Arts

Iomib · 05-09-2011 8:21am #1

Do too many people study arts in college these days? I know a school that more than 50% of this years lc class are doing arts in college this month.

MugMugs · 05-09-2011 8:24am

Smoke drugs? Do Arts.

Gadhafi · 05-09-2011 8:29am

Just an excuse to go to college. If your a bum, a dosser and a complete tosser, arts is for you.

later12 · 05-09-2011 8:38am

Arts includes industry-valuable subjects like mathematics in some cases, so perhaps be more specific.
so
Are there too many students studying subjects like an nua-Ghaeilge, sociology, English literature, and celtic studies who, importantly, will not go on to contribute anything valuable to those fields - yes, certainly.

I would add the caveat that there are only too many of these students under the public university system. If such students want to go ahead and fund these courses themselves instead of relying heavily on the taxpayer, then they can go ahead and be their own guests.

Back in the late 19th century Otto von Bismarck set an educational policy for Germany that involved the state encouraging the study of mathematics, physics and the industrial sciences in place of theology and the humanities, which played a significant role in Germany's industrial strength, arguably into the present era.

Pride Fighter · 05-09-2011 8:48am

I have a degree in Arts. Greek and Roman Civilisation and History. I really enjoyed studying it. Gave me the ability to think for myself, think critically and analytically. It really sets you up in life despite what others will tell you.

One thing I despise is education snobs, who will trot out such jokes as an arts degree is equal to toilet paper and so on. What they dont know is that some people actually love studying and want to study what they want. I love to learn and improve myself. I'm not after money, it's not the most important thing in the world. Family, friends, learning new things, having a positive philosophy, those are the most important things.

CardBordWindow · 05-09-2011 8:53am

.........and would you like fries with that?

MugMugs · 05-09-2011 8:53am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I'm not after money, it's not the most important thing in the world. Family, friends, learning new things, having a positive philosophy, those are the most important things.

Sweet !

If you ever become rich, can I have all your money ?

Miss Olenska · 05-09-2011 8:54am

Arts is great if you know what you want out of it and have a plan. It's the kind of course that will require a follow-up such as a Masters though.

I think it has the rep it has because many people with no plan end up doing it also just to have the college experience. There are other general courses too, but some are demanding enough even in first year, such as general science which has high hours and lots of assignments and assessments right from the get-go. But Arts is low hours, so if you're a dosser, it will suit your needs perfectly. If you're not a dosser, it will end up not being a low hours course because you'll put the work in.

As for the subjects, I can't imagine English and languages and psychology are easy if you want to do well.

later10 wrote: »

Back in the late 19th century Otto von Bismarck set an educational policy for Germany that involved the state encouraging the study of mathematics, physics and the industrial sciences in place of theology and the humanities, which played a significant role in Germany's industrial strength, arguably into the present era.

Eek! I'm a fully paid up science grad but I wouldn't agree that the above is necessarily a good thing. There is value in the study of humanities outside of what it will do for the economy.

FatherLen · 05-09-2011 8:59am

you spelled "finger painting" wrong.

Pride Fighter · 05-09-2011 9:04am

MugMugs wrote: »

Sweet !

If you ever become rich, can I have all your money ?

If I ever became rich, I would sort out my immediate family and ensure they are set up for life, then I would take care of my friends. After if I have money left over I'll donate to charities of my choosing for the betterment of the human race.

I'll buy you a few pints though:)

filmbuffboy · 05-09-2011 9:04am

Im studying English Literature & Classical Civilisations in college, People always hammer home the joke 'an arts degree isnt worth the paper its printed on'.

Granted, there are a LOT of arts students that just take the course because they dont know what they want to do in life and end up getting pissed 24/7 while at college.

Then there are the arts students that actually want to study their chosen subjects to improve their writing/analytical abilities and work extremely hard to get the grades they achieve.

Its easy to PASS an arts degree with little effort. Its not easy to get a 1:1. Getting a 1:1 in an arts degree requires just as much hard work and intelligence as studying any other field whether it be the sciences, medicine etc...

People that argue that we dont need the humanities anymore because this is the age of science really bother me. History, English Literature, Geography, Philosophy, Classics.... these are all important subjects that can teach you a great deal about the history of the human race/the human condition.

I know plenty of arts students that waste their chance at the free education theyve been given.

I also know arts students that work bloody hard and somewhere down the line get the job they deserve out of it.

A girl I know who just graduated last year got a job with a publishing firm last month, and she had a 1:1!!

Dont generalise and paint all Arts students with the same brush!!!!

later12 · 05-09-2011 9:06am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What they dont know is that some people actually love studying and want to study what they want. I love to learn and improve myself. I'm not after money...

Evidently you're not, but the taxpayer is.

