Reopened Athlone-Mullingar - 6,800 Passengers Per Week - IE Estimate

Occidental · 28-06-2006 2:11pm

They may only be a short distance apart, but they are also 15-20ft above ground level, with a sheer drop between. Just to make matters worse, the gap is filled with two roads and about 50-60 houses, a sub station and a bloody huge transmission mast. You may also have problems fitting in long enough platforms between the Ballymahon and Coosan roads. As I said, it probably could be done, but the costs wouldn't be pretty, as you'd have to demolish at least some of the houses and pay compensation to most of the rest. I'm sure stilted platforms and a link bridge wouldn't come cheap either.

Platform length permitting, it would be much easier and cheaper to reopen the western station and close the current one. Bus Eireann would have a fit, but it wouldn't make that much of a difference to most of the rest of the town.

SeanW · 28-06-2006 2:31pm

OK, I think of 2 options:

1: Run a travelator

from the current East station across the Shannon to the reopened Western station.

2: Reopen the West station, and halt all Intercity trains there, then have a 2600 railcar acting as an East-West station shuttle, to take Eastern passengers to a stopped train at the West, and return to take Eastbound passengers disembarking from the IC train to the East station.

Athlone commuter trains would stop at both stations.

Are both of these crazy?

dowlingm · 28-06-2006 7:07pm

I don't think every service needs to worry about serving Athlone East as long as existing level of service is maintained - that Galway-AthWest-Moate-Dublin services are additional to rather than instead of Galway-AthEast-Tullamore-Dublin. The key is to make both stations earn their keep by making Athlone-Galway commuting by rail so frequent and convenient it's a no brainer and both parking areas are full.

I know the Dept of Ed is in Athlone - what's the commuting potential into Athlone like?

murphaph - nice one re: DTO aerials - very nice detailed shots although as Occidental noted if you don't have elevations aerials/maps are just a tease

Ham'nd'egger · 29-06-2006 12:43am

Occidental wrote:

They may only be a short distance apart, but they are also 15-20ft above ground level, with a sheer drop between. Just to make matters worse, the gap is filled with two roads and about 50-60 houses, a sub station and a bloody huge transmission mast. You may also have problems fitting in long enough platforms between the Ballymahon and Coosan roads. As I said, it probably could be done, but the costs wouldn't be pretty, as you'd have to demolish at least some of the houses and pay compensation to most of the rest. I'm sure stilted platforms and a link bridge wouldn't come cheap either.

Platform length permitting, it would be much easier and cheaper to reopen the western station and close the current one. Bus Eireann would have a fit, but it wouldn't make that much of a difference to most of the rest of the town.

Occidental,

The MGWR was double line to Galway prior to the formation of the GSR, so there will be room for a platform, with a little realignment. While I am aware that is is some height off the street, all you need for it to work is:-

A) Room for a platform, which should be there by default.

A link bridge to same.

John R · 29-06-2006 5:08am

Hamndegger wrote:

Occidental,

The MGWR was double line to Galway prior to the formation of the GSR, so there will be room for a platform, with a little realignment. While I am aware that is is some height off the street, all you need for it to work is:-

A) Room for a platform, which should be there by default.
A link bridge to same.

The line is very close to the current station however it is not currently a suitable location for a platform as it is steeply graded.

A short distance from the station both lines cross the N53, the Portarlington line crosses over it on a bridge, the Mullingar crosses it at road level.

A platform on a slope is not acceptable and there is not enough room to level the line for a platform and allow it descend to the road level. The only way of putting a platform in there would be to build up the embankment and construct a lengthy bridge on the alignment to cross over the road and descend the line east of the road crossing. An expensive and I'm sure unpopular plan for the people living next to the line.

Having both stations open doesn't sound ideal IMO, it would add an unnecessary extra stop to IC trains and having some trains using one station and some the other is not great either.

Even with the Mullingar line open there is going to be more traffic on the Portarlington route with an increase in Galway and Mayo expresses and more commuter semi-fasts into Heuston. Would doubling Portarlington-Athlone not be a more beneficial project?

dowlingm · 29-06-2006 12:35pm

John R

being able to divert additional Galway services away from Heuston while Kildare Route Project/Interconnector work going on would be a good idea I think. Dynamic loops on the Portarlington section might get most of the doubling benefits anyway.

