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Applying chalk to headstones to read inscriptions

  • 20-08-2018 11:01am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭


    I belong to a genealogy group on FB where people sometimes post photos of headstones in conjunction with their research. Yesterday one of the members of the group, on a visit from the US, visited an old graveyard and proudly posted pics to the group where she had obviously heavily chalked the inscriptions on a number of headstones.

    I know applying chalk in order to read inscriptions is very tempting but there are other methods that have less impact. Is there a good guide online to those?

    I have a copy in front of me of a publication from The Heritage Council - "Guidance for the Care, Conservation and Recording of Historic Graveyards". I was going to direct her to that, but there is a typo in the relevant section that mentions chalk so it reads the opposite of what I presume they intend to say.

    "Memorials in a graveyard are in a constant state of decay from the natural process of weathering. It is important therefore to record the location and gather detailed information of every memorial before this data is lost as a result of this natural decaying process. Non-impact methods of recording should be used such as chalk rubbings of inscriptions or use of wire brushes to clean lichen off memorials as these impact methods speed up the process of decay. Non-impact methods of recording memorials should be used such as lighting the memorial with artificial light as described under the relevant section below."

    Guessing that should read "... Non-impact methods of recording should be used AS OTHER METHODS such as chalk rubbings ..."


Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    The best ones I've heard of are:

    Pour water over the stone - easier to read when wet
    Non-wire brush to clean off lichen
    Take photo and then flip into negative on your computer

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    Just had a look at previous posts and it seems she's going mad with the chalk around the graveyards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭beans


    total guess, but I would interpret a 'chalk rubbing' as using paper + chalk to reproduce the engraving on the paper?

    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Gravestone-Rubbing


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    beans wrote: »
    total guess, but I would interpret a 'chalk rubbing' as using paper + chalk to reproduce the engraving on the paper?

    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Gravestone-Rubbing
    This is not what I was referring to. She is applying the chalk directly to the headstones and doing it heavily so she can get a good photos. And not just white chalk, which is bad enough, but pink chalk too. In one shot she doesn't just confine herself to the inscription, but chalked up the decorative elements too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    One example 39522138_2213239488704218_236598220644417536_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=3914e3ddf6082ed425133221f8ca457e&oe=5C0F6D90


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    and in that case, it looks as if the inscription was already perfectly legible. 39506985_2213238052037695_2010036907752292352_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c677dc3a04dc4978da041d6bf74bb5df&oe=5BF72145


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    Another one

    39512257_2213157815379052_298974709289058304_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e5b5e81749d3929dc27554eb355082bd&oe=5C05CF9B


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    That is pretty bad. I also thought you meant rubbing with tracing paper.

    But since she's an anonymous person on the internet - not much you can do about it, beyond replying and saying that is damaging church property.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    And a vision in pink

    39501233_2212804172081083_7594321740692455424_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=2cd74579598c0d1b9f83b60fbb86c0d8&oe=5BF107A6


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭leck


    If I was the family who owned this plot, I'd be upset.

    39515188_2213120445382789_7104959987394281472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4175b022d47fec036e222e65e076f41e&oe=5BFD7529


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Well, if you want to go further, you could contact the church yard and point them at the person online...

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I've posted these pics before of rubbings onto newsprint with carbon paper.
    The resulting image is very clear and there is little or no affect on the stone.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Earnest


    I contacted the Heritage Council about this and they replied:

    "Yes, there is a typo on p34 as you suggest.

    P22 does state correctly – ‘Do not take rubbings of carved stones, or use chalk to outline the carvings…’

    I don’t do boards.ie but please feel free to point this out on this forum. I will have to exhaust the printed copies but I will amend the pdf version so it can be corrected online."


  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭kildarejohn


    leck wrote: »
    Non-impact methods of recording memorials should be used such as lighting the memorial with artificial light as described under the relevant section below."

    Can the OP post a link to the above guidelines on "non-impact" methods. Using artificial light is "easier said than done" - is there a particular type of light recommended?
    I have tried both battery torches and photographic flash units with not much success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Earnest


    Can the OP post a link to the above guidelines on "non-impact" methods. Using artificial light is "easier said than done" - is there a particular type of light recommended?
    I have tried both battery torches and photographic flash units with not much success.

    Not difficult of find on google: https://www.heritagecouncil.ie/content/files/guidance_care_conservation_recording_historic_graveyards_2011_7mb.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭kildarejohn


    Earnest wrote: »

    Thanks, that is a very comprehensive and interesting guide.
    The advice on lighting though is perhaps a bit out of date - i.e. portable generator and halogen lights. LED lights are now much more efficient than halogen, and can be powered by a battery instead of a generator. So I think I will visit my local hardware and buy a couple of LED lights of the type sold for use in workshops/garages and try out the technique.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    I'm horrified to see all those chalkmarks. :( I may check FB for that group, but probably won't find it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭hblock21


    Those pictures that you posted are an absolute disgrace. And the pink! When will it wash off?
    Imagine if family visited the plot!


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Using cheap tinfoil usually works well
    Some examples here:
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/33059891/jane-goold/photo#view-photo=16323093


  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    Depending on the weather, I use a mirror or an umbrella - it's all about casting a shadow. Got a cheap A4 size mirror in dealz that works a treat.

    Yer wan using the chalk is a vandal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭shar01


    Jellybaby1 wrote: »
    I'm horrified to see all those chalkmarks. :( I may check FB for that group, but probably won't find it.

    If you find it, would you mind posting a link.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    shar01 wrote: »
    Yer wan using the chalk is a vandal.
    +1

    She mightn't realise it but that's what she is.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    shar01 wrote: »
    If you find it, would you mind posting a link.


    Mebbe we should all have a look, one of us might be successful. It would distress me to find family graves in that state. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Leave the dead alone.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Leave the dead alone.

    As genealogists we can do no such thing.

    But it's the headstone that concerns us - not the remains.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Hermy wrote: »
    As genealogists we can do no such thing.

    But it's the headstone that concerns us - not the remains.

    leave them alone.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    leave them alone.

    Leave who alone?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Irish King: we don't encourage vandalism.

    Thread's run its course everyone.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



This discussion has been closed.
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