What defines a tenant and rights of the owner

davindub wrote: »

You are refering to a different case (HC) I believe. I have given you two examples, one case where I was present in court, one from the media. Your claim that there is no decided case is therefore incorrect.

Yes, reading lawbooks was pretty much recommended when I studied law but that was a long time ago.....but I suspect you meant that remark to be demeaning.

Anyway, just so you are aware:

"Handled by an airBnB handover agent I used" (OP's words)
= actual authority

"I asked the leasee to deal with the agent"
= Ostensible, which is actually an argument the leasee would make if actual authority did not exist.

What HC case are you referring to? Does authority for AIRbnb extend to giving a legal interest to anyone in the premises. How can the agent give what he does't have?
when does he say he asked the lessee to deal with the agent? had he given the "agent" authority to enter a 90 day lease? He says it happened unknown to him.

davindub wrote: »

Sorry that second quote may have been confusing - The quote was to show what would be relevant to ostensible authority. The absence of such an argument means that ostensible authority is not relevant.

You stated specifically that ostensible authority was the issue in this case.

The OP did not state the agent exceeded their authority, you stated the agent may not have had authority as an unlicensed person.

Look I'll leave it at that, if you recap your posts you can see what you have posted and what the OP posted.

I am discussing what you have posted. You purported to quote the o/p and now can't show where the o/p said anything. You haven't said what case you are referring to. If you were there you would know the name of it.
Where did the o/p say the agent had not exceeded their authority?
If you cannot quote the o/p accurately what are the chances you are referring to these court cases accurately?

davindub wrote: »

Lol, the OP has not said a lot of things. We might be here all day satisfying your need to discuss possible outcomes based on different scenarios.

There is so much wrong with your posts, I have just lost the will to discuss them with you. If you need clarification on why the following examples are nonsense ask in the legal forum.

Examples:

Is the agent licensed? If not they may have exceeded their authority as agent.

Courts will not look into the planning permission of the property.

There are no decided cases where the planning permission was relevant.

How can the agent transfer legal rights to the property he does not possess?

Ostensible Authority VS actual Authority - one is a claim for the leasee, the other is a claim for the principle.

Still not answering any questions. What is this court case you keep talking about?

Priority seat wrote: »

What gets me is that as a landlord I apparently cannot refuse a HAP case if my tenant falls on bad times yet there is no obligation on them to enact a HAP application to ensure the rent gets paid.
or do i have this wrong?

HAP or no, you can give them notice (once the eviction ban expires) if they are in arrears and don't correct it within 14 days of you giving them notice of said arrears. Being in receipt of HAP doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to ensure that the rent is paid as agreed. It'd usually be best to try to work with a tenant who is just starting on HAP rather than instantly serving notice if there are some minor delays at the beginning of the process, but your tenant here is clearly taking the piss. Just make sure you follow the correct procedure to the letter. Unfortunately it will likely end up being a long fight to actually get them out, though, and you probably won't ever see a penny of that rent owed in the end.

Contact threshold to get their viewpoint on this. Prtb will likely just say they’re a tenant, it’s their easy way out of giving a landlord advise on this and maybe threshold will too but I’d be inclined towards contacting threshold to get slightly more balanced guidance. If there’s any chance they’re not a tenant you need to know ASAP.

Have been following this thread as I believe I have had some lucky escapes and am now refusing to let my property during covid. Important to note that eviction is allowed without cause for tenancies up to 6 months. So the op needs to serve notice of eviction giving the correct notice period, asap... under no circumstances let the tenants create a part 4 tenancy. I realise you cant actually evict anyone at the moment, and that allegedly a part 4 tenancy cant be created while the eviction ban is ongoing, but I dont trust the legislation not to have some anti-landlord Twist that would impact the op if he doesnt serve notice to leave. Also, the agent, if he let to this girl via airbnb before, will be able to go back and look up some information on her from previous bookings, including a profile photo, full name, email address and phone number, and maybe her town or city of residence. A good place to start with that info (If the agent will give it to you) is facebook.... a name is not unique, but if you know what she looks like you can match her up with the right mary bloggs on Facebook.... and see who she hangs with. I have used FB in the past to check bonafides of tenants, and you would be surprised how often it works.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

This has got to be a joke?

