Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Jordan Peterson interview on C4

1…119120122124125…201

Comments

  • #3632
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    silverharp wrote: »
    at a minimum he has always been a professional motivational speaker, he is a bit too slick and came across to me like a TV Evangelist.

    At a minimum? He is a motivational speaker. I wouldn’t be a fan of his delivery, but some very successful people I respect are big fans of Tony Robbins. His message is simple and inoffensive, delivered with razzle dazzle.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #3633
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    silverharp wrote: »
    white men eh? blacks and women banned :rolleyes:

    Not banned, just not his intended audience.

    His message is all about individuals taking control of their own lives and forging their own path. This is a message aimed at your single white male, playing life at the easiest setting. He is absolutely able to take control of his own stuff, stand up straight, clean his own room and find himself on top of the world.

    Because he was born on top of the world, and only his own screw-ups put him anywhere else.

    Black women, facing all sorts of personal and institutional discrimination, are not so receptive to the message that if they just sort out their own crap they'll succeed.


  • #3634
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Not banned, just not his intended audience.

    His message is all about individuals taking control of their own lives and forging their own path. This is a message aimed at your single white male, playing life at the easiest setting. He is absolutely able to take control of his own stuff, stand up straight, clean his own room and find himself on top of the world.

    Because he was born on top of the world, and only his own screw-ups put him anywhere else.

    Black women, facing all sorts of personal and institutional discrimination, are not so receptive to the message that if they just sort out their own crap they'll succeed.

    Right, so if you face challenges and your life is a bit harder because you don't have "white male privilege", and you're not quite on top of the world the same way a single white man is, you might as well not sort out your own crap.


  • #3635
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »
    Right, so if you face challenges and your life is a bit harder because you don't have "white male privilege", and you're not quite on top of the world the same way a single white man is, you might as well not sort out your own crap.

    You are much less likely to buy a book saying "just sort out your own crap and bob's your uncle". Bob will never be your uncle no matter how on top of your crap you are.

    Meanwhile, the SWM who can sort out his own crap loves this message, since it means he doesn't need to concern himself with all the institutional discrimination against people who are not just like him until they sort out their own crap first.


  • #3636
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    You are much less likely to buy a book saying "just sort out your own crap and bob's your uncle". Bob will never be your uncle no matter how on top of your crap you are.

    Meanwhile, the SWM who can sort out his own crap loves this message, since it means he doesn't need to concern himself with all the institutional discrimination against people who are not just like him until they sort out their own crap first.

    Bob might not be your uncle but your situation will seriously improve.

    Can you define concretely any institutional discrimination you're referring to?


  • Advertisement
  • #3637
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »
    Can you define concretely any institutional discrimination you're referring to?

    Well, black people and women were mentioned earlier. If you are not aware of any institutional discrimination suffered by black people and women, Peterson's book is perfect for you.


  • #3638
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »

    Meanwhile, the SWM who can sort out his own crap loves this message, since it means he doesn't need to concern himself with all the institutional discrimination against people who are not just like him until they sort out their own crap first.

    That’s a really important part of the Peterson sermon. Don’t attempt to change the world/society/anything except yourself. Young people know nothing ‘literally nothing’.

    “Get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world” - Peterson, adnausium.


  • #3639
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    That’s a really important part of the Peterson sermon. Don’t attempt to change the world/society/anything except yourself. Young people know nothing ‘literally nothing’.

    “Get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world” - Peterson, adnausium.

    Not really, it's get your house in order before you can change the world, usually he uses the phrase "to be a force for good"in the world.

    Looking at it cynically and doubting the person's good faith is the easy, conspiratorial way out of this conundrum for people who feel threatened by his attempts to make people think.

    You can choose to look at the world that way, or maybe just to present the world that way, or you can actually try and listen, and learn.

    The man is a lecturer. His purpose is to make people think.

    Evidently he's failing with some.


  • #3640
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    The man is a lecturer. His purpose is to make people think.

    He used to be a lecturer, but this new celebrity self-help for dudes who don't need help and want to believe no-one else does either gig pays much better.


  • #3641
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Mountainsandh wrote: »

    He used to be a lecturer, but this new celebrity self-help for dudes who don't need help and want to believe no-one else does either gig pays much better.

    Well yeah. So ? I don't understand what the big deal is, about him making money. Would you like him to lecture for free, or live like a recluse ?
    He's still lecturing, not full on myths, religion and psychology anymore, but actually, using all of that still. Making great money, and not so shackled by uni anymore.
    How is that a problem ? He's not stealing money from people, he's not fooling them into buying something. He's selling a book, and explaining the contents of the book to lots of people who are happy to pay a ticket to hear him.

    The book is only part of what he's at by the way. The talks with Russel Brand are not about the book at all. He had debates with Sam Harris, an example of a theme was "what is the nature of truth?". There are many talks in universities, and since it appears that it's the unis who decide what the theme will be, it's not necessarily his book that he discusses.

    Look, it's fine to be cynical, I'm cynical on some things too,; and the guy cannot be everyone's cup of tea but I would highly recommend listening to other talks before anyone making their minds up, the book stuff is just the book stuff, breadwinner sort of thing.


