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Scrabble to ban the word "culchie" in America.

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Comments

  • #92
    Kylta
    Registered Users Posts: 15,457 ✭✭✭✭Kylta


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Let them at it. A few hundred more words and I'll release a 'Cards Against Scrabble', make a killing from it. Only banned Scrabble words allowed.

    You would have to invent a dictionary to go with it. Because players would make up their own words? Can I recommend you put in geeface, cockjockey, junkieblowie, fracturedfeatures, you might actually have ti design a bigger board. Anyway best of look with it


  • #93
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    How can you ban words from a game where their eligibility is based on their presence in a dictionary?


  • #94
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Their eligibility is based on their presence in the Official Scrabble Words, afaik - Scrabble's own dictionary

    Edit - actually, it appears that Hasbro are putting it in the rules that slurs aren't allowed. Obviously you can do what you like when you're playing at home, but the Scrabble dictionary then comes into effect for official tournament play I guess


  • #95
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    It's not an insult its just slang for someone from
    the country. I don't think it's in wide use in America


  • #96
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pauliedragon wrote: »
    As the title says apparantly scrabble will ban culchie and other terms deemed offensive. How would yanks (maybe yank is now offensive sorry mods) know the word culchie or does it mean something different over there?
    They probably don't. The company has mined college-level dictionaries for words that are tagged 'slang, offensive' and has put them on a list. They probably don't even realise it's on their list.

    So nobody is really outraged here, except for those who like to be outraged by imagined outrage.


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  • #97
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    So nobody is really outraged here, except for those who like to be outraged by imagined outrage.
    Very little outrage on this thread as far as I can see.

    I think people like to be outraged at the imagined outrage of other outraged people :)

    It is daftly puritanical that (a) a word game is so far up its own hole it thinks it can define what it or isn't acceptable language and (b) they've rearranged the letters (except to accredited media) so people don't get notions and start calling each other "culchies"

    I think that point can be made without suggestions of outrage.


  • #98
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,850 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    chosen1 wrote: »
    Half of them could probably see a herd of cows from their back window, but that didn't matter to them.

    There's a picture of my sister in our back garden when she was about 2, cows in a field behind the fence and this was in the middle of Dublin surrounded by thousands of houses. The last farmer sold up and it became a school.

    Less than a km from the Red Cow on the Naas Road there are big fields with herds of cows...

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #99
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,850 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Queenstown, or should I say Cork is more Jackeen than Dublin ever has been.

    Has a place called the English Market, and fawned over Lizzie a few years back to an amazing degree.

    Q. How to gain the adulation of Cork people?

    A. Burn down their city and wait 90 years.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #100
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Kylta wrote: »
    You would have to invent a dictionary to go with it. Because players would make up their own words? Can I recommend you put in geeface, cockjockey, junkieblowie, fracturedfeatures, you might actually have ti design a bigger board. Anyway best of look with it

    Rogers Profanisaurus is generally accepted as the standard reference.


  • #101
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    cdeb wrote: »
    Very little outrage on this thread as far as I can see.

    I think people like to be outraged at the imagined outrage of other outraged people :)

    It is daftly puritanical that (a) a word game is so far up its own hole it thinks it can define what it or isn't acceptable language and (b) they've rearranged the letters (except to accredited media) so people don't get notions and start calling each other "culchies"

    I think that point can be made without suggestions of outrage.

    Outraged by the outrage on behalf of those who fail to be outraged by the lack of outrage from those who should be outraged. Or something.


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  • #102
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    How can you ban words from a game where their eligibility is based on their presence in a dictionary?

    You rewrite the dictionary. Literally newspeak


  • #103
    Vita nova
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Vita nova


    riclad wrote: »
    It's not an insult its just slang for someone from
    the country. I don't think it's in wide use in America
    Well, redneck is on the list, so it's not overly surprising that synonyms for redneck are also on the list even if they're not used much in the US or just by Irish Americans or Irish immigrants.

    While culchie isn't necessarily used as an insult, it can definitely be used as one.


  • #104
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Anything can be used as an insult if you try hard enough, you utter piano


  • #105
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    They probably don't. The company has mined college-level dictionaries for words that are tagged 'slang, offensive' and has put them on a list. They probably don't even realise it's on their list.

    So nobody is really outraged here, except for those who like to be outraged by imagined outrage.

    Rather than throw around accusations of "outrage", how about bemused or mildly concerned?
    There's a whole spectrum of emotion between total apathy and outrage, and it contributes nothing positive to a discussion to misrepresent and dismiss people's concerns as "outrage" simply because you don't agree with them.

    Honestly, the scenario you describe of an algorithm mining dictionaries and deciding in an unnuanced fashion which are offensive and thus banned, without any higher input or consideration, is a mildly concerning one. I couldn't care less about it's impact on Scrabble, I've never played the word Culchie in Scrabble and I'm a bit surprised to hear that it was previously a valid word since IME the Scrabble dictionary is already quite restrictive compared to say the Oxford English.


  • #106
    Vita nova
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Vita nova


    cdeb wrote: »
    Anything can be used as an insult if you try hard enough, you utter piano
    Yes but I think you'll agree that it's easier to use a synonym for "an unsophisticated country person" as an insult than to use an inanimate musical instrument as an insult.


  • #107
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Partly simply due to use though. Like the way "literally" now means "figuratively" purely by use. If enough people start calling each other utter pianos, it would get the same meaning.

    Anyway part of Irish culture is bonding by insult. Words are too flexible to be conclusively nailed down as bad or not.

    you-drunk-paddy-bastard_o_2299583.jpg


  • #108
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    You rewrite the dictionary. Literally newspeak
    You write the word book again. This is double plus good.


