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MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

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Comments

  • #2
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,257 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    BobbyBobberson wrote: »
    Looks like its happening. What is the impact in all honesty?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1097405369582866434

    might this be the first time she gets something right?


  • #3
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,020 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    BobbyBobberson wrote: »
    Looks like its happening. What is the impact in all honesty?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1097405369582866434
    Off-the-cuff reaction? Let's see how many MPs are involved and who they are. But my instinct is that a split at this stage is not going to make it any easier to resolve the UK's crisis and avoid a no-deal Brexit.


  • #4
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,984 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Off-the-cuff reaction? Let's see how many MPs are involved and who they are. But my instinct is that a split at this stage is not going to make it any easier to resolve the UK's crisis and avoid a no-deal Brexit.
    The split's been there for some time. This will just be a confirmation of the numbers I think.

    When you have nonsense like this, you know it's inevitable.


  • #5
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,636 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Ive been kind of ignoring this labour anti-semitism stuff assuming it was all just red-top nonsense and distraction, is there any substance to it at all?


  • #6
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    4 :rolleyes:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47274905
    At least four backbenchers who disagree with the Labour leadership over its handling of Brexit and anti-Semitism are thought likely to break away.


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  • #7
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Ive been kind of ignoring this labour anti-semitism stuff assuming it was all just red-top nonsense and distraction, is there any substance to it at all?


    My own impression was much like yours, I thought it was just a storm in a teacup against Labour. However the fact that is just keeps rumbling on and on and on makes me think there is more to it. The best case scenario for Labour is that Corbyn, as the head of the organization, is just unlucky that he liked an anti-semitic cartoon on social media without knowing it. That he has been unknowingly caught in situations where the accusation of anti-semitism against him can be lodged. At worst (and probably most likely), he is an anti-semite and he is allowing it to fester in Labour.


  • #8
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,573 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    4 :rolleyes:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47274905

    begs belief,

    There is a call for a centre party in a UK where the majority dont feel they are being represented.

    If Farage can pop out parties like Maltesers then why cant a few labour MPS get their act together. Even if it doesn't halt brexit. They would do extremely well given the gulf in representation


  • #9
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,186 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Ive been kind of ignoring this labour anti-semitism stuff assuming it was all just red-top nonsense and distraction, is there any substance to it at all?

    The labour anti semitism was a load of nonsense it was part of a strategy by the labour blairites to lever under Corbyn to get him out.

    Any party that's formed from a labour split now will move back into the fold once Corbyn is gone.


  • #10
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,636 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    listermint wrote: »
    begs belief,

    There is a call for a centre party in a UK where the majority dont feel they are being represented.

    If Farage can pop out parties like Maltesers then why cant a few labour MPS get their act together. Even if it doesn't halt brexit. They would do extremely well given the gulf in representation


    Unfortunately that's not true due to FPTP massively favoring larger more established parties.

    A split from either labour or the tories will simply benefit the other


  • #11
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,573 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Unfortunately that's not true due to FPTP massively favoring larger more established parties.

    A split from either labour or the tories will simply benefit the other

    Then why were the Tories so fearful of UKIP - consistently i might ad ??
    I get FPTP but Farage is able to do what he likes


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  • #12
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    listermint wrote: »
    Then why were the Tories so fearful of UKIP - consistently i might ad ??
    I get FPTP but Farage is able to do what he likes

    Marginal seats?


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    listermint wrote: »
    Then why were the Tories so fearful of UKIP - consistently i might ad ??
    I get FPTP but Farage is able to do what he likes

    Except get elected to HoC...

    I assume they were fearful as UKIP were taking away some younger voters. Tory membership is an endangered species, due to the average age of Tory members.


  • #14
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    listermint wrote: »
    begs belief,

    There is a call for a centre party in a UK where the majority dont feel they are being represented.

    The Liberal Democrats always struck me as being a good centre option between Labour and the Conservatives. However, like most junior coalition partners they seem to have blotted their copybook with the last government and so their chances of becoming a significant political force have waned.

    Also, as has been said many times in this thread, the First Past the Post system of single MP constituencies makes it very hard for such parties to come to power


  • #15
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,573 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    The Liberal Democrats always struck me as being a good centre option between Labour and the Conservatives. However, like most junior coalition partners they seem to have blotted their copybook with the last government and so their chances of becoming a significant political force have waned.

    Also, as has been said many times in this thread, the First Past the Post system of single MP constituencies makes it very hard for such parties to come to power

    They have an extremely poor leadership and blotted their copybook with that. The name is tarnished.


  • #16
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    4 :rolleyes:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47274905

    Others are saying they're not actually leaving, just threatening to leave.

    We'll know soon enough, the press conference starts in a few minutes.

    edit: Well it is a bunch who resigned.


  • #17
    BobbyBobberson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭BobbyBobberson


    listermint wrote: »
    They have an extremely poor leadership and blotted their copybook with that. The name is tarnished.

