But who will look after you when you're old?

Faith · 07-04-2021 9:01am #1

It's one we've all heard, but what are your thoughts on it? Is it something that worries you? Have you ever actually thought about your life as a childfree older adult and how that might look? Do you have it all planned out?

pinkypinky · 07-04-2021 9:43am

I've thought about how I don't want it to look - with reference to some family members.

For me, it meant starting a pension really early, buying a property when I could (much harder to do solo) and planning as best I can.

I have said to my (very small) niece, that she'll get the empire once she visits me in the home regularly!

It doesn't worry me though, because even if I was married and had kids, these things would not guarantee being looked after in my old age. Some people die young and their spouse is widowed for a long time.

07-04-2021 11:29am

I think there’s a wider question here than just your offspring or lack thereof.

Families are much smaller than they once were- and if you come from a small family in the first place you’ve even less people to rely on which means the importance of social engagement wide network of friends etc is so important.

While it’s likely those with children may be better set up in their retirement when it comes to any care requirements it’s certainly not a universal truth - immigration, falling out with family, selfishness or lack of caring for others, etc are all things that may impact whether or not your children support you when you’re old.

It’s a question we all should ask ourselves and just because you have children don’t assume they’ll be there for you in your hours or years of need.

That was one of the benefits of large families and local, especially agricultural communities years ago -3 generations of family all living close by to each other- it had it’s benefits this being one of them - were much more urbanites now living further from our original family homes due mainly work and cost circumstances

07-04-2021 11:42am

I'm a very independent person and I don't like to rely on anyone for anything, even now.
When people say this to me I just tell them all the money I have, that I didn't spend on my non existent children, will allow me to pay for any living assistance I will require.
I hate the thoughts of any member of my family having to help me when I'm old.

The_Conductor · 07-04-2021 11:47am

I just don't understand the concept that anyone would expect their children- or anyone else's children (as adults) to look after them in their old age.

I know where I'm going to be living when I'm elderly (helpfully I own it already, I inherited it from my own parents)- and it requires little/no modification to make it user friendly for someone with mobility and/or other issues (kind of helpful seeing as though I'm only in my 40s I already have arthritis, Crohns, Sarcoidosis and a list of other chronic conditions).

I don't understand why anyone would place an obligation on children- or anyone else, to look after them.

I accept there is a fiercely independent streak in me- however, I cannot get my mind around how/why anyone would expect their offspring to look after them in their old age, its just an alien concept to me.

R.D. aka MR.D · 07-04-2021 11:48am

I have had quite a lot of childless relatives and they were almost better taken care of by family at the end!

But i think for us, without the added lifetime costs of kids, we'll be able to afford care for ourselves.

We will also retire outside of Ireland to somewhere there is better weather as we won't have the grandkids to worry about. I think that for me, retirement is something to look forward to as it will finally mean complete freedom as I won't have to work.

We also will likely to leave any money to charity, although I plan on spending every penny I can!

paperflights · 07-04-2021 11:50am

It's not something I plan. Anyway, growing old isn't even guaranteed. Who knows what will happen to any of us on any given day. I certainly think it's a ridiculous argument and I refuse to suffer for years having children I don't want on the premise that they'll look after me when I'm old.

zedhead · 07-04-2021 11:57am

This is always my mums argument when I tell her I don't think i want children, but even if we had children there is no guarantee they will look after you. You could end up with a special needs child who you will have to care for into your old age, and then worry about what will happen to them when you are no longer there. You could have a bad relationship with your children or fall out with them so you do not speak. As mentioned you could tragicly lose your children before you pass. They could emigrate and not be around.

I think having children just to have someone to look after you is a terrible reason to have them.

I will be planning for my old age on the assumption that I will need to look after myself.

dobman88 · 07-04-2021 11:57am

Only once I've been asked that question by a woman I worked with. Her 2 kids are 2 complete little brats, absolutely nothing likeable about them. She used to bring them into work on her days off "for the chats" and the kids would run riot. Boss told her to stop bringing them. I said kids seemed like a lot of work and wasn't for me. So the she asked who will look after me when I'm old. Asked her was that the only reason she had kids and she said yes. I found that quite sad so just laughed and walked away.

JoChervil · 07-04-2021 12:09pm

I never thought it was fair to expect care from kids in an older age. Kids don’t come to the world with this agreement made by them. If I had kids I would love some help or visits but coming from their heart and from their need to do it, not from the obligation. I would hate, if someone thought that they have to do it for me.

And what if my kid would like to live abroad? I would want all the best for them. I wouldn’t like them to feel guilty that they are not around.

My life is my responsibility and no one’s else, so I must take care of arranging it for my older years. I think our partners, who willingly can take such an obligation to be there for an older years could only be a bonus then.

That’s why it is so important to have your circle of friends, your own interests and be on good terms with your siblings.

Neyite · 07-04-2021 1:15pm

dobman88 wrote: »

Only once I've been asked that question by a woman I worked with. Her 2 kids are 2 complete little brats, absolutely nothing likeable about them. She used to bring them into work on her days off "for the chats" and the kids would run riot. Boss told her to stop bringing them. I said kids seemed like a lot of work and wasn't for me. So the she asked who will look after me when I'm old. Asked her was that the only reason she had kids and she said yes. I found that quite sad so just laughed and walked away.

