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Why do Irish people support English teams?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    But they think us going to the matches will make the players better when it's always gonna be this standard with Britain next door buying any player that looks half decent.

    How do you not see the logic? Let's take Rovers for example. Say their average attendance goes from the current 3,000 to 8,000. Given they've attracted 7,000 this season and are based in Dublin that shouldn't be unrealistic in a country of our size with a normal attitude to its national league. Over the course of a season that's an extra million quid in ticket income alone for the club never mind all the advertising income it'd bring, including God forbid a tv deal, that money can then go to keeping players in the league so instead of League 1 being too financially good to turn down the Championship is then the minimum so the quality of player staying in the league goes up, transfer fees go up because suddenly English clubs have to do more than click their fingers to get players, performances in europe improve bringing in more money, attendances across the league increase because suddenly there's internationals coming to town, all this snowballs and eventually you get to a level where the standard of player is such that the international squad has a good percentage of it currently playing in the league. All this brings up the standard of football across the country, means kids have regular access to their heroes, kids aren't being shipped off away from home with no education at 16.

    So yeah people going to games has a huge impact on the quality of players besides all the other benefits it would being to lots of different areas of Ireland not just the league.

    Nobody expects a league like the EPL but something on par with the likes of Sweden, Denmark or Scotland isn't out of the question.
    8-10 wrote: »
    Between the national team and the level of the LOI, my god do you even read the context of my posts. I'm saying it's a stepping stone. If the best players are to go on and be internationals I think they will anyway, either in a top class LOI league or by moving to a better class league anyway.


    Both Stevens and Coleman were in the English system for years before getting a full cap, same with Matt Doherty.

    Yeah it's great there is a league here but the internationals are rarely plucked straight out of it.

    If LOI was on par with a top league what I'm saying is you'd still have the likes of Coleman and Stevens picked for Ireland, as it stands I think the best players the LOI have to offer will still go on and make it at international level

    Oh my God do you even read the context of my posts? I was pointing out it's more than a stepping stone, there's a strong link between it and the national team, there's players in our national squad that without it wouldn't be playing football at all without the league, that's not a stepping stone, it's way above that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Oh my God do you even read the context of my posts? I was pointing out it's more than a stepping stone, there's a strong link between it and the national team, there's players in our national squad that without it wouldn't be playing football at all without the league, that's not a stepping stone, it's way above that.

    Nobody is saying anything about there being no league though? There is a league. Multiple divisions. And they're not going away

    The question is how much does the level/quality of the league matter to the National team?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Majority of players go to England before they get near LOI. That's not gooing to change. Only worse it'll get. I support my local junior team in Desmond league go to alot of games does this count or do I have to support a LOI team


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Majority of players go to England before they get near LOI. That's not gooing to change. Only worse it'll get. I support my local junior team in Desmond league go to alot of games does this count or do I have to support a LOI team

    That's already changing so you're showing your complete ignorance there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    That's already changing so you're showing your complete ignorance there.

    There's less players going overall. The majority of ones that are get scouted at underage.facts . Bar the odd few.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    I think a lot of people, me included, do not have the time to go to actual games.

    So sitting at home, I can turn on the TV and watch some nice goals etc.

    That's grand yeah. I just wouldn't really consider that to be supporting in the true sense of the word.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    8-10 wrote: »
    Would they be happy if we all went to games, league got as popular as the Premier League everyone builds 50,000 seater stadia and locals can't go anymore because of the amount of foreign fans flying in for every game and pushing up prices?

    I don't get what the endgame is. Surely if it gets significantly better it will just attract the same type of supporters people who go to games now seem to dislike....why isn't it already considered ideal if the only people who go are these true pure soccer fans who aren't there for the selfies but for the love of the sport as a whole?

    It's an easy scapegoat tbf, blaming the lack of support from Irish people for whatever reason instead of looking at the total and utter mismanagement by the FAI, LOI execs and indeed the clubs themselves in self-promotion.

    Honestly wonder do any of the clubs or the execs have a single marketing person with an ounce of talent.

