Pharmaceuticals rip-off, courtesy of the government

cnocbui · 23-10-2020 5:49pm #1

Beconase nasal spray. The active ingredient is Beclomethasone Dipropionate.

In the past, I have been able to get the generic version of a Beconase nasal spray over the internet, but that avenue seems to have been shut down.

I went into a chemist this afternoon and asked if they had a generic version of Beconase. The answer was, no, but they could order it for me onprescription. They can sell Beconase over the counter but you have to have a prescription to be able to buy a cheaper generic version of the same thing.

So yes, you can have the cheaper generic, but that will be €60 for a prescription first, thanks - ka ching! Irish officialdom cuteness at it's finest. Not quite as gobsmaking in it's intended purpose of protecting vested interests as VRT, but close.

Beconase is €11 for a 100 dose spray. The generic you can readily get in the UK is a 200 dose spray for £4, so about a fifth the cost.

endacl · 23-10-2020 5:50pm

Spin to Newry to stock up?

Once we’re allowed...

cnocbui · 23-10-2020 6:05pm

That would be a 570 km round trip, taking 6 hours if driving nonstop, and would take about €80 in petrol.

Think I'll pass on that one.

tayto lover · 23-10-2020 6:07pm

cnocbui wrote: »

That would be a 570 km round trip, taking 6 hours if driving nonstop, and would take about €80 in petrol.

Think I'll pass on that one.

Would they not post it out to you if you ring them?

GerardKeating · 23-10-2020 6:11pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Would they not post it out to you if you ring them?

As the OP alluded to, such items are getting intercepted in the post.

cnocbui · 23-10-2020 6:17pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Would they not post it out to you if you ring them?

I doubt it. I was able to get some over the internet in the past, 3-4 at a time, by using a UK foewarding service but I think Paypal are now supplying your country of residence behind your back so the checkout process bombs.

Try ordering innocuous stuff from a chemist in France, the Netherlands or Belgium, and then add a packet of Aspirin. your checkout will bomb. I kid you not, they have to comply with Irish legislation and if you add an economy packet of Aspirin with 40 tablets, or god forbid, more than one packet, your checkout and sale will be rejected.

There are so many exceptions to the 'common market' in the EU, it's a joke

Tom Mann Centuria · 23-10-2020 6:22pm

Plenty of UK eBay sellers will post here. They don't care! My postal address default is Ireland and there's 2 in the first half a dozen listings that would post what you're looking for here. (Pricey postage but still cheaper)

Obviously you need to check seller credentials and be happy they'll supply the correct product etc.

cnocbui · 23-10-2020 6:25pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

As the OP alluded to, such items are getting intercepted in the post.

That actually happened to me once for a herbal product. Instead of the packet I paid for, I got a snarky letter from some overpaid civl servant telling me I was a naughty boy and I shouldn't do it again because they are so much smarter than me and need to protect me from myself.

I looked into it and Ireland was the only country out of those in the OECD I checked that didn't allow sale. Available in Australia, NZ, UK, USA, Germany, etc, but Irish experts know better than the medical experts in the rest of the OECD, so who am I to argue?

cnocbui · 23-10-2020 6:28pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Plenty of UK eBay sellers will post here. They don't care! My postal address default is Ireland and there's 2 in the first half a dozen listings that would post what you're looking for here. (Pricey postage but still cheaper)

Obviously you need to check seller credentials and be happy they'll supply the correct product etc.

I know, I looked, but no luck.

L1011 · 25-10-2020 2:56am

The cost of licencing a drug here is absolutely obscene - hopefully in time we'll just accept other EU countries licences but the UK is not in the EU anymore. Plenty of generics are never sold here at all due to the cost and effort involved.

highdef · 25-10-2020 3:19am

cnocbui wrote: »

That would be a 570 km round trip, taking 6 hours if driving nonstop, and would take about €80 in petrol.

Think I'll pass on that one.

So you're saying that (at a conservative level considering current petrol prices at the pump) you are using 64 litres of petrol for your return trip of 570km..... What the hell are you driving?!?

Plode · 25-10-2020 4:11am

Check out purepharmacy.ie

They deliver nationwide.

cnocbui · 25-10-2020 4:34am

highdef wrote: »

So you're saying that (at a conservative level considering current petrol prices at the pump) you are using 64 litres of petrol for your return trip of 570km..... What the hell are you driving?!?

Civic Type R. Actually, €64 would probably do it.

Darc19 · 27-10-2020 8:41am

cnocbui wrote: »

I doubt it. I was able to get some over the internet in the past, 3-4 at a time, by using a UK foewarding service but I think Paypal are now supplying your country of residence behind your back so the checkout process bombs.