And it is exchequer revenue that is in question, not your own educational slush fund that you are free to dispense with as you see fit.

I expect the taxpayer wants to see a clear return on the state's investment into third and fourth level education. This is not a country that can afford to pour billions into university education just so that people can satisfy their curiosity about ancient Rome.

OneArt · 05-09-2011 9:08am

CardBordWindow wrote: »

.........and would you like fries with that?

I'm going to be studying English literature next year. My reason? I teach TEFL now, but many higher-paying, full time jobs in the area require a university degree. Doesn't matter what in (obviously English is a plus).

Having a basic degree, some work experience (even if its going off doing unpaid internships etc.) and knowing how to market yourself to employers seems to be the way of the world these days.

I also know a few people with degrees in the likes of IT and science who have been stuck for the last few years working in two euro shops and takeaways because they just didn't bother their arses looking for work in their field.

filmbuffboy · 05-09-2011 9:09am

later10 wrote: »

Evidently you're not, but the taxpayer is.

And it is exchequer revenue that is in question, not your own educational slush fund that you are free to dispense with as you see fit.

I expect the taxpayer wants to see a clear return on the state's investment into third and fourth level education. This is not a country that can afford to pour billions into university education just so that people can satisfy their curiosity about ancient Rome.

the way you stigmatise and judge arts students you'd swear every science student was a high achiever and worked damned hard. I know that not to be the case. I have no prob with the government wanting to get results for the money they pour into the system, but people should have the FREEDOM to study what they choose.

Im all for 'Grade accountability' in college, whereby you must achieve at least a B average to get free education. that would solve a lot of problems....NOT the solution you propose of banning certain subjects from free education! :rolleyes:

later12 · 05-09-2011 9:13am

filmbuffboy wrote: »

the way you stigmatise and judge arts students you'd swear every science student was a high achiever and worked damned hard.

Except that nobody said that.

Education in science-based courses provides graduates with clearly transferable skills in the all-important manufacturing and goods export industries. Arts does not do this.

I'd take 50,000 "average" chemistry and physics graduates over 100,000 graduates who could give me a first class honours quality day-by-day account of the life of Peig Sayers on her carraig mhara.

Pride Fighter · 05-09-2011 9:14am

later10 wrote: »

Evidently you're not, but the taxpayer is.

And it is exchequer revenue that is in question, not your own educational slush fund that you are free to dispense with as you see fit.

I expect the taxpayer wants to see a clear return on the state's investment into third and fourth level education. This is not a country that can afford to pour billions into university education just so that people can satisfy their curiosity about ancient Rome.

I am a taxpayer and I've paid back into the tax net. Also I'm writing at the moment(using skills I learned studying the likes of Homer, Herodotus, Cicero amongst others), and if I'm successful will be paying back even more into the tax net. Also my parents paid tax and my grandparents.

I have no doubt in my lifetime I'll be a net contributor of tax over the public services such as a university education. As a citizen of this country I and my descendants should be able to have a quality education. Not only is education a right, it makes our society a better place.

later12 · 05-09-2011 9:19am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I am a taxpayer and I've paid back into the tax net.

You're trying to construct a straw man. The question is not whether arts graduates pay tax or not - there is a question of what value is added to the exchequer figures directly on foot of their university education.

There is also a question of the potential difference between their average present contributions and their contributions under an alternative system should they have had to pay for their own education in humanities or (more likely) have been encouraged into the industrial sciences.

Pride Fighter · 05-09-2011 9:19am

later10 wrote: »

Except that nobody said that.

Education in science-based courses provides graduates with clearly transferable skills in the all-important manufacturing and goods export industries. Arts does not do this.

I'd take 50,000 "average" chemistry and physics graduates over 100,000 graduates who could give me a first class honours quality day-by-day account of the life of Peig Sayers on her carraig mhara.

We're a nation that produced Beckett, Yeats, Heaney, O'Casey and Joyce. We should not be proud of these arts wasters should we:rolleyes::rolleyes:

How many people visit this nation for Bloomsday? How many visit the writers museum? James Joyce is dead, he got a 2.2 in an arts degree in UCD and benefits the Irish economy to the tune of millions in tourism revenue even though he's dead 70 years.

later12 · 05-09-2011 9:23am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

We're a nation that produced Beckett, Yeats, Heaney, O'Casey and Joyce. We should not be proud of these arts wasters should we:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Surely you were taught logic? Your arts degree is looking more and more like an awfully wasteful exercise, because that's another strawman.

And yes indeed, Beckett, Heaney, O'Casey and Joyce all did well out of their arts degrees (or in spite of them, perhaps), but what about the hundreds of thousands of students whose education has been funded by the exchequer, of whom we have never heard, and for whose ongoing funding I am really not seeing any convincing arguments.

hatrickpatrick · 05-09-2011 9:52am

Oh great.
Another "The only reason for getting an education is to learn workplace skills so you can become a processed number in a machine" thread.