    It's the same with the national team, interest is way down and attendances are being supplemented by free tickets to schools, this is not a new thing.

    But sure Delaney and his ilk would rather open an astro-turf pitch down in Kerry than actually do what he's been paid exorbitant amounts of money to do, which is manage and promote the sport in the country.

    So instead of knocking fans for supporting Liverpool, Arsenal, whoever - throw your ire at those who run the sport here cos they're the ones letting you down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Omackeral wrote: »
    That's grand yeah. I just wouldn't really consider that to be supporting in the true sense of the word.

    Doesn't really matter though what you consider it. That's what fans do, they watch games and support their team. You can even listen to the radio commentary and support the team playing, you don't even have to watch. There's a blind man who goes to Anfield and has his mate describe to him what happens on the pitch.

    I feel closer to Liverpool FC from my living room than any LOI side I've seen live. Others will be the complete opposite.

    But we all experience games differently. I've honestly gotten really into a game before with radio commentary alone


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    There's less players going overall. The majority of ones that are get scouted at underage.facts . Bar the odd few.

    There are underage players turning down the option of joining English academies in favour of staying and playing for LOI underage teams. So yeah it's changing already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    To be honest 8-10, going to games pretty much is supporting a team. I'm not saying that for any moral superiority. I'm not saying it as a pro-LOI thing. Basically, you're literally supporting a team by paying in and shouting for them. Financially and from an encouragement POV. That applies to any team anywhere.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Necro wrote: »
    It's an easy scapegoat tbf, blaming the lack of support from Irish people for whatever reason instead of looking at the total and utter mismanagement by the FAI, LOI execs and indeed the clubs themselves in self-promotion.

    Honestly wonder do any of the clubs or the execs have a single marketing person with an ounce of talent.

    It's the same with the national team, interest is way down and attendances are being supplemented by free tickets to schools, this is not a new thing.

    But sure Delaney and his ilk would rather open an astro-turf pitch down in Kerry than actually do what he's been paid exorbitant amounts of money to do, which is manage and promote the sport in the country.

    So instead of knocking fans for supporting Liverpool, Arsenal, whoever - throw your ire at those who run the sport here cos they're the ones letting you down.

    I think you'll find LOI fans were the ones having a go at Delaney years ago and getting told to shut up by "fans" of English teams


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    There are underage players turning down the option of joining English academies in favour of staying and playing for LOI underage teams. So yeah it's changing already.

    Is that because of the good attendances?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Omackeral wrote: »
    To be honest 8-10, going to games pretty much is supporting a team. I'm not saying that for any moral superiority. I'm not saying it as a pro-LOI thing. Basically, you're literally supporting a team by paying in and shouting for them. Financially and from an encouragement POV. That applies to any team anywhere.

    You pay for Sky/BT sports and they benefit financially too. But it's more than just financial support you give. There's a sense of community, discussions you have with work colleagues etc. Hanging flags, stickers on your car, social media

    I feel a lot of pride supporting my club, particularly the past couple of seasons


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    8-10 wrote: »
    Is that because of the good attendances?

    Partially yeah. I know in rovers underage teams half of them at least could be in the English system just now but because Rovers are one of the better attended clubs and have a fan who is willing to loan the club money in the hope it leads to increased attendance they have been able to afford to invest in facilities and coaching staff and negotiate deals with schools to help keep these young players in Ireland. If the attendances were higher though a lot more could be invested and a lot more good could be done for the young footballers in Ireland both in football terms and mentally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Partially yeah. I know in rovers underage teams half of them at least could be in the English system just now but because Rovers are one of the better attended clubs and have a fan who is willing to loan the club money in the hope it leads to increased attendance they have been able to afford to invest in facilities and coaching staff and negotiate deals with schools to help keep these young players in Ireland. If the attendances were higher though a lot more could be invested and a lot more good could be done for the young footballers in Ireland both in football terms and mentally.

    I agree with that. And id be happy to see it happen and get better and better

    I just think it they're good enough they'll still make it regardless of the level of the domestic league. There's many examples of that, including many outside of Ireland


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    I think you'll find LOI fans were the ones having a go at Delaney years ago and getting told to shut up by "fans" of English teams

    Why do you have to be so condescending to people who like different things to you???