There's still zero guarantee that they would. They aren't obliged to.

There's a lot of variables that could mean that even if you did try to prepare for your dotage by having a few kids, they could all end up living enough away from you to be of no use to you.That's happened in our family. Or their spouses could change the goalposts as well. I know someone who would have moved in with her son like a shot but she's not keen on the wife so it'll never be on the table.

I know a carer who went above and beyond for the person they cared for even moving them into her home to care for in their final days rather than the nursing home which the person dreaded. Cared for the person like it was her own parent. The carer subsequently got a very pleasant and life changing surprise in the will.

07-04-2021 1:38pm

I know 2 older lads, when they went to transfer assets to the kids, were warned against it by their solicitors. Basically once they had the assets there was no reason to look after the lads and in each case they could end up being turfed out of the house. They were advised to leave the transfer to the will.

These were rural lads with land and the family home.

NSAman · 07-04-2021 1:45pm

While I am not childless... I do not want my kids to look after me at all.

If for any reason I am incapable of looking after myself, I would prefer not to be around.

Having looked after a parent for years, it opened my eyes as to the amount of effort it takes. Don’t get me wrong, I loved my dad and was happy and glad to be able to give him back some of what he gave me growing up, in terms of care.

BUT...it got me thinking about my own kids. Do I want them doing the same for me? No!

Be it stroke or anything that leaves me incapacitated, then I do not want to be around...I know it opens the big question.

dobman88 · 07-04-2021 1:58pm

Neyite wrote: »

There's still zero guarantee that they would. They aren't obliged to.

Yeah, I know. That's why I laughed and walked away from her. Mental reason for having kids, whether she meant it 100% or not.

07-04-2021 2:18pm

Have a really decent personal solicitor on hand. I'll need to ignore all the "xieann, you really really messed my life up, I want PAYBACK from you!!!"

Recliner · 07-04-2021 2:26pm

Childless by choice here.
I've been asked by a former female colleague "Who will look after you when you're old?" and "Who will bury you?".

Also told by another female colleague that I was selfish for not having children.
She has fertility issues and her rationale was that anyone who potentially could have children, should have them because so many women didn't have the choice.
I think I just stood there with my mouth open. Like WTAF!!!
Mind you the same person didn't consider my wedding a "real and proper" one as it was a civil ceremony.
So there you go..

07-04-2021 2:40pm

Recliner wrote: »

Mind you the same person didn't consider my wedding a "real and proper" one as it was a civil ceremony.

I've gotten that too

R.D. aka MR.D · 07-04-2021 2:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've gotten that too

Me three!!!

I usually just say, ah well sure i have the piece of paper!

People can be very odd and unwilling to comprehend something outside their immediate sphere of experience.

pinkypinky · 07-04-2021 2:59pm

Recliner wrote: »

Also told by another female colleague that I was selfish for not having children.
She has fertility issues and her rationale was that anyone who potentially could have children, should have them because so many women didn't have the choice.

Reminds me of a time a friend told me I should not exercise my Seanad vote as a protest because not all universities can elect to the Seanad...

Faith · 07-04-2021 9:13pm

This is a complex question for me. Because of the nature of my work, I've worked with older adults dying alone despite having families, I've worked with adults whose lives have been basically ruined by their kids and I've worked with loving parents whose children have died or had severe life-limiting illnesses. So I feel like I've seen first-hand proof of children being no guarantee of support as an adult. I also see a lot of people sandwiched between their children and their elderly parents requiring care, and that just seems like hell to me.

Personally, my only sibling moved to the other side of the world, and for many many years I lived outside of Ireland with no plans to return, so my parents had no guarantee of their kids being around.

I find the idea of growing older is a strong motivator for me to develop a circle of childfree friends, tbh. I love the idea of a Florida-style retirement village with lots of people in a similar boat to me, and I hope that kind of thing becomes more common (I actually have one designed in my head for Ireland but that may never make it out of my head!).

As others have mentioned, I will likely save a lot of money over the years from not having kids and can use that to pay for care, if I need it. I too wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone and I'd be happier to pay for care than for anyone to feel obliged to look after me!

Bodjhrjekekr · 09-04-2021 12:14am

Faith wrote: »

I love the idea of a Florida-style retirement village with lots of people in a similar boat to me, and I hope that kind of thing becomes more common (I actually have one designed in my head for Ireland but that may never make it out of my head!).

that actually sounds like a great idea - life shouldn't be over when you are elderly, would be nice to live with people in the same boat if you are at the stage when you need extra care.

beauf · 09-04-2021 12:51am

Faith wrote: »

....
I find the idea of growing older is a strong motivator for me to develop a circle of childfree friends, tbh. I love the idea of a Florida-style retirement village with lots of people in a similar boat to me, and I hope that kind of thing becomes more common (I actually have one designed in my head for Ireland but that may never make it out of my head!).
...

Good luck finding that in Ireland.