D'Peoples Voice · 29-06-2006 1:33pm

Before I start, let me say that I'm not that familiar with the topography in and around athlone.
Why are people so determined that the current train alignments must be kept, when contrcuting roads we think nothing of realigning the road and selling off the old land!
From this map,
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=-850000&Y=7025000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=0&scale=1000000&multimap.x=336&multimap.y=232 it would seem that a possible solution might be to move the current Tullamore Athlone line up to meet at Moate, likewise move the current Mullingar Athlone line down to meet at Moate. then perhaps look at running the one line into Athlone before diverging the far side of Athlone.
Please don't tell me CPO land in rural Ireland will be that difficult compared to an Urban area!

dowlingm · 29-06-2006 6:44pm

Clara to Moate... hm. 11km as the crow flies says Google Earth. Current timetable has 16-24 minutes between Clara and Athlone so with a stop in Moate you'd like to think it would be built to at least 90mph if not 100mph with the aim that no service would be more than say 25 minutes Clara-Athlone West.

These lines were built by private companies in competition so they were not designed to integrate.

That scheme would eliminate the need for the Athlone-Clara line and Athlone East station but would the Westmeath side go nuts that they lose the station and have to cross the river? Also - Google Earth doesn't give elevations but can anyone familiar with the N80 indicate whether there's bogland in the way?

(edited to note - this could go in conjunction with an N80 upgrade if planned but the N6 might be a problem).

Ham'nd'egger · 30-06-2006 5:24am

dowlingm wrote:

Clara to Moate... hm. 11km as the crow flies says Google Earth. Current timetable has 16-24 minutes between Clara and Athlone so with a stop in Moate you'd like to think it would be built to at least 90mph if not 100mph with the aim that no service would be more than say 25 minutes Clara-Athlone West.

These lines were built by private companies in competition so they were not designed to integrate.

That scheme would eliminate the need for the Athlone-Clara line and Athlone East station but would the Westmeath side go nuts that they lose the station and have to cross the river? Also - Google Earth doesn't give elevations but can anyone familiar with the N80 indicate whether there's bogland in the way?

(edited to note - this could go in conjunction with an N80 upgrade if planned but the N6 might be a problem).

There was a line from Streamstown Junction to Clara at some stage yonks ago so it's line would be a route, but God knows how fast it would be, and I am not sure how the junctions are aligned in relation to each line. And God knows, that would be a lot more pricy than re-opening the MWR station again.

dowlingm · 30-06-2006 5:41am

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0110/D.0110.194803110007.html

Occidental · 30-06-2006 7:53am

dowlingm wrote:

Clara to Moate... hm. 11km as the crow flies says Google Earth. Current timetable has 16-24 minutes between Clara and Athlone so with a stop in Moate you'd like to think it would be built to at least 90mph if not 100mph with the aim that no service would be more than say 25 minutes Clara-Athlone West.

These lines were built by private companies in competition so they were not designed to integrate.

That scheme would eliminate the need for the Athlone-Clara line and Athlone East station but would the Westmeath side go nuts that they lose the station and have to cross the river? Also - Google Earth doesn't give elevations but can anyone familiar with the N80 indicate whether there's bogland in the way?

(edited to note - this could go in conjunction with an N80 upgrade if planned but the N6 might be a problem).

Mark if you were going to do this you'd reroute the Mullingar line south after Moate, to join the Clara line east of Athlone. You would have to cross some bog, a number of hills, the N6 and a fair few minor roads.

It would be much cheaper to close the current station and route all traffic through the Western station. The only thing I'm not sure about are current and potential platform lengths at the western station, as this site is also elevated.

BTW, both stations are in Westmeath.

Slice · 30-06-2006 8:48am

In some English towns and in Newry if I'm correct there's a feeder bus from the town centre to the train station in cases where the train station is situation outside of town.

MarkoP11 · 30-06-2006 11:04am

I was in Athlone recently and conscious of the possibility of a reopening had a look around. Firstly as has been pointed out there is a levels issue, the line in general is 15 feet off the ground on both sides of the Shannon. The Mullingar line was originally twin track and it would make little sense not to reopen it as two since this would offer a reduced journey time avoiding waits at stations, even if it is only built as single it would be a bad move to place a platform on the formation of the second track

There was a line from Clara to Streamstown which closed in the early 1960's lifted and assumed closed, it faces the wrong way around. It approaches Clara facing Tullamore

To reopen and put the second track back on the Mullingar Athlone will not require a works order or the delays and red tape it includes since its within the original act of construction, note Maynooth Clonsilla.