    Part of the reason I don't follow the LOI is because of the gombeens in charge.

    Another part of it is because I take serious issue with the exclusivity thing that the clubs have going now right down to under 13, cherry-picking talent from the local clubs (the real grassroots) and not allowing them to play with their mates in their formative years. It's elitist and stupid, imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    8-10 wrote: »
    I agree with that. And id be happy to see it happen and get better and better

    I just think it they're good enough they'll still make it regardless of the level of the domestic league. There's many examples of that, including many outside of Ireland

    History hasn't backed that up though. Many seriously talented footballers haven't made it because the system currently involves players moving away from home at 15/16 with barely a junior cert to go live in digs in a foreign country on not very much money in the hope they'll be in the 5% or whatever ridiculously small percentage it is that gets offered a pro deal and then the even smaller percentage that gets offered a second deal. There are serious mental health issues with doing that to yound people, not just the leaving everything at so young but the pressure to make it, the boredom is a huge problem too and all this leads to a lot of seriously talented football falling into depression, turning to drink, drugs, gambling.
    The only way to stop that is to have a strong league so players can stay home, get an education, play at a good level, get good coaching in good facilities and play competitive football which will not only benefit their development but will also mean that when they're older they can make the right decision for themselves and make a move that's good for them. This is the system that the Scandinavians have, the Belgians have, the Dutch have, why don't we have it? Because dave would rather sit in the pub and call the LOI ****e instead of supporting it thus starving the next generation of footballers in this country of support thus meaning we heavily rely on another country to do the work for us. That's just wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Necro wrote: »
    Why do you have to be so condescending to people who like different things to you???

    Part of the reason I don't follow the LOI is because of the gombeens in charge.

    Another part of it is because I take serious issue with the exclusivity thing that the clubs have going now right down to under 13, cherry-picking talent from the local clubs (the real grassroots) and not allowing them to play with their mates in their formative years. It's elitist and stupid, imo.

    How is pointing out that LOI fans were the first ones the be anti Delaney condescending?

    If by the gombeens in charge you mean the FAI, than you supporting the LOI is giving them the finger if anything.

    Yeah because that's not exactly what the likes of Kevin's, Joeys, etc have been doing for decades already. I know a guy who traveled from sligo to play for a DDSL club for god sake, if anything the LOI underage structure stops what you're complaining about a bit. Most LOI clubs have partnerships with local clubs too to allow players to play with their mates for longer too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    8-10 wrote: »
    You pay for Sky/BT sports and they benefit financially too. But it's more than just financial support you give. There's a sense of community, discussions you have with work colleagues etc. Hanging flags, stickers on your car, social media

    I feel a lot of pride supporting my club, particularly the past couple of seasons

    God I hope Liverpool sink like a stone next season. My club. What is your relationship with Liverpool. You picked them. Because they were good. "my club". Your club is Cabinteely my friend.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    How is pointing out that LOI fans were the first ones the be anti Delaney condescending?

    If by the gombeens in charge you mean the FAI, than you supporting the LOI is giving them the finger if anything.

    Yeah because that's not exactly what the likes of Kevin's, Joeys, etc have been doing for decades already. I know a guy who traveled from sligo to play for a DDSL club for god sake, if anything the LOI underage structure stops what you're complaining about a bit. Most LOI clubs have partnerships with local clubs too to allow players to play with their mates for longer too.

    Not where I'm from.

    Playing for DDSL does not stop that lad from Sligo playing for his local club, they're a development squad - it's not the same thing. A young 13 year old has to sign with Dundalk to play with them as I've been led to believe, barring him from playing with his local club - that's stupid imo.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    How is pointing out that LOI fans were the first ones the be anti Delaney condescending?

    If by the gombeens in charge you mean the FAI, than you supporting the LOI is giving them the finger if anything.

