’d have of Jaguar is that their non performance lineup is dull. I was a big fan of the older evolutionary stuff and I get that they needed a new direction - but the XF XE and F Pace look like Hyundai’s

samih · 14-01-2019 2:47pm

theteal wrote: »

brand new one parked outside the swimming pool...iirc the was a euromillions winner in town a few months ago and I read that he even mentioned that he'd just bought one as his first purchase

If I won Euromillions I would not personally choose Ecosport as my first purchase. What a grim thought. Dang.

Nickindublin · 14-01-2019 2:47pm

No one likes to see anyone lose their jobs no matter where it is but its more than Brexit. The problems in no order from my reading around a bit are imo:

Brexit
Diesel
China
Pricing
Reliability
Customer service

theteal · 14-01-2019 4:39pm

samih wrote: »

If I won Euromillions I would not personally choose Ecosport as my first purchase. What a grim thought. Dang.

Yeah, I found the story again last night, t'wasn't the Euros, just 9ish million on the normal lotto so you can't blame him really

gctest50 · 14-01-2019 4:44pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Tata saved them. The same way Geely saved Volvo. The biggest criticism I’d have of Jaguar is that their non performance lineup is dull. I was a big fan of the older evolutionary stuff and I get that they needed a new direction - but the XF XE and F Pace look like Hyundai’s

Maybe Tata should have left it die or put it out of its misery and started making Tiagos or something

4068ac1elhodqr · 14-01-2019 4:49pm

What about the bigger longer-term picture, regarding the all-important 'sales to china'.

Surely these days China will aim to start satisfying their own domestic needs, by themselves.
Whether it's replica/knock-offs or just on price/incentives alone, it makes sense in light of a looming trade war.

Read somewhere they're aiming to replace their entire rolling stock of airlines (6,000 or so passenger planes),
with their own boeing/airbus replacement - similar specs but cheaper.

Jaguar Land Rover cutting 4500 jobs in UK, Ford cutting jobs in Europe

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