Simplest and most sensible approach is close the existing station and reopen the old station, the current station is refereed to as central but its a fair walk and most people arriving left by car or taxi very few walked. The old station is still in place as are the platforms all 3 of which look to be more than sufficient in length. Two of the platforms are currently signalled for operation. The centre platform is an island and there is space behind it for some sidings which are still in use. There are some old goods store buildings on the site no longer needed which would provide space for a car park. I might stand corrected on this but the signalling control room in Athlone is at the old station.

The point about a local bus service is valid all you need is a bus doing a loop around the town you could even get the local council to pay for it so its free. Compared to say Newbridge the walk to either station in Athlone is fairly reasonable

dowlingm · 30-06-2006 6:38pm

Nice summary.

take any photos for a future P11 campaign web page?

MarkoP11 · 30-06-2006 9:32pm

Had no camera on me, was there by sheer chance, but we do have a few pictures of the line Derek took about 2003, he would post them but boards.ie and his popup blocker don't get along

Castletown is the only other station other than Moate, the photos capture the fact the alignment was built to take two tracks

The line was still in frequent enough use back then for engineering trains

paulm17781 · 30-06-2006 9:37pm

That line is in far better condition than another disused line which is getting priority treatment....

It should be relaid and used ASAP!

DerekP11 · 30-06-2006 11:49pm

Thanks Mark.

Its always helpful if those unfamiliar with the line have something to visualise.

My one and only trip over the line was as a child on a mystery train excursion to Athlone. The latest records I have for passenger traffic, are GAA specials to Dublin from Galway in 1990. RPSI/ITG may have gone over it after that.

1987 is the year of official downgrade, when the last Galway mail with passenger accomodation ran from Connolly at about 8pm. But, come to think of it, the last mail may not have had passenger coaches. However the 8pm was definetly featured in timetables around the mid 80s as a train to Galway from Connolly. Platform 5 if Im not mistaken.

There's no doubting its importance as a strategic link in the existing network. Lack of money was the reason for its closure, as IE continued to use it into the 90s. (just about)

P11 ran a press release about it last year, after Martin Cullen's remarks about planning. It went down well in the local media and was backed up by the fact that there is support in the area for its reinstatement

Original press release can be found here.....

http://www.platform11.org/media/press_release.php?year=2005&no=pr_044.html

John R · 01-07-2006 1:26am

MarkoP11 wrote:

I was in Athlone recently and conscious of the possibility of a reopening had a look around. Firstly as has been pointed out there is a levels issue, the line in general is 15 feet off the ground on both sides of the Shannon. The Mullingar line was originally twin track and it would make little sense not to reopen it as two since this would offer a reduced journey time avoiding waits at stations, even if it is only built as single it would be a bad move to place a platform on the formation of the second track

There was a line from Clara to Streamstown which closed in the early 1960's lifted and assumed closed, it faces the wrong way around. It approaches Clara facing Tullamore

To reopen and put the second track back on the Mullingar Athlone will not require a works order or the delays and red tape it includes since its within the original act of construction, note Maynooth Clonsilla.

Re-laying the existing alignment is the only sensible proposition, the wild ideas expressed earlier are a completely OTT reaction to a small problem with the station access in Athlone.
Building a new alignment would be a completely pointless exercise, the only downside to the current lines is the station issue which is minor in comparison to planning new lines.

MarkoP11 wrote:

Simplest and most sensible approach is close the existing station and reopen the old station, the current station is refereed to as central but its a fair walk and most people arriving left by car or taxi very few walked. The old station is still in place as are the platforms all 3 of which look to be more than sufficient in length. Two of the platforms are currently signalled for operation. The centre platform is an island and there is space behind it for some sidings which are still in use. There are some old goods store buildings on the site no longer needed which would provide space for a car park. I might stand corrected on this but the signalling control room in Athlone is at the old station.

I tend to agree, having two stations in a town the size of Athlone is not warranted and the difficulties with putting a platform on the Mullingar line at the southern station are large. The only downside with switching to the Midland station is that the current station is co-located with the bus station. I don't know how many people actually use it to transfer from bus to rail but removing this transfer facility is a step in the wrong direction.

If there is ground space to move the bus station as well that would be a big bonus.