    Yeah because that's not exactly what the likes of Kevin's, Joeys, etc have been doing for decades already. I know a guy who traveled from sligo to play for a DDSL club for god sake, if anything the LOI underage structure stops what you're complaining about a bit. Most LOI clubs have partnerships with local clubs too to allow players to play with their mates for longer too.

    It doesn't help far from dublin I think. In Cork it is causing issues, especially the gap. When you're not wanted by city at 14,16,18 a lot of guys don't go back to their original club or drop out altogether. I think it's hard on the local clubs who work hard to produce a talent to see them be taken with little credit. I think the LOI clubs could credit the local academies more.

    The people supporting English teams never saw the Delaney issue because to them it was rosey, at that level he was signing songs and buying pints telling them about the problem child.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    Necro wrote: »
    Not where I'm from.

    Playing for DDSL does not stop that lad from Sligo playing for his local club, they're a development squad - it's not the same thing. A young 13 year old has to sign with Dundalk to play with them as I've been led to believe, barring him from playing with his local club - that's stupid imo.

    What?! How can you be playing in the DDSL and for your local club? That is against the rules?

    Do you have any idea how grassroots works?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Necro wrote: »
    Not where I'm from.

    Playing for DDSL does not stop that lad from Sligo playing for his local club, they're a development squad - it's not the same thing. A young 13 year old has to sign with Dundalk to play with them as I've been led to believe, barring him from playing with his local club - that's stupid imo.

    Playing for a DDSL club quite literally does stop him playing for his local club. Also means he spends a lot of time travelling when he could be hanging around with his mates.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »

    The people supporting English teams never saw the Delaney issue because to them it was rosey, at that level he was signing songs and buying pints telling them about the problem child.

    Generalise much? I don't support an LOI team but I've been crowing about Delaney and his ilk for years myself, I refuse to part with any of my money to support that organisation, or any branch of it until they're all gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    What?! How can you be playing in the DDSL and for your local club? That is against the rules?

    Do you have any idea how grassroots works?

    I've misunderstood you I think - do you mean the sligo lad could play for his local sligo side and the sligo representative team?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    Necro wrote: »
    Generalise much? I don't support an LOI team but I've been crowing about Delaney and his ilk for years myself, I refuse to part with any of my money to support that organisation, or any branch of it until they're all gone.

    Like myself, glad to hear it and fair play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    Necro wrote: »
    Generalise much? I don't support an LOI team but I've been crowing about Delaney and his ilk for years myself, I refuse to part with any of my money to support that organisation, or any branch of it until they're all gone.

    Like myself, glad to hear it and fair play.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    What?! How can you be playing in the DDSL and for your local club? That is against the rules?

    Do you have any idea how grassroots works?
    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Playing for a DDSL club quite literally does stop him playing for his local club. Also means he spends a lot of time travelling when he could be hanging around with his mates.

    Nope, you're changing the argument now, both of you.

    If the Sligo lad signs with a DDSL club then obviously he can't play with his local team, but what can you do about that.

    DDSL have a development squad that tour the country, play in stuff like the Kennedy Cup etc, that's separate from the local club and he can play in that AND for his local club (although if he's playing for a Sligo club he'll be on the Sligo/Leitrim team)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    It doesn't help far from dublin I think. In Cork it is causing issues, especially the gap. When you're not wanted by city at 14,16,18 a lot of guys don't go back to their original club or drop out altogether. I think it's hard on the local clubs who work hard to produce a talent to see them be taken with little credit. I think the LOI clubs could credit the local academies more.

    The people supporting English teams never saw the Delaney issue because to them it was rosey, at that level he was signing songs and buying pints telling them about the problem child.

    That's the system the FAI have put in place for whatever reason. Most Dublin clubs have got around it by having partnerships and the gap teams in the DDSL and all teams should do the same but the system has only been in place a few years and the FAI haven't done much to help the clubs work out the problems so it'll take a while to get it running smoothly as clubs get better at spotting and solving the problems.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    8-10 wrote: »
    You pay for Sky/BT sports and they benefit financially too. But it's more than just financial support you give. There's a sense of community, discussions you have with work colleagues etc. Hanging flags, stickers on your car, social media

    Well... you have me there I suppose.


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