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Milk and Dairy

  • 26-02-2011 3:29pm
    #1
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭


    I've been a vegan now for over a year (I was a vegetarian for a few years before that). I wish I'd become a vegan much earlier. I would have if I had known the facts about how milk is produced.

    Have a look at this 4-minute video: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/f/CAMPAIGNS/blog//4//?be_id=284
    It shows what is involved in order to get cows to produce milk.
    The main points are:

    -Calves separated from their mothers at birth, causing severe stress.
    -Cows udders are massive (this is totally unnatural).
    -Cows suffer from lameness and mastitis as a result .
    -Cows are kept pregnant constantly (through artificial insemination) in order to produce milk all year round.

    -Cows all end up in the slaughterhouse when they are not deemed 'useful' any longer.
    -Male calves (babies, essentially) are slaughtered because they are surplus to requirements.


    Do humans have the right to do this to cows?


    Mod warning post #537


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Comments

  • #2
    loueuro2
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭loueuro2


    ya its really awful, i was vegetarian for 14 years and now vegan 6mths, only found out then the cruelty involved in the dairy industry. i think people dont realise how bad it is, its a pity its not advertised or something instead they advertise cows on beaches for yoherts!! if people knew the truth behind it maybe it would make some difference. its so easy to be vegan no excuses. these poor little calves....


  • #3
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    another 4-minute video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kM387cI4rk&feature=fvw

    And if you're still not convinced.. try the self-preservation angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpafipJyDE



    good luck..


  • #4
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Do you guys drink soy milk? Is that the only alternative to dairy milk?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #5
    sweet-rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭sweet-rasmus


    There's soya milk, oat milk, almond milk, quinoa milk and rice milk that I know of.

    Personally, I make oat milk when baking/cooking at home. Just mix porridge oats, water and a pinch of salt and strain :)


  • #6
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Worztron


    I watched those videos (links in previous posts). It is awful the way animals are treated.

    Please check out Earthlings (2005) if you have not done so. I must WARN everyone though that it is extremely difficult to watch. It is not suitable for kids. You can watch it at http://www.earthlings.com/. It covers the dairy industry and a whole lot more.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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  • #7
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    This is an excellent video. Its called "What's Wrong with Dairy". Its 5 minutes long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d9MdUrtLt4&feature=related


  • #8
    NecroSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭NecroSteve


    Rasmus, you left out hemp milk. I love that stuff. Sprout some hemp seeds, throw em in the blender with twice the volume of water, and strain out the shells. Goes with everything, full of omegas and protein, etc. etc.

    And I have to say, in a slight bout of militarism, that professing concern for animal welfare yet not being vegan is nothing other than hypocrisy. VEGANISM IS EASY!!


  • #9
    CokaColumbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 478 ✭✭CokaColumbo


    I have been thinking about issues relating to veganism recently and I am wondering how effective the diet aspect is in eliminating death. When you eat less meat, eggs etc., you naturally increase your consumption of vegetables and grains, fruits etc. But the production of these things involves using herbicides and pesticides which poison animals; using animal manure etc. as fertiliser which means complicity in exploitation but also it creates 'run off' into river, harming aquatic life and habitats; the violent killing of large numbers of animals and their habitats in the process of harvesting crops and tilling land etc.

    Although refraining from eating meat and drinking milk reduces demand for dead cows etc., doesn't the increased reliance on other products simply kill animals in other ways?


  • #10
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    To answer 'CokaColumbo's' question:

    80% of all crops that are grown go to feed cattle. If we were all to go vegan, that land mass would simply switch to feeding people instead of animals - so no change in terms of the animals (ie. mice and insects) killed as a side effect of pesticides and harvesting.

    As for fertilizer (ie. cow manure) - in the absence of cattle we would have to use organic fertilizer, or vegan-organic fertilizer which is formed through decayed plants and other natural substances. (You can look up 'vegan-organic gardening' on the web for a description of this growing and popular new movement). So, in terms of pollution of rivers and so on, vegan is actually the answer.


  • #11
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    For any of you interested in going vegan, the Vegan Society's website is a great place to start. It has everything you need to know about being vegan:
    http://www.vegansociety.com/

    Vegan Ireland's website is also very good: http://veganireland.vegaplanet.org/. Any vegan website will give you tons of recipes.

    Nowadays, there are vegan versions of almost every type of food, including milk, cheese, cream, mayo, sausage, chicken, burgers and mince. So there is actually NO sacrifice involved.


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  • #12
    CokaColumbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 478 ✭✭CokaColumbo


    Serendipity99 wrote: »
    To answer 'CokaColumbo's' question:

    80% of all crops that are grown go to feed cattle. If we were all to go vegan, that land mass would simply switch to feeding people instead of animals - so no change in terms of the animals (ie. mice and insects) killed as a side effect of pesticides and harvesting.