  • Advertisement
  • #3642
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    he's not fooling them into buying something.

    Of course he is. The 3 arena full of the poor saps.


  • #3643
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Of course he is. The 3 arena full of the poor saps.

    Fooling them into what ? Please explain.


  • #3644
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Fooling them into what ?
    Paying him for inane advice their mother gives them free. Pick up your room. Stand up straight. Stop your moaning.

    But by sprinkling some own the libs magic on it and using big words, he gets them to pay to hear advice they have no notion of following simply because it makes them feel superior.

    He is putting his psychology expertise to good use.

    On the suckers who pay him.


  • #3645
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Paying him for inane advice their mother gives them free. Pick up your room. Stand up straight. Stop your moaning.

    But by sprinkling some own the libs magic on it and using big words, he gets them to pay to hear advice they have no notion of following simply because it makes them feel superior.

    He is putting his psychology expertise to good use.

    On the suckers who pay him.

    You're having a very good day.


  • #3646
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    “Get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world” - Peterson, adnausium.

    There's a whole lot of Lobsterians out there with perfectly ordered houses, then.

    By their own assessment, at least.


  • #3647
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »
    Can you define concretely any institutional discrimination you're referring to?

    This'll be the passage of the play where you expect everyone else to do Feminism and Racism 101 for you, while you fold your arms and mutter how you're not buying any of it.


  • #3648
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Not banned, just not his intended audience.

    His message is all about individuals taking control of their own lives and forging their own path. This is a message aimed at your single white male, playing life at the easiest setting. He is absolutely able to take control of his own stuff, stand up straight, clean his own room and find himself on top of the world.

    Because he was born on top of the world, and only his own screw-ups put him anywhere else.

    Black women, facing all sorts of personal and institutional discrimination, are not so receptive to the message that if they just sort out their own crap they'll succeed.

    Life at the easiest these days is if you are born a middle class white western woman. Peterson is not afraid to highlight this along with so much of the other modern feminist victimhood nonsense. He is also not afraid to highlight the excesses and dangers of identity politics and the attacks on so called white privilege. Its these things that have attracted people to Peterson and not the clean your room stuff. He had a large following on youtube long before his 12 rules for life book.

    Btw your post above highlights fairly well why he has a good following of white men. This idea that men have it made and don't have any real problems, they should just shut the hell up because a black woman has it harder.


  • #3649
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    backspin. wrote: »
    Btw your post above highlights fairly well why he has a good following of white men
    Since my entire point was to explain how he has a good following of white men, this is not By The Way. You make Peterson sad.


  • #3650
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    I don't have his book and don't intent to get it. I'm not really interested in the self help angle. I'm just glad he has an audience that gets to listen to him deconstruct modern feminism, political correctness and identity politics. There aren't many journalists or public figures brave enough to broach the subject so its down to a few people like Peterson to put into words what many men already know in their marrow.

    Anyone who thinks his popularity is down to clean your room and stand up straight stuff is really missing the point.


  • #3651
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Paying him for inane advice their mother gives them free. Pick up your room. Stand up straight. Stop your moaning.

    But by sprinkling some own the libs magic on it and using big words, he gets them to pay to hear advice they have no notion of following simply because it makes them feel superior.

    He is putting his psychology expertise to good use.

    On the suckers who pay him.

    You can look at it this way, or simply you can acknowledge that people may be happy and willing to pay to hear things that they find valuable. Never mind that your granny or your mother told you that, how is that relevant ?

    Do you go around admonishing people for paying for traditional cuisine recipe books ? Do you scoff at people in Eason's who are browsing the self help aisle ?

    Just thinking out loud here, and I think just as I typed that I thought well yeah, alright, we all do a bitta that, a bit of wtf wondering about others' choices.
    That's not what I've a problem with actually.
    What I think is nonsensical is that you there and then decide that these people are being "fooled" into something. They're simply not : they like to hear/read what he says, they are happy to pay for it.

    I don't get "fooled" into buying a Taylor Swift album. I don't get "fooled" into buying a "Grandma's best sponges" recipe book. They don't get "fooled" into buying a ticket to a talk, or a book.

    There is simply no manipulation or evil intent there. The guy wrote a book, people like it, people buy it. He does talks, people are interested, they buy a ticket. Where's the catch ? Simply that you think he's talking BS. Ok, it's your prerogative, isn't it great that you are not being tricked into paying for these.


  • Advertisement
  • #3652
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    backspin. wrote: »
    There aren't many journalists or public figures brave enough to broach the subject so its down to a few people like Peterson to put into words what many men already know in their marrow.

    Or more realistically: those people are ten-a-penny. The tabloids, the airwaves and a motley selection of political parties are stuffed full of them. JP has in effect carved out a niche by throwing rather more words at the problem, so that he can appeal to much the same male "marrow" as your run of the mill reactionaries, but keep it vaguely deniable. As we can see in this very thread, with his various apologists on the one hand going with the "shut up, SJWs!" tacks, and on the other, denying him being of the political right at all.