The Midland station is quite a substantial building, much larger than the Southern one so there is should be more than enough space for it to cater for passengers from both modes.

MarkoP11 wrote:

The point about a local bus service is valid all you need is a bus doing a loop around the town you could even get the local council to pay for it so its free. Compared to say Newbridge the walk to either station in Athlone is fairly reasonable

There are already 2 local bus routes across Athlone, the primary one running every 15 minutes although neither pass by the stations at the moment.

John R · 01-07-2006 1:45am

I still think that Athlone-Portarlington is going to be a major problem if it is not doubled.

The Dublin-Galway and Mayo expresses are not going to be diverted via Mullingar. No matter what it is going to be a significantly slower route to Dublin and also consistently more congested for the forseeable future. Post interconnector there will be plenty of capacity into Heuston for expresses with the local services seperated away and the journey times should drop considerably also.

Currently there is not space for additional terminating trains to cross the northern line into Connolly and post interconnector there will not be the gaps to allow fast running from Connolly-Maynooth and certainly not Clonsilla with Pace/Navan traffic.

Passing loops cost time as one train has to stop and wait, once the frequency on Athlone-Portarlington reaches hourly or less in both directions they will be a big timekeeping headache. One late-running train will cascade through the section for hours causing the whole service to be affected.

Occidental · 01-07-2006 6:38am

John R wrote:

Re-laying the existing alignment is the only sensible proposition, the wild ideas expressed earlier are a completely OTT reaction to a small problem with the station access in Athlone.
Building a new alignment would be a completely pointless exercise, the only downside to the current lines is the station issue which is minor in comparison to planning new lines.

I tend to agree, having two stations in a town the size of Athlone is not warranted and the difficulties with putting a platform on the Mullingar line at the southern station are large. The only downside with switching to the Midland station is that the current station is co-located with the bus station. I don't know how many people actually use it to transfer from bus to rail but removing this transfer facility is a step in the wrong direction.

If there is ground space to move the bus station as well that would be a big bonus.

The Midland station is quite a substantial building, much larger than the Southern one so there is should be more than enough space for it to cater for passengers from both modes.

There are already 2 local bus routes across Athlone, the primary one running every 15 minutes although neither pass by the stations at the moment.

John,

Agreed that moving the line would be madness.

There is some crossover between bus and train, but It's not huge. It would be unfortunate to loose the co-location, but you're never going to get Bus Eireann to move from a state of the art facility they built only a few years ago.

Another problem which a move may solve is parking. Most of the CIE land at the current station is taken up be a Bus Eireann maintenance depot, which means parking is always at a premium(I've driven to Galway because I couldn't park to get the train). Parking at the old station site is currently easy.

It should be possible to route at least some Galway services via Mullingar. If congestion is really chronic, another option would be to extend the fledgling Athlone-Galway Commuter service as far as Mullingar, or perhaps even Maynooth, which would give an optional path to Galway.

In truth this is all a bit cart before horse. The main thing a reopening of the line gives IE, are options.

murphaph · 01-07-2006 11:37am

Occidental wrote:

The main thing a reopening of the line gives IE, are options.

Hmmmmm, this got me thinking can anyone think of an existing IE line, double tracked, open and fully bi-directionally signalled, fully grade separated, running through dense suburbs of a large city with space to add at least one station, which remains closed only to scheduled passsenger traffic?

IE have options already. They need some bloody vision.

GerardKeating · 01-07-2006 12:17pm

murphaph wrote:

Hmmmmm, this got me thinking can anyone think of an existing IE line, double tracked, open and fully bi-directionally signalled, fully grade separated, running through dense suburbs of a large city with space to add at least one station, which remains closed only to scheduled passsenger traffic?

IE have options already. They need some bloody vision.

None that are double tracked...

Navan Junction · 01-07-2006 12:47pm

GerardKeating wrote:

None that are double tracked...

The Phunnel.

murphaph · 01-07-2006 1:23pm

Navan Junction wrote:

The Phunnel.

I like it

MarkoP11 · 01-07-2006 2:20pm

GerardKeating is indeed correct there does not exist such a rail line, the Park Tunnel is not bi directionally signalled if it was it would eliminate one of the problems the inabilty to use platform 10 for Connolly bound trains

The Portarlington route will remain the primary route since it is the fastest route, Athlone Mullingar is a regional line with possible use for secondary intercity.