    As for fertilizer (ie. cow manure) - in the absence of cattle we would have to use organic fertilizer, or vegan-organic fertilizer which is formed through decayed plants and other natural substances. (You can look up 'vegan-organic gardening' on the web for a description of this growing and popular new movement). So, in terms of pollution of rivers and so on, vegan is actually the answer.

    But what if the cow is grass-fed?


  • #13
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    A cow would eat you, and everyone you love, if it had the chance.


  • #14
    OakeyDokey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭OakeyDokey


    Ugh! that is terrible :( I watched a PETA2 DVD a couple of years ago and I still find it hard thinking about it.


  • #15
    NUTZZ
    Registered Users Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭NUTZZ


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    A cow would eat you, and everyone you love, if it had the chance.

    6-troy-mcclure-lisa-the-vegetarian-pic2_1245105642.jpg


  • #16
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Serendipity99 wrote: »
    As for fertilizer (ie. cow manure) - in the absence of cattle we would have to use organic fertilizer, or vegan-organic fertilizer which is formed through decayed plants and other natural substances.

    Would there be sufficient quantity of vegan fertilizer to support the amount to food we need?
    Serendipity99 wrote: »
    So, in terms of pollution of rivers and so on, vegan is actually the answer.

    Vegan fertilizer run off isn't bad for rivers?


  • #17
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Worztron


    I just tried soymilk today for the first time. I had it in my tea. I liked it. It obviously tasted different to dairy milk but was actually very nice. :)
    It was also fortified with vitamins B, B12, D2 and E amongst others.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #18
    BengaLover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭BengaLover


    A couple of questions from a non vegan.

    Do you eat eggs (obviously the free range type)
    and would you use milk if it comes from a source where no cruelty such as the type highlighted here happens, ie if you had your own cow etc..

    What are the principles of veganism, is it based on animal welfare or health reasons.?
    Personally, I dont believe that humans need to eat meat or drink a liquid intended for baby cows, but what about eggs..Cos they arent a by-product...
    Thanks for reading.


  • #19
    NecroSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭NecroSteve


    Eggs are just menstrual waste for the most part alright. But the point is that the hens who prdouce them are often kept in terrible conditions, including the free range ones.

    Anyway, I don't see the appeal of something that's 80% saturated fat.


  • #20
    BengaLover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭BengaLover


    We keep a few hens as the family love eggs.
    When I was a child I once saw my mother crack an egg into a pan and there was a tiny embryo in it, I never ate an egg again..
    Thinking about it, an egg is basically placenta and amnioctic fluid isnt it..
    I could easily go vegan but wouldnt have any support..:D


  • #21
    Athene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭Athene


    Hello there,

    Sorry if i'm hi-jacking; I have wanted to convert from a veggie diet to a plant based diet for a while now and I've decided that post pancake day is a good time for a trial run so i'm looking for some advice.

    I'm looking for suggestions on meals not based on carbs?

    help appreciated thanks!


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  • #22
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    Hiya!
    Well, you could try eating lots of salad! And you could have some tofu with that. If you have'nt tried tofu yet, you could start by trying some of the flavoured tofu which you can buy in health shops - eg. barbecue or pizza flavoured etc. - you'll see them in flat transparent packets. Or you could also try Fry's 'chicken' strips and have these with the salad instead.

    Do you have a juicer? Its a great way to get some nutrition (and I'm pretty sure that it would be low carb). I often put in a piece of broccoli with a couple of pieces of fruit.

    Don't give up the carbs completely, though - your body needs them. Having some wholemeal bread and brown rice will do you no harm.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps. Good luck with going vegan - you're doing the right thing! Oh, btw - don't forget to take your B12 supplements. I'm taking Holland and Barrett's 'Vegan' supplement, but you can buy 'Veg1' online from the Vegan Society which a lot of vegans recommend as being the best one. :)


  • #23
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Your dead right a world without cows would be far better


  • #24
    vaalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭vaalea


    I love the alpro soy products.

    anyway, here is a great opportunity, A milk documentary that we can help be released! Very important contribution to the vegan message. Please spread the word. You can donate, or you can prepay for a copy of the movie and other cool stuff.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1730342331/got-the-facts-on-milk-the-milk-documentary


  • #25
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    Hi Valea,
    I hope she gets the funding she needs. Would be great to see this one screened.

    I love alpro as well. I always buy their milk, cream and desserts. The cream is great for adding to pasta bakes.