    Which isn't to write off the possible value of his clinical psychology, self-help, and the alleged nuance of some of his less headline-grabbing and hyperbolic output. But those seem rather limited for people with no interest in them. Who're happy just to cheer him on the basis of what they evidently perceive as an "anti-identity politics" brand of identity politics.


  • #3653
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The guys at Zero Books who are actual Marxists, and critical theorists, challenged JP to a debate and his people said they'd get back to them. In the months since JP was on Joe Roganjosh saying [paraphrasing] 'the leftists won't debate me' like they're afraid of his intellect.

    He's a pound-shop intellectual.


  • #3654
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    backspin. wrote: »
    Life at the easiest these days is if you are born a middle class white western woman.
    Tell us again about the travails of life as a middle-class white man in a rich country.

    I love that tune.


  • #3655
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The guys at Zero Books who are actual Marxists, and critical theorists, challenged JP to a debate and his people said they'd get back to them. In the months since JP was on Joe Roganjosh saying [paraphrasing] 'the leftists won't debate me' like they're afraid of his intellect.

    He's a pound-shop intellectual.

    Meh, these are extrapolations from dealings with a management team whose workload must have gone exponential from the time the book was released, I wouldn't really go down the road of "he refuses to debate with them" on something like that.
    I would guess they prioritize bigger venues and better known profiles, no harm in resending those emails once things have calmed down somewhat.


  • #3656
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    This'll be the passage of the play where you expect everyone else to do Feminism and Racism 101 for you, while you fold your arms and mutter how you're not buying any of it.

    This is an interesting and clever variant on the idea that evidence isn't required.

    Wait, are you currently folding your arms and muttering?

    This could get very meta-analytical.
    alaimacerc wrote: »
    "anti-identity politics" brand of identity politics.

    This really is meta. Oh I bet you don't say anything of substance in the last few pages. Sigh.. letmecheck

    ..

    ..

    ..

    Okay, so going back far enough you actually talk about some of the things that Pererson actually said, instead of railing against white men in general.
    alaimacerc wrote: »
    "Clearly", eh? Why do you think I put in quotes? Enforced means "not enforced at all" when that suits him, and "actually enforced" when that does. It's either deliberate bait-and-switch on his part, or -- gasp! -- lamentably imprecise use of language.

    I'm getting deja vu.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107516092&postcount=9073

    You lost this argument man. Let it go. Wait, I hope you don't think that me calling you man was a microaggression.


  • #3657
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    “Get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world” - Peterson, adnausium.

    There's a whole lot of Lobsterians out there with perfectly ordered houses, then.

    By their own assessment, at least.

    Presumably so. Can I take it for granted that Peterson and his followers have their houses in PERFECT order before he could criticise the left and the young people? Or is he immune from this own advice, I wonder?


  • #3658
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    backspin. wrote: »
    He is also not afraid to highlight the excesses and dangers of identity politics and the attacks on so called white privilege. Its these things that have attracted people to Peterson and not the clean your room stuff. He had a large following on youtube long before his 12 rules for life book.

    It's amusing to see some of his followers say the interesting part of Peterson's sermon is the self help part, and other followers say the interesting thing is the anti left anti young people part. He can't lose with some people as long as he keeps up the Tony Robbins part and the Fox News part. As I've said a dozen times, it's entertainment for the conservative man dressed up as self help - the left and the young should heed Peterson's advise because they're doing g it all wrong


  • #3659
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »

    He's a pound-shop intellectual.

    In the 99p shop, the pound shop intellectual is king.


  • #3660
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It's amusing to see some of his followers say the interesting part of Peterson's sermon is the self help part, and other followers say the interesting thing is the anti left anti young people part. He can't lose with some people as long as he keeps up the Tony Robbins part and the Fox News part. As I've said a dozen times, it's entertainment for the conservative man dressed up as self help - the left and the young should heed Peterson's advise because they're doing g it all wrong

    You evidently haven't listened to a lot of him, since really the bulk of his videos online are about stories, myths, and their relation to religion, and clinical psychology of personality. (I'm not sneering here, just saying)

    If you do wish to become acquainted with this, ignore the flamboyant youtube profiteers links to short videos, click on his channel, and scroll down. Lots to choose from. Depending on what you're into, I find the talks on personality more interesting than the myths/religion stuff myself, but I have somewhat developed an interest in that too now that I sort of understand the basic concepts.

    Really anything under 10 minutes is not representative. The Q&A are alright but do tend to be scattered. The lectures and interviews on his specialist topics are the best.

    Please do listen, if you have an open mind.


    https://www.youtube.com/user/JordanPetersonVideos


  • Advertisement
  • #3661
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Presumably so. Can I take it for granted that Peterson and his followers have their houses in PERFECT order before he could criticise the left and the young people? Or is he immune from this own advice, I wonder?

    The guy looks healthier and handsomer at whatever age he is now than he looked in his 40s. He's on an all meat diet and reckons it has cleared his depression and a number of other ailments he suffered from. He has finished his first book, and written another one, with another one in the pipeline if I understand right. He's fit and travelling the world, and making a lot of money. His family are well.

    I think he pretty much has that house in order thing sussed out, but if he hasn't he'll be the first to admit it.


Advertisement