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expanding foam on my waterpipes(hydrodare)

  • 21-05-2020 11:08am
    #1
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭


    Hi Guys,
    Just wondering if it's safe to cover my water pipes in expanding foam to insulate them?
    I was just thinking they might eat them a bit??

    Thanks

    IMAG4568.jpg?raw=1


Comments

  • #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I wouldn’t recommend it.
    The foam breaks down over time.

    Use a proper product.


  • #3
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭magnethead


    THanks, I know spray foam can break down over time when exposed to UV, but I didn't realize it would do so, even underground.

    Can you recommend the proper product?


  • #4
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    What are the water pipes for?


  • #5
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭Who2


    High density pipe lagging and tape the joints.


  • #6
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭magnethead


    Hi, the pipes are for water....would be about 30cm under a concrete slab at the back of the house...

    Tec7 wouldn't just be trying to shift product here :) ..Apparently the polyurethane pipes are fairly nonreactive and won't have a problem with the foam.

    https://tec7.ie/how-to-guides/how-to-insulate-underground-pipes/


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  • #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    magnethead wrote: »
    Hi, the pipes are for water....would be about 30cm under a concrete slab at the back of the house...

    Tec7 wouldn't just be trying to shift product here :) ..Apparently the polyurethane pipes are fairly nonreactive and won't have a problem with the foam.

    https://tec7.ie/how-to-guides/how-to-insulate-underground-pipes/

    We know there for water. You said that in the OP.
    What are they feeding. What is the source.
    Are they heated and cooled etc

    Otherwise just look at the mains feed regulations in the technical guidance document t to get a depth they must be to prevent freezing. Also the water NYE laws that the roads crew use may be helpful.


  • #8
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭magnethead


    Thanks Gumbo, they are just the supply and return lines for an external cold water tank for my new house, because the internal water pumps are so loud. (I added an outside tap pipe since which comes from the plant room too)

    I'm kinda limited on the depth, as I'm down to the foundation of that wall at about 40cm...Just thinking, would a foundation slab be colder due to conduction from the wall?

    I can't find any technical document here labelled 't' like you said above
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-d-materials-and-workmanship/technical-guidance-documents

    The code of practice for laying 300mm water mains is 750-900mm depth.
    http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-your-drinking-water-builders-and-developers

    Depth for Medium density PE pipes...again 750ml...crap,that's a lot deeper then I thought
    https://www.jdpipes.co.uk/knowledge/mains-supply/how-deep-should-mdpe-be-installed.html


  • #9
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    With outdoor pipes like this insulating them doesn't actually do much because as soon as the insulation is wet through it won't really perform . That's why on proper sites the pipes are clad to keep them dry.

    Bury them deep is the best option . Some people will still throw some insulation on anyway just so the pipe isn't cast directly into the slab or footpath, but the performance of them falls off dramatically if they are wet on both sides.


  • #10
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭magnethead


    Yeah, there will be a footpath going over this whole area, would putting them in a 4" soil pipe help? If I am limited to only getting them about 40cm under the footpath surface?


  • #11
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭magnethead


    Outkast, are you talking about this kinda cladding?
    https://mybuildingsupplies.ie/product/pipe-insulation-34-2-metre?gclid=CjwKCAjw2a32BRBXEiwAUcugiPRnMZc5hBGjd-thNfWwN0abhH9pje0JB0W_f3hZptxe0WXp0x_JZRoCEpUQAvD_BwE

    Outkast_IRE wrote: »
    With outdoor pipes like this insulating them doesn't actually do much because as soon as the insulation is wet through it won't really perform . That's why on proper sites the pipes are clad to keep them dry.

    Bury them deep is the best option . Some people will still throw some insulation on anyway just so the pipe isn't cast directly into the slab or footpath, but the performance of them falls off dramatically if they are wet on both sides.


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  • #12
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    magnethead wrote: »
    Outkast, are you talking about this kinda cladding?
    https://mybuildingsupplies.ie/product/pipe-insulation-34-2-metre?gclid=CjwKCAjw2a32BRBXEiwAUcugiPRnMZc5hBGjd-thNfWwN0abhH9pje0JB0W_f3hZptxe0WXp0x_JZRoCEpUQAvD_BwE

    No thats just pipe insulation and as noted when its wet it doesnt perform well.. Cladding is more for external above ground pipe and is costly expensive, and not required for domestic purposes so dont worry about it.

    Just try and bury them deep .

    TGD Part G is freely available and has the guidance you need.

    The minimum cover is 600mm externally (section 1.9.1) Diagram 1 & 2. As per the detail, once the pipe is insulated in the wall to the stopcock.

    Where is refernces insulation impermeable to water vapour it generally means a closed cell insulation. Which is available in most plumbing suppliers . Armaflex would be an example.

    If you dont get the minimum cover , you dont comply with the building regulations , you need to comply or prove your alternative is suitable , which you wont be able to do.


  • #13
    magnethead
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭magnethead


    Thanks very much for your help OutKast, Damn, I'm going to have to dig deep to sort out this problem, I'll see about moving the pipes back from the wall foundation slab, and see if I can get down there, there is a soil and storm 4" pipes running on top of each other going down the centre of the side path, There just might be enough room


  • #14
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    magnethead wrote: »
    Thanks very much for your help OutKast, Damn, I'm going to have to dig deep to sort out this problem, I'll see about moving the pipes back from the wall foundation slab, and see if I can get down there, there is a soil and storm 4" pipes running on top of each other going down the centre of the side path, There just might be enough room

    You are better off to try and do it correctly. The amount of houses i went to during the big freeze year (2010 i think) and their mains water had frozen in the ground due to inadequate cover , it created some very expensive leaks under driveways which took a lot of time and money to sort.


  • #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    magnethead wrote: »
    Thanks Gumbo, they are just the supply and return lines for an external cold water tank for my new house, because the internal water pumps are so loud. (I added an outside tap pipe since which comes from the plant room too)

    I'm kinda limited on the depth, as I'm down to the foundation of that wall at about 40cm...Just thinking, would a foundation slab be colder due to conduction from the wall?

    I can't find any technical document here labelled 't' like you said above
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-d-materials-and-workmanship/technical-guidance-documents

    The code of practice for laying 300mm water mains is 750-900mm depth.
    http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-your-drinking-water-builders-and-developers

    Depth for Medium density PE pipes...again 750ml...crap,that's a lot deeper then I thought
    https://www.jdpipes.co.uk/knowledge/mains-supply/how-deep-should-mdpe-be-installed.html

    Is this the main cold water storage tank for the house?

    Sorry that t should g.
    Typing on phone.


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