They knew exactly what they were doing, got into the property without lease or deposit and never paid a cent from day one. You will never see any money from them. These are the professionals and this the MO.

Start the eviction process now. You have wasted 4 months, so that's another 4 months on you. Its not on the agent, its on you. The eviction ban means you can't evict them right now. It doesn't mean you can't get the order to process later.

+1 could well be a backlog in evictions to process, you need to be as close to the front of that queue as possible. I can’t believe this can happen. I’m really curious if they’ve been confirmed as tenants without any payment or lease, there’s no record of them having any rights to live there.

As an add on I’d still call threshold. Pretend you’re the people holding your property in this situation and find out what the advice is. They may straight out say it’s not a tenancy and you'd atleast know where you stand.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Recently short term lets like AirBnB (last few years)are a haven for certain practises. They go into the property, stay past the date and claim they are tenants. Gaurds won't evict them, saying its a Civil Matter. So the only real option is to either log a RTB case and evict, or log a court case and convince the judge the RTB is not required. Once the eviction date rolls near, onto the next place.

I’m finding this hard to believe. Where did you hear it? Airbnb have the payment information for these holiday homes and those payment details are associated with a separate ‘home’ address. I understand if a dispute arises after the Airbnb term and can be proved by the owner the renter can be charged by Airbnb. If they decide to stay on and they’re not invited to stay there, they’re trespassing.

LJ12345 wrote: »

I’m finding this hard to believe. Where did you hear it? Airbnb have the payment information for these holiday homes and those payment details are associated with a separate ‘home’ address. I understand if a dispute arises after the Airbnb term and can be proved by the owner the renter can be charged by Airbnb. If they decide to stay on and they’re not invited to stay there, they’re trespassing.

At some point its hard to tell the difference between a tenant or a licensee. As far as the RTA is concerned, 90 days to a single person who had exclusive use of the property is not a holiday let. Its a tenancy.

Ignoring that, once they are in, have keys and have moved their stuff in, you can't rock up and turf it all onto the street. In most cases they are prepared to get physical and in the end, you went up and assaulted them. You have to go through the process, which takes months to years. Our police force will not lift a finger, its for the courts to decide.

This isn't even a Irish problem and why would Airbnb advertise it. They can try to charge the person, who can just cancel their card or ignore the bills. In reality, once the tenant overholds its your problem from that point onwards.

Since eviction has to go to the RTB first, then onto the courts and most airbnb landlords are effectively absentee from what I can see, its the perfect system for abuse and the usual crowd in Ireland picked up on it.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Irish law requires a tenancy to be founded on contract between the parties

Irish law requires exclusive use of the property and the RTA was amended in 2018 for short term lets. The Gaurd will remove somebody from a hotel room or BNB because they are clear in what they do and where they stand, they will not go to a "AirBnb" that somebody has been living in for months and remove them and their belongings without a court order. Its a civil dispute.

And again, I'm not saying you can't evict them. I'm saying that the second those waters get muddied, its hands off by everybody until you prove otherwise in a court.

Of course if you have the correct planning permission, have a license, rent on short term contracts to people on holiday in Ireland, have cleaners in regularly while they are staying there and have a door security system that lets you cut access, the guards might actually do something or ignore the requests to re-enter the property.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The residential tenancies acts were not amended in 2018.

My apoligies, the residential tenancies act was amended in 2019 to address the AirBnB situation.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/14/section/38/enacted/en/html

"‘short term letting’ means the letting of a house or part of a house for any period not exceeding 14 days, and includes a licence that permits the licensee to enter and reside in the house or part thereof for any such period in consideration of the making by any person (whether or not the licensee) of a payment or payments to the licensor.”."

Once you go past 2 weeks and have exclusive use of the property what exactly says you are not a tenant.