Don't expect friends or family or kids to be around when you get old. Theres a reason loneliness is a big issue for the elderly.

If someone is unselfish with their help, empathetic and caring, they will be like when they are kids and all through their life. People who aren't won't change their spots and you already know they they are fair weather friends (or family) and really only look out for themselves.

Tbh lockdown should have made this more obvious. I think it's always interesting how much of someone's conversation they devote to themselves and what % asking about others.

beauf · 09-04-2021 1:07am

I dunno anyone who thinks their kids will look after them. Kids will do whatever the heck they like.

Tbh if you've settled permanently a long way from your parents you've already made that decision for your own parents. Regardless if you realise you've done it or not. But that's not a judgment. There's no right or wrong. It's just that people choose to live their lives differently.

Sunny Disposition · 09-04-2021 8:41am

Dunno anyone who ever had kids as a retirement policy tbh, would be utter madness to do so. And it’d be crazy to suggest someone have a kid to mind them when they are old.

Jequ0n · 09-04-2021 8:57am

To have a child in order to be looked after in old age is one of the most selfish reasons I can think of and I would probably reply just that.

Faith · 09-04-2021 9:04am

beauf wrote: »

Don't expect friends or family or kids to be around when you get old. Theres a reason loneliness is a big issue for the elderly.

I wonder how much this is a chicken and egg scenario. How much of it is family and friends not being around because they're busy with their own lives/selfish/don't care/moved away etc, and how much of it is as a result of life circumstances such as living in isolated locations and/or not having invested in friendships over the years because their family was more important and there was a presumption the family would automatically be around to provide care and company in later years?

If we all planned for our retirement years and planned that we'd have to be responsible for making sure that we could access care and company, without assuming family would provide that for us, would it change the degree of loneliness experienced in older adulthood? It would likely involve making changes that might be hard, like selling a large family home and moving to a different area or community, for example.

Deeec · 09-04-2021 9:06am

My advice would be to have legal docs drawn up regarding who will look after you if you become incapacitated. Also discuss this with your family so everybody knows what your wishes are.

I have a childless unmarried uncle who developed dementia. I found myself looking after him as nobody else assumed the role even though we are a close family. I looked after him for a while at home which was extremely difficult. When it was clear he was a danger to himself and unable to manage I had to organise for him to go to a nursing home. I am still responsible for organising his fair deal scheme ( which is cumbersome when you are know nothing about the persons financial affairs and they cant tell you), his clothing needs etc. which are paid out of my own pocket. I have a family of my own and this extra role of his care is time consuming. I also dont benefit from his will - the person who inherits his estate ( whatever is left after fair deal) does nothing to help me out. The most important thing is that he is happy in the nursing home but from my point of view it has been tough.

It has been such a messy process from a legal and emotional point of view. It is so important to speak to your solicitor to have plans made should you become unable to speak for yourself. Unfortunately there wont be people queing up to help you out should this happen.

R.D. aka MR.D · 09-04-2021 10:17am

Deeec wrote: »

My advice would be to have legal docs drawn up regarding who will look after you if you become incapacitated. Also discuss this with your family so everybody knows what your wishes are.

I have a childless unmarried uncle who developed dementia. I found myself looking after him as nobody else assumed the role even though we are a close family. I looked after him for a while at home which was extremely difficult. When it was clear he was a danger to himself and unable to manage I had to organise for him to go to a nursing home. I am still responsible for organising his fair deal scheme ( which is cumbersome when you are know nothing about the persons financial affairs and they cant tell you), his clothing needs etc. which are paid out of my own pocket. I have a family of my own and this extra role of his care is time consuming. I also dont benefit from his will - the person who inherits his estate ( whatever is left after fair deal) does nothing to help me out. The most important thing is that he is happy in the nursing home but from my point of view it has been tough.

It has been such a messy process from a legal and emotional point of view. It is so important to speak to your solicitor to have plans made should you become unable to speak for yourself. Unfortunately there wont be people queing up to help you out should this happen.

This happened in my family as well, more than once! Usually female members of the family took on caring for childless relatives and then the estate went to the oldest male relative who didn't do a tap.

Totally agree that thinga should be written down. I saw that with my own grandmother, she had always repeatedly told us she wanted to go to a home as she had cared for more than one elderly relative but when she got dementia, it took her getting hurt while unsupervised (family can't provide 24hr care) to force the issue. She had made it clear many times what she wanted but it was just ignored when the time came. It was coming from a kind place but i certainly would hate to think my wishes would be ignored like that.

beauf · 09-04-2021 10:33am

Faith wrote: »

...and/or not having invested in friendships over the years because their family was more important and there was a presumption the family would automatically be around to provide care and company in later years?
...

Doesn't matter how much time you "invest". It's just human nature. The majority of people just are too wrapped up in themselves.

GreeBo · 09-04-2021 10:36am

If you are having children so that they can look after you then I'd suggest you are having them for the wrong reason.

Deja Boo · 11-04-2021 3:21am

GreeBo wrote: »

If you are having children so that they can look after you then I'd suggest you are having them for the wrong reason.

True enough... but when the time comes, it may be a valid concern.

But who will look after you when you're old?

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