  • #109
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Vita nova wrote: »
    Yes but I think you'll agree that it's easier to use a synonym for "an unsophisticated country person" as an insult than to use an inanimate musical instrument as an insult.
    you're an inanimate musical instrument...


  • #110
    Vita nova
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Vita nova


    cdeb wrote: »
    Partly simply due to use though. Like the way "literally" now means "figuratively" purely by use. If enough people start calling each other utter pianos, it would get the same meaning.

    Anyway part of Irish culture is bonding by insult. Words are too flexible to be conclusively nailed down as bad or not.
    To be trite and clichéd, we are where we are and when piano gains the same egregiousness I'll pay it some attention.


  • #111
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    But the point is that the meaning isn't in the word, it's in the emotion conveyed behind it. So on that basis, anything can be an insult.

    So while "culchie" can be an insult, most of the times I would say it's not. There's nothing specific about the arrangement of letters "culchie" that's insulting. Is it still a word of insult if it's not used that way most of the time? Where do you draw the line?


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  • #112
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Rather than throw around accusations of "outrage", how about bemused or mildly concerned?
    There's a whole spectrum of emotion between total apathy and outrage, and it contributes nothing positive to a discussion to misrepresent and dismiss people's concerns as "outrage" simply because you don't agree with them.

    Honestly, the scenario you describe of an algorithm mining dictionaries and deciding in an unnuanced fashion which are offensive and thus banned, without any higher input or consideration, is a mildly concerning one. I couldn't care less about it's impact on Scrabble, I've never played the word Culchie in Scrabble and I'm a bit surprised to hear that it was previously a valid word since IME the Scrabble dictionary is already quite restrictive compared to say the Oxford English.

    This only applies in Scrabble competition. I really see nothing to be even mildly concerned about.
    For me it is no different than a golf club enforcing a dress code.

    Their game, their competition, their rules.


  • #113
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    Here's the list of the words they're looking to ban from Scrabble competition. https://scrabbleplayers.org/w/Slurs

    When I first read the list, I thought it was all in Welsh, but it turns out that bizarrely, they've written them all backwards so that innocent people won't accidentally read them! I guess that won't stop Scrabble nerds, though.

    Jesus.
    F*cking.
    Christ.

    :eek:


  • #114
    Vita nova
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Vita nova


    cdeb wrote: »
    But the point is that the meaning isn't in the word, it's in the emotion conveyed behind it. So on that basis, anything can be an insult.

    So while "culchie" can be an insult, most of the times I would say it's not. There's nothing specific about the arrangement of letters "culchie" that's insulting. Is it still a word of insult if it's not used that way most of the time? Where do you draw the line?
    Disagree, the meaning is in the word and that can be aquired meaning through usage or inherent/inherited meaning based on etymology. I'm aware of four possible etymologies for the word and only one of them is somewhat neutral; I'm not going to outline them here but they're easy to find on the web.

    As to where to draw the line, there are no hard and fast rules, different people and organisations have different criteria and it's based on more than how the majority use a word.


  • #115
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Etymology isn't really all that relevant. You're assuming beliefs from centuries past hold up now, which often isn't the case. Meanings change. Plus you can't tell what the etymology is anyway, so it's wrong to draw conclusions on it.

    I agree current usage is the way of imparting meaning - and on that basis, it's on balance not a term of serious insult.


  • #116
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    joe40 wrote: »
    This only applies in Scrabble competition. I really see nothing to be even mildly concerned about.
    For me it is no different than a golf club enforcing a dress code.

    Their game, their competition, their rules.
    I think they've got Hasbro to add it to the general rules too. (Everyone reads the rules, right?)

    I don't think it's "nothing". Certainly there's no outrage, but things can be in between. That's often forgotten in internet discussions.

    It's symptomatic of American sensibilities in a way - it's a country founded by Puritans and who still find words like "jacks" squeamish. So it's cultural in that way. But it is also part of the generally increasingly PC way the world is unfortunately going, and there's no harm calling that out. Obviously we can ignore it because this isn't America - yet there's a surprising number of people who don't recognise that.

    It's a very very minor thing of course. I mostly find it pathetic tbh, especially the scrambling of words to avoid offence. And yet unscrambling cccekkorsu is funny - more so because I know it'd upset whoever decided to scramble the words that I find their work has made it funnier :)


  • #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sligojoek wrote: »
    A teacher in school years ago told us that "Culchie" came from the word agricultural.
    That's what I always thought, "Culchie science" was what we called Ag Science at school.

    Also, culchie is a relative term. When I was in school, people from Borrisokane were called 'townies' and those of us from the rural parts were culchies. It got a bit aggressive at times.


  • #118
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    That's what I always thought, "Culchie science" was what we called Ag Science at school.

    Also, culchie is a relative term. When I was in school, people from Borrisokane were called 'townies' and those of us from the rural parts were culchies. It got a bit aggressive at times.

    Borrisokane wouldn’t be a sophisticated sort of place. The sort of place where men decide to use some rope to hold up their trousers. Where having your own teeth is viewed with suspicion.


  • #119
    sligojoek
    Registered Users Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    THe Nenagh lads would consider the Borris lads culchies


  • #120
    McGinniesta
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    Kylta wrote: »
    Is gizzablowie still there?

    Could be but I doubt it somehow.

    Maybe suck my big hefty toolbox is there but again I DOUBT IT SOMEHOW.


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  • #121
    McGinniesta
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    Americans dont know where mexico is.

    Something tells me they don;t know what a culchie is.


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