What you could do is use one of the new 6 car intercity railcars on the Sligo line and have a 3 car on the rear and separate in Mullingar (this was done in the 1950's), 3 car continues to Athlone where it forms a connection with Galway services and also could continue to Westport. Irish Rail have indicated that Westport is to get an extra service but it would operate as a shuttle to Athlone only

The solution provides workable service offering direct services via both routes, not requiring any additional paths over the Maynooth line and Connolly, provides the important link between Mullingar and Athlone and provides multiple interchanges. Sligo is to get a train every 2 hours so plenty of possible journeys. You then divert any freight via Mullingar where is would coexist better non stop trains given the lower prevailing speeds

John R · 01-07-2006 4:14pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

GerardKeating is indeed correct there does not exist such a rail line, the Park Tunnel is not bi directionally signalled if it was it would eliminate one of the problems the inabilty to use platform 10 for Connolly bound trains

What's needed there is a Platform 11.

murphaph · 01-07-2006 4:23pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

GerardKeating is indeed correct there does not exist such a rail line, the Park Tunnel is not bi directionally signalled if it was it would eliminate one of the problems the inabilty to use platform 10 for Connolly bound trains

I think you're missing the point Mark. The will within IE to use the Phunnel for anything other than 'works trains' and GAA specials simply doesn't exist, despite there being ample capacity at Connolly on any given sleepy Sunday afternoon, IE would rather Kildare line passengers got the bus to the city centre, oh wait, they don't run trains on the Kildare Commuter line on Sundays because there's "no demand for that", so no problem really :rolleyes: . The railway, our railway should be taken off these chancers.

MarkoP11 wrote:

What you could do is use one of the new 6 car intercity railcars on the Sligo line and have a 3 car on the rear and separate in Mullingar

Sounds like a nice clever idea and one that you see function without incident all the time, even on commuter trains in Germany and elsewhere. Sadly, IE wouldn't dare introduce that 'radical' type of thing to their railway.

John R · 01-07-2006 4:25pm

Occidental wrote:

Agreed that moving the line would be madness.

There is some crossover between bus and train, but It's not huge. It would be unfortunate to loose the co-location, but you're never going to get Bus Eireann to move from a state of the art facility they built only a few years ago.

I can imagine they wouldn't be too keen to pay for another new facility but if providing a suitable bus stand area and waiting/administration facilities in the station is part of the overall project funding there shouldn't be a problem.

Occidental wrote:

Another problem which a move may solve is parking. Most of the CIE land at the current station is taken up be a Bus Eireann maintenance depot, which means parking is always at a premium(I've driven to Galway because I couldn't park to get the train). Parking at the old station site is currently easy.

There would be no reason to move the bus depot from the current location, most buses stopping in Athlone don't use it anyway.

I really don't know how much space there is at the Midland station for car or bus parking, most stations of that size had substantial lands for freight and such but that may not still be available.

Occidental wrote:

In truth this is all a bit cart before horse. The main thing a reopening of the line gives IE, are options.

Not really. Giving IE a choice is a fatal mistake. Best thing is for a good plan to be drawn up and for them to have no choice but to implement it.

If they had been instructed to make use of the Phunnel(:D) for Kildare local then we wouldn't have the situation where spencer dock surface is going to be inaccessable from those lines.

Navan Junction · 01-07-2006 5:07pm

murphaph wrote:

I like it

The Phunnel and the Interconnector - I can see it now..:rolleyes:

dowlingm · 01-07-2006 10:41pm

John R says Portarlington-Athlone needs doubling. How many passing loops are there on that stretch and what's the end-end track distance? Is there one at Tullamore at least?

As for increasing service - with the current CAF fiasco, as the P11 boys have pointed out which are already a combination of late in service and being utilised below capacity, this has a knock on effect because instead of freeing up carriages and railcars on regional routes the Mk3s are still chugging up and down to Cork. IE claim they have no stock and some people come on here and look at their fleet numbers and say, "lying swine, of course they have" without looking at fleet availability which continues to depend on the 1960s/1970s fleet (though there are some who don't mind that

).

Thus even if Moate was reopened to traffic tomorrow what could be run on it? Fixing the IR situation, particularly in Cork, is critical to rail expansion in Ireland and it has to happen immediately.

Reopened Athlone-Mullingar - 6,800 Passengers Per Week - IE Estimate

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