Addiction - are all of the studies flawed?

Ha! that scenario is only one chapter in "Dimensions of Miracles" (published 1968). Another chapter has our "hero" visit an Earth where every item of clothing has a large logo advertising the Company that made it. That one seems to have arrived.

[ed: Though I could be confusing the VR besotted Earth with a different book or even a different Author]

Ireland's not a good advert for Moderate use of Alcohol though.
http://www.barkeeper.ie/News_Item.asp?News_ID=711

We don't gather good statistics. It maybe about 40 to 300 people a year die as a result of Alcohol consumption & driving?
http://www.rotr.ie/conference/presentations/Declan_Bedford_rsa_131008.pdf

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/drinkdriving-kills-120-every-year-on-roads-expert-claims-1498116.html

However compared with
a) The number that Drink and Drive (about 7,000 caught).
b) The number of people that Drink.

Is prohibition the answer? Probably not.

There are no statistics in any meaningful sense for Drug taking and driving, but the Drugs Testing article suggests it's as big a problem. Or maybe bigger depending on the effects of each drug and amount used and number of users.

You deleted more than that.

Oh sweet Joseph, husband of Mary but not father of sweet Jesus.
5 years here and most of that spent reading AH.
In all that time, I thought I had read some really retarded things, but some of the stuff in this thread really takes the biscuit.

Boston wrote: »

Maybe it would work on another topic. But if you're arguing that a typically lethal substance can be used safely you better be talking from a position of authority and well able to back up those claims. You also better be able to detail exactly what you mean by safe and the circumstances when it is a valid assertion. Now both vinylmesh JC 2k3 have made some lazy, open ended, and tilted comments which leave a lot of room for interpretation. The reason they've done this is because they are not doctors and they can't actually comment with confidence. It's comments like "relative" which I really take umbrage with. Compared the Black Tar Heroin, Pure Heroin is "safe" but compared to a nice cup of Tea it isn't.

I get what you're saying but if the forum is for lazy and unsubstantiated debating, then lets just merge it with the cuckoo's nest and have done with it.

Boston, it is my firm belief that vinylmesh is a troll.
As a result, I will not be replying to any of his posts in this thread (bar one thing).

I have pointed this out to the mods of this forum before, but they chose to ignore it.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The first post reminds me of one I read on a football forum, where someone said that unless you'd played football at a high enough level, you couldn't comment.

People are entitled to make general statements, and we shouldn't need to have a degree in medicine to comment.

Regarding drug use and the dangers thereof - if you were to look at crime rates in this country in relation to violence and gun crime, and in countries like America, etc, you would find that a huge proportion of the crimes were caused by drugs. Often heroin. However, even more so than the drugs, the cause was the criminalisation of the drugs.

If heroin was offered for sale cheaply and legally, with easy access to clean needles, etc, do you think drug related crime would go down in Dublin?

If heroin was legally available, it would not reduce the addictiveness of it. The reason most heroin related crimes are committed is that the junkies need money for their fix. Legalisation will not make this go away.

lizzyvera wrote: »

If heroin was legal, and the amounts you could take were limited, there would still be a black market for people who want to abuse it.

Methadone is legal and has a similar effect to heroin. Many other opiates are legal and controlled. There is still a street heroin problem. Other than the physical problems caused by addiction- addicts will still spend every penny they can on heroin and neglect themselves and their children. It would in no way solve the social problems for the addicts.

I'm all for personal responsibilty and making your own choices, but not with heroin. People aren't sensible enough for that kind of freedom. There is too much misinformation about drugs. You get people on either side telling lies like the evil uber conservatives saying "hash destroys your brain" and daft mislead libertarians saying "pure heroin is safe". Anyway, there is no personal responsibility or risk assessment when you are addicted- the very organ you USE for making decisions has been permanantly rewired by then!

I hardly blame people who do get addicted, it's almost impossible to get honest unbiased advice or know who to listen to. The only place I can get good information on these drugs is in scientific journals which firstly, cost a lot to subscribe to and secondly, are scientific writings, so not everybody could read and understand them.

Legalising cannabis would reduce crime and is another matter, because it is not addictive. The addictiveness of heroin is what causes all the problems.

Cannabis is addictive. To think otherwise is quite idiotic.
I didn't find it as addictive as nicotine or even caffeine (in my experience.), but it is addictive.
Do not underestimate its effect. To do so would be quite foolish.
I have seen it turn normal people into gibbering idiots who will never hold down a job.

vinylmesh wrote: »

My exact words were;


I am not an expert in drugs, and was merely relaying what i had read on countless websites, the general consensus being that from a medical point of view heroin does not cause any noticeable harm to the body. I can give you links to all these websites if you want.

As for tolerance, It can go down (rather quickly i would gather from stories of people dying from taking heroin after a period of abstainance due to decreased tolerance). I would have linked tolerance more with an increase in specific enzymes rather than any harmful effects on the body.

Shooting yourself point blank in the head will not kill you.
You are reading this on a website, so it must be true.

Of course it's not true. Anyone can create a website and create their own agenda.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well, what you quoted was referring to drugs in general. But yes, I do think people take heroin to induce pleasant sensations, that's sort of the idea.....

(It might be a way to escape from the pains of life etc. in some people, but it's the pleasant sensations that facilitate this).

JC 2K3, your views on drugs are naive at best.
I'm addicted to xanax. I have been for at least 11 years. I can't actually remember when I began taking them because the past 11 or 12 years are a blur.
Believe me when I tell you that I do not want to be addicted to xanax.
Yeah, I sometimes get a bit of a buzz off them, but it's not worth it. It really isn't.

As for heroin; anyone who thinks that you can regularly take it without it consuming your life is a complete and utter idiot.

If you are taking it, I suggest you stop right now. If you don't, it will completely take over your life. To think otherwise is really ****ing retarded.
If you choose to ignore this warning and continue to use it, then I hope you ****ing die a horrible death because you really ****ing deserve it.
Seriously. How ****ing stupid do you have to be to take a drug that will totally overwhelm you and your life?

Expand your horizons?
Expand this (picture me giving you the finger and then mooning you).

[Sarcasm]Oh yeah, man. Drugs are great. They really help you think clearly and you see things that you wouldn't otherwise see.[/sarcasm]
It's called hallucinating, you dumb ****s. The flu will give you the same buzz.

To those of you who will no doubt sneer at my post, I ask you this: How the **** are you alive? How does your brain send the required signals from your brains to your lungs to cause you to breathe?

Drugs really are bad, mmmmkay. Take the word of someone addicted to caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and xanax.
There is no such thing as recreational use (with the exception of alcohol).

Want to expand your horizons?
Go travel the world (Bali, Thailand and Australia do not count). Learn a new language. Try acting or writing. Explore your home town and look at its history.
Trust me when I tell you that you will get addicted to heroin if you keep doing it.
When you do get addicted, send me a PM and I'll buy your pc for €50. I look forward to hearing from you, taking the pc you bought for €2,000 for €50 and then spitting on you when you are strung out on the quays.

I apologise to all the calm, balanced posters that replied, but I'm locking this thread.
It's a trainwreck.

If someone wants to find a credible, well sourced article on the true harmfulness of drugs (I would suggest the British one that ranked drugs in order of harm) then they can start a new thread.

This one is closed and it is remaining closed.