    Yup. The students fees and also allowing benefit sanctions in exchange for the plastic bag levy has given them a bad name amongst younger voters.


  • #18
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,082 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    From the EU perspective this is irrelevant. It doesn’t affect the realities of where we are and the dilemma of three “impossible” outcomes, one of which needs to be decisively moved towards over the coming couple of weeks:

    - No Deal
    - May’s Deal
    - A50 revocation

    I’ll be tuning out the Westminster politico drama bubble around it, because it’s completely irrelevant


  • #19
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    listermint wrote: »
    They have an extremely poor leadership and blotted their copybook with that. The name is tarnished.

    Back in 2017, when it might have made a difference, a remain voter would have to choose which party/leader best served their interests. Outside of Scotland (which was mostly SNP voting), it would've made a lot of sense to vote for the party most in favour of remaining so that there would be real debate. Ok, Farron was something of a place holder at that stage, but was he any worse than Jeremy Corbyn? The party itself showed leadership in the sense that they actively took a position on Brexit.

    I suppose as the largest party that was actually against Brexit (other than SNP) they had an opportunity to allow remain voters to choose an MP who represents their views. But they did not do so. Now there is only limited opposition to Brexit in Westminster, mostly coming from SNP.


  • #20
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    BobbyBobberson wrote: »
    Yup. The students fees and also allowing benefit sanctions in exchange for the plastic bag levy has given them a bad name amongst younger voters.

    It might be worth looking at the last time a split in the Labour party led to a new party - the Social Democrats.

    Some initial success - eventually leading to an amalgamation with the old Liberal party to form the Liberal Democrats. When the Lib-Dems got the opportunity to go into coalition - they did. They took all the blame and got wiped out (almost). Just like the Green Party here suffered from - not strong enough nor wiley enough to shift the blame.

    Same problem that all small parties suffer from - FPTP.


  • #21
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    7 Labour MP's resigned. Antisemitism seems to be the main driver rather than Brexit.


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  • #22
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jeremy Corbyn's poor leadership has now resulted in the break-up of his party.

    Luciana Berger
    Gavin Shuker
    Chuka Umunna
    Ann Coffey
    Mike Gapes
    Angela Smith
    Chris Leslie

    Have all tendered their resignations and have formed their own Independent group due to Antisemitism and Brexit by the looks of things, very sad day for British politics in a way but you can hardly blame them.


  • #23
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,230 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    A bunch of Labour MPs have resigned the whip, based on opposition to anti semitism. I think the number is 7

    They don't seem to care about brexit.


  • #24
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    listermint wrote: »
    They have an extremely poor leadership and blotted their copybook with that. The name is tarnished.

    I always find this argument amazing.

    LibDems are busted because, as a junior partner in a coalition government they clearly got taken advantage of.

    But Blair, and Labour, brought the UK into a war the majority of the UK did not want.

    The Tories are now in charge of probably the most dysfunctional government in UK history. Even staunch Brexiteers claim that they are making a pig ears of the whole thing, with the line that Brexit would be easy only for TM etc.

    Yet they continue to keep the main support. It really makes no sense so I put the aversion to the LibDems as little more that party loyalty dressed up as some stand up against lies.


  • #25
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    devnull wrote: »
    Jeremy Corbyn's poor leadership has now resulted in the break-up of his party.
    In time, it will be: "Jeremy Corbyn's poor leadership has now contributed to the break-up of his country."


  • #26
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,230 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ok, they're talking about brexit now. Corbyn's lack of movement towards a people's vote


  • #27
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Akrasia wrote: »
    A bunch of Labour MPs have resigned the whip, based on opposition to anti semitism. I think the number is 7

    They don't seem to care about brexit.

    Some of them resigned from Labour due to anti-semitism and some because of Brexit, maybe you should listen to all of the MPs, who will give their reasons on their own, rather than saying the first person to speak has the same reasons as the rest?

    Either way Corbyn's poor leadership and 'For me, not for you' rather than the claimed 'For the many, not the few' mantra he's been living recently means they had little choice - they tried to make JC see sense and he wouldn't, if you simply can't address the problem you get out, and that's what they did.


  • #28
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Have the seven resigned the whip or resigned from the Labour party entirely?


  • #29
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Goods news to see Labour decline and degrade further. It also strengtens Teresa May's hand and increases even more the almost foregone conclusion of a Hard no-deal brexit.


  • #30
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,146 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Akrasia wrote: »
    A bunch of Labour MPs have resigned the whip, based on opposition to anti semitism. I think the number is 7

    Not the whip, they've left the party altogether.


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  • #31
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    theguzman wrote: »
    Goods news to see Labour decline and degrade further. It also strengtens Teresa May's hand and increases even more the almost foregone conclusion of a Hard no-deal brexit.

    It is never good news in a democracy to have a weak opposition.

    The Tories ended up out of government for 20 years the last time they were faced with a poor opposition who eventually got its act together.


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