Try ordering innocuous stuff from a chemist in France, the Netherlands or Belgium, and then add a packet of Aspirin. your checkout will bomb. I kid you not, they have to comply with Irish legislation and if you add an economy packet of Aspirin with 40 tablets, or god forbid, more than one packet, your checkout and sale will be rejected.

There are so many exceptions to the 'common market' in the EU, it's a joke

Your ip address gives your location. - not just country, but local area too.

And whilst it's annoying for something like this, it does protect people as well.

You really think PayPal could be arsed doing this?

cnocbui · 27-10-2020 11:46am

Darc19 wrote: »

Your ip address gives your location. - not just country, but local area too.

And whilst it's annoying for something like this, it does protect people as well.

You really think PayPal could be arsed doing this?

Yes, because I tried using a VPN as well.

cnocbui · 27-10-2020 11:50am

Plode wrote: »

Check out purepharmacy.ie

They deliver nationwide.

I tried them but no generic as far as I could find and the Beconase was a euro more than my local chemist.

gmisk · 27-10-2020 11:53am

There is a big discount pharmacy chain moving into ireland they might be worth a go when they get up and running?
http://chemistwarehouse.ie/
I think I saw signs for it in a retail unit in blanchardstown

Padre_Pio · 27-10-2020 11:58am

cnocbui wrote: »

That actually happened to me once for a herbal product. Instead of the packet I paid for, I got a snarky letter from some overpaid civl servant telling me I was a naughty boy and I shouldn't do it again because they are so much smarter than me and need to protect me from myself.

I looked into it and Ireland was the only country out of those in the OECD I checked that didn't allow sale. Available in Australia, NZ, UK, USA, Germany, etc, but Irish experts know better than the medical experts in the rest of the OECD, so who am I to argue?

Pharmacies usually won't ship international. I tried buying Nurofen plus from the UK, no go, they need a UK address, and Parcel Motel won't work.

noodler · 27-10-2020 12:01pm

How did your doctor write the prescription?

Purely for the brand name?

Poor form, I'd go back and get him to write the medicine chemical ingredient so the pharmacist hands aren't tied or try a different pharmacy.

duffman13 · 27-10-2020 12:03pm

Plode wrote: »

Check out purepharmacy.ie

They deliver nationwide.

They are actually fairly expensive on a lot of OTC medication. They've a cheap tagline on a lot of generic common prescription items but everything else is a mixed bag. Beconase is €7.20 wholesale to pharmacies.

The generic is next to nothing but as mentioned not available without prescription. Personally I have used pharmacy first with parcel motel multiple times with no issues.

https://www.pharmacyfirst.co.uk/triple-pack-beclomethasone-nasal-spray-200-sprays.html

£9.99 for 3 pack and another 3.50 for parcel motel. I buy hay-fever tablets here every year and get 12 months supply for less than £10

Edit: Also meant to mention, if your looking for the prescription version to save the hassle, online doctor is 20 quid and you can get 6 months prescription for it but its probably still 7 or 8 euro for one

cnocbui · 27-10-2020 12:23pm

noodler wrote: »

How did your doctor write the prescription?

Purely for the brand name?

Poor form, I'd go back and get him to write the medicine chemical ingredient so the pharmacist hands aren't tied or try a different pharmacy.

Beconase is over the counter, I don't have a prescription and won't be getting one because of the cost. The main point of my gripe is Irish legislation that says Beconase can be sold over the counter - a one brand monopoly - but a generic that has the same ingredient as Beconase and is 1/5th the cost (in the UK) requires a prescroption - which defeats the whole point of generics. Irish cutery at it's best.

Apart from having a poor health system, Ireland have been cited internationally for the poor availability of generics, as well as for poor and expensive access to medical consultants. In many other OECD countries, you can go straight to a consultant if you know what's wrong with you, without the deliberate financial friction of going to a GP. At every turn, the Irish government deliberately introduces these financial frictions so as to line the pockets of various interest groups - Chemists, Pharmaceutical companies, GPs, or the government itself. Hello VRT, HSE managers, I'm talking about you.

noodler · 27-10-2020 12:29pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Beconase is over the counter, I don't have a prescription and won't be getting one because of the cost. The main point of my gripe is Irish legislation that says Beconase can be sold over the counter - a one brand monopoly - but a generic that has the same ingredient as Beconase and is 1/5th the cost (in the UK) requires a prescroption - which defeats the whole point of generics. Irish cutery at it's best.