Doesn't anyone believe there's more to life than our pre set flight plan any more?

later12 · 05-09-2011 10:03am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Oh great.
Another "The only reason for getting an education is to learn workplace skills so you can become a processed number in a machine" thread.

A number in a machine?

Most arts graduates I know don't spend their days sitting at a bureau writing the next Finnegan's Wake. They very much do tend to be 'a number in a machine'. There seems to be a faint sense of delusion in this thread with regards to what arts graduates actually achieve.

At least a graduate pool in the industrial sciences can attract industry. Companies don't tend to set up base in an economy because of its bizarrely high number of students who know about Greek and Roman civilsations or Ancient Irish religious iconography.

I'm not saying that we have no faculties undertaking teaching or research in these latter fields, by the way.
But we should make publicly funded entry extremely limited to only the best of students who might actually be in a position to contribute constructively to that discipline, and then admit in others out of their own pocket.

And on the other hand, publicly funded places in science should be far more liberally funded, because that is the field that is likely to provide a return, and a clear benefit, to the taxpayer.

Sea Sharp · 05-09-2011 10:19am

All joking aside, I was really just jealous of arts students in college. Loads of hot women and handy hours. Better than the engineering sausage fest

Azureus · 05-09-2011 10:27am

I did an Arts degree. I now work in tourism, where I wouldn't have got my job if it wasn't for my college degree. And I had a savage time in college.
Win win!

mariaalice · 05-09-2011 10:28am

If you were to only use the 'getting a job argument' then surely all courses in civil engineering and construction should be curtailed as well.

Orando Broom · 05-09-2011 10:31am

later10 wrote: »

Except that nobody said that.

Education in science-based courses provides graduates with clearly transferable skills in the all-important manufacturing and goods export industries. Arts does not do this.

I'd take 50,000 "average" chemistry and physics graduates over 100,000 graduates who could give me a first class honours quality day-by-day account of the life of Peig Sayers on her carraig mhara.

I wouldn't. Science graduates are idiot-savants who are incapable of thinking outside the box.

Oh look I can make retarded generalisations too!

I must be a Commerce graduate.

Lollipops23 · 05-09-2011 10:34am

I studied Media in college, genuinely slogged my guts out to get a decent result.
Have a decent job with decent prospects. Wouldn't have gotten it without my degree, or the skill set I picked up while studying for my degree....

What exactly did I do "wrong" here....?

Remmy · 05-09-2011 10:39am

I know two people who are doing Arts in UCD. One guy is doing it because he loves Irish.He has gone to a gaelscoil,did a few of his leaving cert subject in Irish and wants to be an Irish teacher in the gaeltacht. The other person I know just went into it to 'have the craic'.She drinks like a fish and anytime I would be chatting to her she moans about not going to lectures,getting her assignment deadlines lengthened etc etc. I personally think that people who just go to college for the lark and barely scrape by or show up shouldn't be given free fees. It's such a waste of money and the state isn't deriving any benefit whatsoever from these people.

Orando Broom · 05-09-2011 10:51am

Remmy wrote: »

I know two people who are doing Arts in UCD. One guy is doing it because he loves Irish.He has gone to a gaelscoil,did a few of his leaving cert subject in Irish and wants to be an Irish teacher in the gaeltacht. The other person I know just went into it to 'have the craic'.She drinks like a fish and anytime I would be chatting to her she moans about not going to lectures,getting her assignment deadlines lengthened etc etc. I personally think that people who just go to college for the lark and barely scrape by or show up shouldn't be given free fees. It's such a waste of money and the state isn't deriving any benefit whatsoever from these people.

There are people like her in every course in Ireland. I knew Doctors who did the bare minimum. Granted it might have been a damn sight more than the average student but they were lazy cünts. She is a lazy cünt. Lazy cünts are lazy. And they are everywhere.

Remmy · 05-09-2011 11:03am

Orando Broom wrote: »

There are people like her in every course in Ireland. I knew Doctors who did the bare minimum. Granted it might have been a damn sight more than the average student but they were lazy cünts. She is a lazy cünt. Lazy cünts are lazy. And they are everywhere.

True that. I wouldn't really look at someone with more or less admiration depending if they did a certain course but I wouldn't try to hard to hide my disdain for someone who just does the bare minimum then complains if they can't find a job afterwards.

jimgoose · 15-12-2014 3:47pm

Mate of mine has a degree in Arts and Orthopedics. He still doesn't know his arts from his elbow...

AboutaWeekAgo · 15-12-2014 3:50pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Mate of mine has a degree in Arts and Orthopedics. He still doesn't know his arts from his elbow...

Not sure that zinger was worth the 3 year wait :pac:

Arts

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