    :)


  • #26
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    'Truth or Dairy' is a 3-part video about why people should go vegan. If you only watch one of them - watch Part 2. They are about 7 minutes each.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxkbV5pjcnw
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v436ETAt1ac&feature=related
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4kLvRmszoc&NR=1


    And this is a really cool film by the Vegan Society. Its about 30 minutes long: http://www.vegansociety.com/resources/making-the-connection.aspx


  • #27
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Serendipity99 wrote: »
    'Truth or Dairy' is a 3-part video about why people should go vegan. If you only watch one of them - watch Part 2. They are about 7 minutes each.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxkbV5pjcnw
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v436ETAt1ac&feature=related
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4kLvRmszoc&NR=1


    And this is a really cool film by the Vegan Society. Its about 30 minutes long: http://www.vegansociety.com/resources/making-the-connection.aspx

    Very good programs.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #28
    Serendipity99
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Serendipity99


    Hi Everybody,
    Just to let you know that 'Cork Vegans' are now on Facebook, so don't forget to check us out: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cork-Vegans/153082988084114?sk=wall


    Happy St. Patrick's!!

    :D


  • #29
    mystique150
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭mystique150


    So don't get me wrong, I'm not anti vegan or anti vegetarian. In fact I enjoy vegetarian cooking. However, I have to disagree with some of the comments on the basis of them not being factual.
    Serendipity99 wrote: »
    -Cows are kept pregnant constantly (through artificial insemination) in order to produce milk all year round.
    This is nonsense. Cows are not kept constantly pregnant and if they were constantly pregnant it would not be due to AI. AI is just the method to fertilize the the cow. It is the continuous milking of a cow that makes her produce milk, if the farmer stopped milking her, then she would dry up. Nothing to do with the state of pregnancy.
    Serendipity99 wrote: »
    -Male calves (babies, essentially) are slaughtered because they are surplus to requirements.
    Rarely true in Ireland. Most male calves are left grow up and sold as beef. In some other countries veal is popular but not in Ireland. The only male calves that are slaughtered may be jerseys as they are so small but they do not make the majority of irish calves. Most Irish dairy farms use Fresians and Holsteins which can also be used for beef.

    The thing is, dairy isn't all that bad in Ireland. The situation is much worse for cows in the states where factory style dairy farms exist. In some factory farms, there may be a couple of thousand dairy cows that never leave the shed where they are milked. In Ireland, most farms are small and the cows are grazed outside in spring and summer. The dairy industry is also highly regulated that antibiotics do not enter the system. In the US, hormones are allowed. Hormones were banned in Europe in the 90's.

    Also mass produced alternatives of any kind may also be problematic. For example, soya industry expansion has been linked to deforestation and GM soya is also a problem for ethical food consumers. The demand for soya amongst other mass produced crops results in the loss of biodiversity as the land is used as a monoculture. Huge corporations such as Monsanto have latched onto the demand for dairy alternatives but really I'm not convinced that the mass production of anything is better than dairy. What do you think?


  • #30
    Ice.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭Ice.


    mystique150 wrote: »
    This is nonsense. Cows are not kept constantly pregnant and if they were constantly pregnant it would not be due to AI. AI is just the method to fertilize the the cow. It is the continuous milking of a cow that makes her produce milk, if the farmer stopped milking her, then she would dry up. Nothing to do with the state of pregnancy.

    The only reason cows produce milk is to feed newborn calves.
    mystique150 wrote: »
    The dairy industry is also highly regulated that antibiotics do not enter the system.

    What do farmers do for example if they get an outbreak of bovine lungworm?
    mystique150 wrote: »
    Also mass produced alternatives of any kind may also be problematic. For example, soya industry expansion has been linked to deforestation and GM soya is also a problem for ethical food consumers. The demand for soya amongst other mass produced crops results in the loss of biodiversity as the land is used as a monoculture. Huge corporations such as Monsanto have latched onto the demand for dairy alternatives but really I'm not convinced that the mass production of anything is better than dairy. What do you think?

    The majority of grain grown is not for humans but for livestock. More and more forests (including the Rainforests) are being cut down to make room for cattle grazing. Its just not sustainable. 250 pounds of beef can be produced on an acre of land compared to 40,000 pounds of potatoes. Which will feed more?

    As far as soya goes, the average person probably consumes more of it than a Vegetarian/Vegan as its in most processed foods.


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  • #31
    PurpleFistMixer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭PurpleFistMixer


    Athene wrote: »
    Sorry if i'm hi-jacking; I have wanted to convert from a veggie diet to a plant based diet for a while now and I've decided that post pancake day is a good time for a trial run so i'm looking for some advice.
    FYI: you can make vegan pancakes and they are good!


This discussion has been closed.
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