Apart from having a poor health system, Ireland have been cited internationally for the poor availability of generics, as well as for poor and expensive access to medical consultants. In many other OECD countries, you can go straight to a consultant if you know what's wrong with you, without the deliberate financial friction of going to a GP. At every turn, the Irish government deliberately introduces these financial frictions so as to line the pockets of various interest groups - Chemists, Pharmaceutical companies, GPs, or the government itself. Hello VRT, HSE managers, I'm talking about you.

I can't understand why you'd need a prescription for a generic (or is it a biosimiliar?) But not the originator.

Rest of your post is just aimless ranting

cnocbui · 27-10-2020 12:45pm

noodler wrote: »

I can't understand why you'd need a prescription for a generic (or is it a biosimiliar?) But not the originator.

Rest of your post is just aimless ranting

Well at least we are in agreement on the central point.

noodler · 27-10-2020 5:16pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Well at least we are in agreement on the central point.

I hope you tried another pharmacy. I am unsure on the finer points of how much leeweigh our pharmacists have to offer a generic or biosimiliar if the doctor prescription says the original brand

duffman13 · 27-10-2020 5:44pm

noodler wrote: »

I hope you tried another pharmacy. I am unsure on the finer points of how much leeweigh our pharmacists have to offer a generic or biosimiliar if the doctor prescription says the original brand

OPs issue is that the brand is available OTC but the generic version is prescription only despite having the same active ingredient. Its a licensing issue.

noodler · 27-10-2020 5:46pm

duffman13 wrote: »

OPs issue is that the brand is available OTC but the generic version is prescription only despite having the same active ingredient. Its a licensing issue.

I didn't think such an anomaly was possible unless the generic has a different chemical composition.

That's why I am positing an alternative.

screamer · 27-10-2020 5:50pm

I’ve noticed OTC medicine prices have been steadily increasing in tandem with prescription costs reducing. I don’t think it’s licensing that’s the issue, someone had to pay for the pharmacists 202 Beemer, and it seems OTC fits the bill.

duffman13 · 27-10-2020 5:52pm

noodler wrote: »

I didn't think such an anomaly was possible unless the generic has a different chemical composition.

That's why I am positing an alternative.

Unfortunately it is. OTC medication is licensed specifically, each individual product has to be licensed. Simple examples like Ibuprofen, Paracetamol, Cetrizine etc are all given individual licenses to specific products. Its why you can get 24p 500mg paracetamol but cheapest you will get down here is about €2 even thought there are 6 or 7 different brands. There are cheaper alternatives available and multiple brands of the above examples but generally, the really cheap stuff isnt available here.

Your comment about generics is specifically related to dispensed items by the pharmacist (In Ireland anyway) where the pharmacist will usually substitute for the cheapest available product as opposed to the brand listed

duffman13 · 27-10-2020 5:54pm

screamer wrote: »

I’ve noticed OTC medicine prices have been steadily increasing in tandem with prescription costs reducing. I don’t think it’s licensing that’s the issue, someone had to pay for the pharmacists 202 Beemer, and it seems OTC fits the bill.

Prescription costs are reducing because pharmacies here have gotten much better at sourcing cheaper generics and using parallel imports. This is the primary revenue for most pharmacies bar maybe Boots. OTC has been steadily increasing though, I will agree there :mad:

noodler · 27-10-2020 6:04pm

duffman13 wrote: »

Unfortunately it is. OTC medication is licensed specifically, each individual product has to be licensed. Simple examples like Ibuprofen, Paracetamol, Cetrizine etc are all given individual licenses to specific products. Its why you can get 24p 500mg paracetamol but cheapest you will get down here is about €2 even thought there are 6 or 7 different brands. There are cheaper alternatives available and multiple brands of the above examples but generally, the really cheap stuff isnt available here.

Your comment about generics is specifically related to dispensed items by the pharmacist (In Ireland anyway) where the pharmacist will usually substitute for the cheapest available product as opposed to the brand listed

Thanks for answering that.

secondrowgal · 27-10-2020 6:37pm

Every medicinal product is licensed specifically in Ireland. It's not just OTCs.

I checked the HPRA site and the only Beclometasone nasal spray licensed in Ireland is Beconase. So there doesn't appear to be any generics registered here, and therefore available. I don't know what your pharmacist is talking about.

Also, it's the holder of the licence that requests the dispensing status - it has to be agreed by the HPRA of course, but if the brand leader is OTC you can be sure that the generic licence holder will also want an OTC licence. If this isn't available, then it hasn't been licensed. The government don't control this.

With respect to the cost of licensing medicines in Ireland, Ireland is very reasonable in this regard. For instance to register a generic of Beconase in Ireland would be €10,200. The same registration in the UK could be ~£9K or as much as £25K, depending on the data.

Pharmaceuticals rip-off, courtesy of the government

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